Ratings v Derby (1 Viewer)

[DannyThomas_1981]

It's really interesting on here.

Anyone defending Max is immediately accused of over-hyping and being part of a cult for some unknown reason by the same suspects who are determined to deride and criticise Max at every opportunity. The charge is that we see Max as the next Shearer/Premier League superstar/successor to Henry.

I don't think that's the case at all. But I do think the supporters of Max see a player who has always stepped up and make a very valuable contribution to the team when required and that a lot of the criticism is wide of the mark.

It's also interesting that even when Max has a great game - that the underlying criticism is still there - i.e. he's never been able to do it over 5-6 games. As if Max is expected in his lone striker role to dominate all defences in this division game after game. I don't think any of our strikers can do that - I'm a huge fan of Godden but even he wasn't dominating every game in L1 when we generally had all of the possession.

You can question all of our strikers at this level to be honest but I also think that God/Max and Walker bring different qualities to the team that sometimes we should appreciate more. Some of the criticism of what Max doesn't bring should be more balanced vs. what he does bring to the side. Similar to God/Walker, Walker for example isn't the hardest worker from what I've seen so far and is not suited to the lone front man role - but he looks like a clinical finisher when he has the opportunity.

 

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[TomRad85]

It's really interesting on here.

Anyone defending Max is immediately accused of over-hyping and being part of a cult for some unknown reason

I know its not Biamous fault.. but you really don't see it?

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[ccfc1234]

It's really interesting on here.

Anyone defending Max is immediately accused of over-hyping and being part of a cult for some unknown reason by the same suspects who are determined to deride and criticise Max at every opportunity. The charge is that we see Max as the next Shearer/Premier League superstar/successor to Henry.

I don't think that's the case at all. But I do think the supporters of Max see a player who has always stepped up and make a very valuable contribution to the team when required and that a lot of the criticism is wide of the mark.

It's also interesting that even when Max has a great game - that the underlying criticism is still there - i.e. he's never been able to do it over 5-6 games. As if Max is expected in his lone striker role to dominate all defences in this division game after game. I don't think any of our strikers can do that - I'm a huge fan of Godden but even he wasn't dominating every game in L1 when we generally had all of the possession.

You can question all of our strikers at this level to be honest but I also think that God/Max and Walker bring different qualities to the team that sometimes we should appreciate more. Some of the criticism of what Max doesn't bring should be more balanced vs. what he does bring to the side. Similar to God/Walker, Walker for example isn't the hardest worker from what I've seen so far and is not suited to the lone front man role - but he looks like a clinical finisher when he has the opportunity.

Football to some extent is a mirror of wider society. Look at politics today, Brexit voters = allegedly all racists, anyone who does not vocally hate Trump, the same. CNN viewers - all allegedly obsessed with intersectionality.

Regrettably, a significant number of people have become entrenched in their beliefs, even in the face of new evidence. While addressing subjects like Max, it's of next to no concern, in wider society this sort of fundermentslist 'flat earth' type thinking can be problematic for social cohesion.

For this reason it's probably best not to be entirely shocked by or rise to some of the fixed opinions and passive aggressive praise evident in some contributors posts. What is noticeable is how some objective fans who with good reason had reservations that Max could step up again, have adjusted their thinking as he plays well, with a bit of consistency.

This is an opinion forum and were all City fans at the end of the day, but I do understand it is frustrating to read the same types of comments that appear to bear little resemblance to what takes place on the pitch.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

I still wouldn’t sign him

Because of his ability, or because of the potential cost in wages ? I think he looks a quality player and we can't rely on Kelly playing enough games. I'd sign him (as long as we can also get other positions improved too. Mainly left wing back, centre back and striker (s). Plus a keeper.

 

[cc84cov]

With hyam he's clearly had an Indifferent season.. Im actually shit scared everytime the ball goes to him at the moment I have no clue why, just seems like his confidence is a bit shot.

