Also soft Brexit was majority Remain opinion in 2017, two and half years later both sides had hardened.
Exactly that. In 2017 they were still upholding the referendum vote (whether you'd want to call it a soft exit or not). Once Labour turned their back on brexit they got punished comprehensively. Despite the combined might of the establishment - and contrary to the spin - the sides taken in the referendum remained pretty firm. Whilst the Tory landside was impressive, nobody was actually surprised.
Exactly that. In 2017 they were still upholding the referendum vote (whether you'd want to call it a soft exit or not). Once Labour turned their back on brexit they got punished comprehensively. Despite the combined might of the establishment - and contrary to the spin - the sides taken in the referendum remained pretty firm. Whilst the Tory landside was impressive, nobody was actually surprised.
It isn't, it's an utter embarrassment. Labour is finished, Starmer is pathetic.Looking at the link, she retweeted a link to an article that said this:
I am thick as fuck, how is that anti semetic?
They're not bringing 'jews' into anything. Israel is not representative of all 'jews'.Im not disagreeing with you, I think it’s weak but I can see why Jews are twitchy about left wing people bringing Jews into something and I can see why Labour are twitchy about letting things go no matter how small.
Nothing strong about it unless you think throwing your shadow cabinet under a bus in a vain attempt to impress a few blue ticks on twitter is that.Strong leadership. Unlike Boris lad who couldn’t get permission from the man he needed to sack to sack him after apparently taking his family for a death drive to test his eyes. The difference is so glaringly obvious even Dominic Cummings can see it while recovering from Covid. Apparently.
They're not bringing 'jews' into anything. Israel is not representative of all 'jews'.
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I quite like your posts as you’re usually pretty rational about things, but come on. As this thread has established, headline figures and the media have taken criticism of Israeli policy as an attack on Judaism for a while now, so there isn’t really an option when it comes to criticism without an instrument to conduct change.
“Systemic racism is a global issue,” she adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.”
I see your point but I find it utterly utterly depressing as Starmer hasn't even attempted to clarify the difference between antisemitism and legit criticism of American police (who happened to attend security training run by Israeli security forces) but nevertheless punish RLB.
This is what Peake said:
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I can’t believe he’s getting castigated by the left leaning of the party. I’m utterly convinced that my friends on that side of the party have no interest in any meaningful governing bringing with it accountability and responsibility. They only want a party that shout and whinges and maintains its purity of thought and the ability to always be correct in their own echo chamber. Governing is hard and means you have to win enough support to make changes to change things. Bloody hell. Labour are gonna do what they always do. One of my friends even used the tory lite crap again about starmer
I’m just asking for consistency - surely a reasonable quality in good leadership?
And they do that by being a consistent leader.A good leader is someone who develops a winning formula and team.
I don’t disagree about consistency. Who’s he not removed?And they do that by being a consistent leader.
You know, that was always my problem with Blair. Maybe I'm older, or have suffered enough with the alternatives, but I'd take that now ahead of what we have!One of my friends even used the tory lite crap again about starmer
It isn't, it's an utter embarrassment. Labour is finished, Starmer is pathetic.
I think it’s pretty simple. You have to look at where this started and the reasoning behind it. The far right in America first made the connection between Israeli training of the American police and the death of George Floyd. They did it purely to lay the seed that it’s the Jews fault. A classic attempt at divide and conquer. There’s section of white Americans who don’t like Jews or blacks or indeed any non white Christians, they think the way sections of the police treat minorities in America is fine as they’re non white Christians. For this reason they oppose the BLM protests and specifically the defund the police aspect of it. Answer, turn the protest away from the police and towards a section of society they don’t like, Jews. The whole incarnation of this story is to say the Jews did it and that’s why RLB had to go.
It’s a piccaninny, watermelon smiles, bank robbers, letterbox moment and it’s right she’s gone and I’m sorry but if you can’t accept that then I think you’ve lost the right to criticise Boris for some of the ridiculous things he’s promoted.
From KS’s point as well next time Boris says something stupid about a minority (and there will be a next time) it means that KS can rightly criticise that without the comeback of it was alright for RLB you hypocrite. Which again means that it’s right that she’s gone.
And they do that by being a consistent leader.
I don’t disagree about consistency. Who’s he not removed?
I wonder how Dom will feel when Boris gets shunted out holding the can for Cov-ID and replaced by Gove.
It was the not taking it down that ended up causing the sacking. You'd assume somebody closer to him would take it down automatically without wanting a chat first. Consistency ought to be easy to apply.and should someone else on his team more closely aligned to him do something similar we'll see if he is.
So far the RLB thing is the only AS related issue he's had to deal with among his shadow cabinet, so he can't be considered inconsistent. It's how he reacts next time where we'll see if he's consistent.
I can’t believe he’s getting castigated by the left leaning of the party. I’m utterly convinced that my friends on that side of the party have no interest in any meaningful governing bringing with it accountability and responsibility. They only want a party that shout and whinges and maintains its purity of thought and the ability to always be correct in their own echo chamber. Governing is hard and means you have to win enough support to make changes to change things. Bloody hell. Labour are gonna do what they always do. One of my friends even used the tory lite crap again about starmer
You think the actress gave that interview just to say the jews did it?