He did make some key interceptions today so his defending was alot better, but with the ball at his feet it's a worry atm

That left side is the weak link Hyam & mccallum needs to be finished after this season

 

[Orca]

Other than the fact that some people just want a scapegoat all of the time, I've never understood the critisism of Max. First and foremost, every time he pulls on the shirt, he's always given 100% and never hidden, even when things aren't going his way. As a fan, minimum requirement for any player is to always give their best. IMO, Max has always done that.

As it turns out, he's come from a pub league in France to be leading the line for a struggling club in one of the biggest leagues in the world. There are plenty of commentators and former pros who have been impressed by him this season. Now granted, his goal return isn't stellar, but let's be honest, if he was scoring every other week, there's no way he'd be playing for us.

I'm happy to enjoy him for what he is. Comfortably our best player today. McFazdean also excellent.

 

[johnwillomagic]

I think the marks on Wilson in the majority are a tad harsh he did make a very good save - I'd have him at about 6.5 today.
Still think he'll keep the jersey for next game and did think he may lose it to Marosi today so MR also sees something in him.

 

[Otis]

I like Biamou. Still don't think he is Championship standard though.

I do admire his energy and effort, but he lacks quality.

Definitely have him in the side before Bakayoko though any day of the week.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I like Biamou. Still don't think he is Championship standard though.

I do admire his energy and effort, but he lacks quality.

Definitely have him in the side before Bakayoko though any day of the week.

It was great he went to our church and we got to know him when he was first here. He was wonderful with my son and gave him one of his shirts. He’s a softly spoken giant who has tried to make the most of his talent

 

[Otis]

It was great he went to our church and we got to know him when he was first here. He was wonderful with my son and gave him one of his shirts. He’s a softly spoken giant who has tried to make the most of his talent

Yes, undoubtedly. I do think the Championship is a step too far for him though, to be anything other than just a bit player. That's if we want to do okay in this league.

Always said I like him though and I do disagree with the 1-10 games that Grendel has alluded to. We certainly don't get close to 1 in 3 or 4 though.

Always works really hard and you get an outstanding performance from him maybe once in every 6 matches or so.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yes, undoubtedly. I do think the Championship is a step too far for him though, to be anything other than just a bit player. That's if we want to do okay in this league.

Always said I like him though and I do disagree with the 1-10 games that Grendel has alluded to. We certainly don't get close to 1 in 3 or 4 though.

Always works really hard and you get an outstanding performance from him maybe once in every 6 matches or so.

Yeah I agree and I reckon he would too

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yeah I agree and I reckon he would too

It was also an amazing privilege to be at his baptism and meet his family who were so proud of him

 

[stevefloyd]

You talk rot to be honest. You really are a very boring person and shows no interest in the fact we have won a crucial game.

Instead of enjoying a fantastic win with 3 points he tries to point score over you...tiresome!

 

[stevefloyd]

Also has hyam lost weight? Looks thinner than last year, might be imagining it like

Its the worry

 

[shmmeee]

I’m buzzing from the result and in such a good mood but if you think Max was man of the match over O’Hare then I’ll find you make friends with you, get in with your family make, make your wife fall in love with me and leave you then make your kids call me dad instead of you. You’ll end up with a restraining order because we’ll make some shit up about you then I’ll take your kids home and away every game so you can never see city again.

Scored the winner. I don’t make the rules.

The stats say Ben Wilson is one of the best goalkeepers we’ve ever had

No they don’t. What are you on about?

You should probably avoid stats conversations you don’t seem to understand them.

 

[larry_david]

People bang on about Max and a certain poster loves bringing up his 4 year career with us but let's talk here and now.

Last 5 games he's scored vs Derby, effectively forced the own goal against boro. Won the pen against Brentford and intercepted the goalie mistake for walkers second goal. So that's 4 involvements in the last 5 games. In fact all of our goals he's been involved in. I don't care that against morecambe 4 years ago he missed a sitter. I care that he was put through one on one and had the pace, control and composure to score it.

 

[Jagmannn]

Max _ Mcfaz _ James _ Hyam...All looked good today, that is because we played a even matched side.& we came out on top .....if we had played a promotion playing team we would be moaning about there ability against them .... but that is what the seasons about ,just make sure you win the winnable games & try your best against the others .........chuffed to bits with the 3 points...........love seeing the forum talking about next season team selection ......
Play Up Sky Blues

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Dunno why the cult have woken up, it was his second goal in 20 games. Can’t wait for his next good performance on the final day of the season

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Scored the winner. I don’t make the rules.



No they don’t. What are you on about?

You should probably avoid stats conversations you don’t seem to understand them.

They do tbf, didn’t various stats have him on par with Jan Oblak?

 

[shmmeee]

They do tbf, didn’t various stats have him on par with Jan Oblak?

You can cherry pick a stat without context that’s the same and go “ha isn’t that funny these two have the same stat”. That’s not the same as saying they’re as good all round in their position as each other.

Im the same height as some NBA players. That’s an interesting fact not an application to the hall of fame.

Wilson has played about ten games. He’s going to have outlier stats

 

[Deleted member 11652]

You can cherry pick a stat without context that’s the same and go “ha isn’t that funny these two have the same stat”. That’s not the same as saying they’re as good all round in their position as each other.

Im the same height as some NBA players. That’s an interesting fact not an application to the hall of fame.

Wilson has played about ten games. He’s going to have outlier stats

I think that’s Grendel’s point isn’t it

 

[shmmeee]

I think that’s Grendel’s point isn’t it

No Grendel as always is pointless. Some people like looking at stats, Grendel likes trolling, that’s as deep as it goes.

 

[stupot07]

You can cherry pick a stat without context that’s the same and go “ha isn’t that funny these two have the same stat”. That’s not the same as saying they’re as good all round in their position as each other.

Im the same height as some NBA players. That’s an interesting fact not an application to the hall of fame.

Wilson has played about ten games. He’s going to have outlier stats

You're right.

Wilson is statistically the better keeper, but that doesn't take into account the context of who we played, the niavity of us when we were first promoted, new players gelling, etc.

Anyway, I thought it was because Giles wasn't playing anymore lol





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[stupot07]

Dunno why the cult have woken up, it was his second goal in 20 games. Can’t wait for his next good performance on the final day of the season

Whilst we're on about cherry picking stats, you have cheery picked from his goal against Rotherham to include the 11 goalless games between that and his forest goal to make him look as bad as possible.

I could flip it and say
He's scored 2 in 9, not great but better, especially if I choose my stats for walker and godden to suit my purpose,

Biamou 2 in last 9
Walker 2 in last 10
Godden 1 in last 10
O'Hare 1 in last 34

I'm not trying to big up max, just more about how stats can be skewed to suit ones purposes.

However looking at that, thats pretty shocking from our 4 main attacking players which ever way you look at it.

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[Grendel]

Because of his ability, or because of the potential cost in wages ? I think he looks a quality player and we can't rely on Kelly playing enough games. I'd sign him (as long as we can also get other positions improved too. Mainly left wing back, centre back and striker (s). Plus a keeper.

Wage costs. Also reliability to stay fit. His record screams Reda Johnson - we can’t afford an expensive wage on the treatment table and have to fund a striker as a priority

 

[Deleted member 11652]

Whilst we're on about cherry picking stats, you have cheery picked from his goal against Rotherham to include the 11 goalless games between that and his forest goal to make him look as bad as possible.

I could flip it and say
He's scored 2 in 9, not great but better, especially if I choose my stats for walker and godden to suit my purpose,

Biamou 2 in last 9
Walker 2 in last 10
Godden 1 in last 10
O'Hare 1 in last 34

I'm not trying to big up max, just more about how stats can be skewed to suit ones purposes.

However looking at that, thats pretty shocking from our 4 main attacking players which ever way you look at it.

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How about 22 in 106 for Biamou and 19 in 47 for Godden?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Pask was really good. Establishing himself as a useful squad player.

Yep. If he could be relied upon to do that regularly could reduce the requirement to bring in the extra centre back.

 

[stupot07]

How about 22 in 106 for Biamou and 19 in 47 for Godden?

Or Biamou 25 in 57 starts

Godden is a far better striker, never said he wasn't. We desperately need him in the team right now, all I was doing was showing how stats can be manipulated.