The irony is that the far stretch links people are making is way more mental than the "conspiracy" the story is about, which actually has something behind it.
This is just a perspective, and I may be making some strong and possibly unfair assertions, but the way I see the whole rumbling of antisemitism within the Labour party can be split into those factions who (personally) recognise the post-war state of Isreal but have an issue with Zionism, and those whose position is built on racial or religious grounds and which can appear as outright antisemitism.
Having lived in Isreal for two years, I can tell you that there's a large number of Israelis who are anti-Zionism. And whilst most of these probably support the continued occupation of the Golan Heights as a strategic defence against the provocations of Syria, as well as see areas of the West Bank as disputed territory, they have absolute disdain for the Zionists (and their backers) who have built settlements in previously controlled land such as the Gaza Strip or in the disputed territories. Such Zionists tend to be American Jewish fundamentalists. The more reasoned of Israelis, whilst wanting to ensure that their post-war agreed lands are protected, would probably find themselves aligned to the moderates within the Labour party.
But it seems to me that over the last 20 years also there is a new brand of politics in this area which is driven by a core membership that is more than simply Anti-Zionist: they don't want a state of Isreal is in any form, and their posturing and speeches most certainly come across as racist - we only have to look at our own Westminster representation to see this.
And so, as ever, what seems a perfectly fair, reasoned debate and position grounded in politics becomes deniable and deliberately closed down through the virtue-signalling and conflation of positions and beliefs, and leads to the action that Stamier had to take on the step to eradicating the party of its racist underbelly.
Some polls taken from Labour members showed Corbyn as the most popular Labour leader ever. Predictably, Blair was v unpopular too. It does seem that some sections of the Labour membership view the party was a campaign group rather than a party of Government.
This is anecdotal, but on Facebook, I’ve certainly seen a few radical left wingers post the links between Israeli security and US police training. The subtle implication is that Israel is to blame for US police brutality. Which I would suggest is subtly antisemitic.
I think that’s a great summary actually - it goes back really to the early 80’s from the Livingston era of which of course Corbyn is linked to
Jews are seen as the epitome of white capitalist supremacy and Israel’s link to the US makes it a figure of hate for the hard left
This is just a perspective, and I may be making some strong and possibly unfair assertions, but the way I see the whole rumbling of antisemitism within the Labour party can be split into those factions who (personally) recognise the post-war state of Isreal but have an issue with Zionism, and those whose position is built on racial or religious grounds and which can appear as outright antisemitism.
Having lived in Isreal for two years, I can tell you that there's a large number of Israelis who are anti-Zionism. And whilst most of these probably support the continued occupation of the Golan Heights as a strategic defence against the provocations of Syria, as well as see areas of the West Bank as disputed territory, they have absolute disdain for the Zionists (and their backers) who have built settlements in previously controlled land such as the Gaza Strip or in the disputed territories. Such Zionists tend to be American Jewish fundamentalists. The more reasoned of Israelis, whilst wanting to ensure that their post-war agreed lands are protected, would probably find themselves aligned to the moderates within the Labour party.
But it seems to me that over the last 20 years also there is a new brand of politics in this area which is driven by a core membership that is more than simply Anti-Zionist: they don't want a state of Isreal is in any form, and their posturing and speeches most certainly come across as racist - we only have to look at our own Westminster representation to see this.
And so, as ever, what seems a perfectly fair, reasoned debate and position grounded in politics becomes deniable and deliberately closed down through the virtue-signalling and conflation of positions and beliefs, and leads to the action that Stamier had to take on the step to eradicating the party of its racist underbelly.
So why don't Israelis stop training us police how to fuck people up if they don't like it mentioned?
While there is an element of truth in that you can hardly say the far-right are welcoming and accepting of Jews. It's a problem at both extreme ends of the spectrum.
As you’ve lived there and have more insight than most of us, how do you see the Israel/Palestine conflict and how support for either seems to align with right/left politically.
Genuinely interested to get some insight from someone with more firsthand experience. Thanks
Mr Deflection is back again.Are you as passionate about discrimination violence and torture by say the brutal Chavez regime and the racist despot of Cuba? You don’t seem to be as so interested?
Strange
The neck restraint policy was in place before any Israeli training was given to Minneapolis police. It is also unclear if the officers involved had even attended such conferences given by Israeli security forces.
In short, it’s a red herring.
The time and place to bring up such seminars by Israeli security is in a wider review of US policing and police brutality as a whole.
FactCheck: did Israeli secret service teach Floyd police to kneel on neck?
I don’t think that although at the same time I don’t know her reasoning but that wouldn’t be my go to. It’s far more likely that she didn’t spend the two minutes it would have taken on google to find the origins of the story and the original intended use of the story. So basically I put it down to naivety. Again something RLB shouldn’t have been culpable to. So she had to go.You think the actress gave that interview just to say the jews did it?
The irony is that the far stretch links people are making is way more mental than the "conspiracy" the story is about, which actually has something behind it.
Mr Deflection is back again.
I’m passionate about discrimination in all contexts - are you?
I believe this is called a deflection
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