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[Grendel]

Or Biamou 25 in 57 starts

Godden is a far better striker, never said he wasn't. We desperately need him in the team right now, all I was doing was showing how stats can be manipulated.

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biamou Hasn’t scored 25 in 57 starts

 

[stupot07]

biamou Hasn’t scored 25 in 57 starts

According to soccer base he has

League 43 (45) 13 goals
FA cup 8 (3) 5 goals
League cup 2 (1) 1 goal
Other cup/JPT 4 (3) 6 goals

Total 57 (52) apps 25 goals.

But like other stats it's flawed because he's scored form the subs bench. Just showing how things can be massaged to suit your argument.

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[Grendel]

According to soccer base he has

League 43 (45) 13 goals
FA cup 8 (3) 5 goals
League cup 2 (1) 1 goal
Other cup/JPT 4 (3) 6 goals

Total 57 (52) apps 25 goals.

But like other stats it's flawed because he's scored form the subs bench. Just showing how things can be massaged to suit your argument.

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Well it’s not flawed it’s wrong as he has scored as a sub so the goals aren’t from starts and the one competition isn’t recognised in the recorded stats

 

[Evo1883]

Whilst we're on about cherry picking stats, you have cheery picked from his goal against Rotherham to include the 11 goalless games between that and his forest goal to make him look as bad as possible.

I could flip it and say
He's scored 2 in 9, not great but better, especially if I choose my stats for walker and godden to suit my purpose,

Biamou 2 in last 9
Walker 2 in last 10
Godden 1 in last 10
O'Hare 1 in last 34

I'm not trying to big up max, just more about how stats can be skewed to suit ones purposes.

However looking at that, thats pretty shocking from our 4 main attacking players which ever way you look at it.

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I've been through the godden stats with you... It was 4 in 10 before injury and came back played 5 a couple of which he played less than 20 minutes I believe and was clearly carrying still then went off injured for longer.

I think the 5 games upon return of injury are a bit harsh to judge him on tbh.

He also has more assists than Max this season

I have absolutely no doubt godden would score 15 goals in this division, he's too intelligent not too

He has 4 goals in 1032 minutes, a goal every 258 minutes, whilst playing mostly on his own and whilst struggling with a niggle for some of it, he was basically on a goal every other game before he had his first injury every 206 minutes

Biamou a goal every 413 minutes

Walker a goal every 251 minutes

Il give biamou his due, he would score 10 goals in a season at his current rate


I'm not trying to argue with you stu..

I already accept he's here next season as 3rd or 4th choice

 

[Esoterica]

I've been through the godden stats with you... It was 4 in 10 before injury and came back played 5 a couple of which he played less than 20 minutes I believe and was clearly carrying still then went off injured for longer.

I think the 5 games upon return of injury are a bit harsh to judge him on tbh.

He also has more assists than Max this season

I have absolutely no doubt godden would score 15 goals in this division, he's too intelligent not too

He has 4 goals in 1032 minutes, a goal every 258 minutes, whilst playing mostly on his own and whilst struggling with a niggle for some of it

Biamou a goal every 413 minutes

Walker a goal every 251 minutes

That equates to Biamou scoring 10 goals over the course of a full season. How lucky we are to have a 3rd or 4th choice striker capable of 10 goals in the Championship with the 2nd lowest budget in the league and in our first season back there!

 

[Evo1883]

That equates to Biamou scoring 10 goals over the course of a full season. How lucky we are to have a 3rd or 4th choice striker capable of 10 goals in the Championship with the 2nd lowest budget in the league and in our first season back there!

It does, that's if he played 90 minutes every match for 46 matches...

Godden pre injury was on for a 20 goal season. His rate now says 16, I think between 15 and 20 is a reasonable expectation fully fit

Same for walker... I think the club needs to add 1 more striker if I'm honest.. It's best for budget management

 

[Esoterica]

It does, that's if he played 90 minutes every match for 46 matches...

Thanks for clarifying what a 'full season' is. We can probably round him up to 15 goals though because he was clearly playing with a niggle through many of the games. You not counting penalties won as assists btw?