Petition To check legality of CCFC purchase to the FL (1 Viewer)

[Evo1883]

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

i didnt start this im putting it here incase anybody wants to check it out,it was posted on CCFC Facebook page (unofficial page)

 

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[Evo1883]

has been over 1200 people sign this morning alone ,do your bit people ,even if it amounts to jack ,then at least you can say you tried

 

[wal3590]

Surely the FL will be very concerned about the negativity of us fans towards SISU.. Don't go anywhere yet Mr Haskell

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Haskell himself, one of the losing bidders, has said he has no problem with the legality of the process, so not sure this is an avenue that'd work.

 

[Delboycov]

Signed and shared on facebook.etc...Very impressive numbers in just a couple of hours. The way I look at it, trying to do something about an issue that has frustrated the hell out of me is better than doing nothing at all...Not a dig at anyone btw.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Signed. Over 1,500 now.

 

[Samo]

Just signed. It's all we can do. For what it's worth I will email the FL again, and possibly Sky Sports and a few daily newspapers. Pressure on the FL is now our only hope.

 

[grego_gee]

Haskell himself, one of the losing bidders, has said he has no problem with the legality of the process, so not sure this is an avenue that'd work.

We will probably end up with 10000 signing this petition.
Will that prove how wrong SISU are? or how wrong the 10000 are?

imp:

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

We will probably end up with 10000 signing this petition.
Will that prove how wrong SISU are? or how wrong the 10000 are?

imp:

I'm not sure that petitions are designed to provide "proof".

However, if you want "proof of how wrong SISU are", I'd suggest you look at their actions and where they've got us.

Sadly, I imagine that more proof is on the way........

 

[Cranfield Sky Blue]

Signed and put on the missus Facebook! I don't have enough friend cos I am a CCFC fan!!!

 

[sky_blue_up_north]

Done and sent to all my FB friends, even if only 20% sign its a bonus.... also using Twitter, people forget how powerful these tools are....

 

[grego_gee]

I'm not sure that petitions are designed to provide "proof".

However, if you want "proof of how wrong SISU are", I'd suggest you look at their actions and where they've got us.

Sadly, I imagine that more proof is on the way........

I have to admit that despite the groundswell of opinion to the contrary, I feel relatively comfortable with their actions.
I am more than happy that we are now free of the original lease which was un-affordable.
If you are saying by where they've got us - do you mean our league position?
I'd agree, I think joy and Tim should have both scored more goals last season!

As for more proof on the way...
maybe your crystal ball is cloudier than mine!....
I am optimistic that the way is now clear for new negotiations to begin over a new lease or even ownership of the Arena.
What if SISU offer £50m to buy the whole freehold?

imp:

 

[Samo]

We will probably end up with 10000 signing this petition.
Will that prove how wrong SISU are? or how wrong the 10000 are?

imp:

It won't prove a thing. The intention is to apply a little pressure to the FL in the desperate hope that a little pressure might be enough. What else can we do? What's that famous qoute?; 'Evil Thrives When Good Men Do Nothing.' We all make our own choices.

 

[italiahorse]

Haskell himself, one of the losing bidders, has said he has no problem with the legality of the process, so not sure this is an avenue that'd work.

Where did he say it?

 

[Samo]

I have to admit that despite the groundswell of opinion to the contrary, I feel relatively comfortable with their actions.
I am more than happy that we are now free of the original lease which was un-affordable.
If you are saying by where they've got us - do you mean our league position?
I'd agree, I think joy and Tim should have both scored more goals last season!

As for more proof on the way...
maybe your crystal ball is cloudier than mine!....
I am optimistic that the way is now clear for new negotiations to begin over a new lease or even ownership of the Arena.
What if SISU offer £50m to buy the whole freehold?

imp:

Some news for you; we are NOT free of the original lease at all. Liquidation breaks it, admin does not. And you want these vultures to own the stadium? Have a look over your shoulder mate, you've clearly not not noticed that you're being fucked!

 

[grego_gee]

Some news for you; we are NOT free of the original lease at all. Liquidation breaks it, admin does not. And you want these vultures to own the stadium? Have a look over your shoulder mate, you've clearly not not noticed that you're being fucked!

Sorry but I think you will find that the lease clauses determine whether the lease is broken by entering administration.

I have not seen the lease clauses but the actions of all concerned leave little doubt that the lease is ended already!

That was the whole object of the exercise!

imp:

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I have to admit that despite the groundswell of opinion to the contrary, I feel relatively comfortable with their actions.
I am more than happy that we are now free of the original lease which was un-affordable.
If you are saying by where they've got us - do you mean our league position?
I'd agree, I think joy and Tim should have both scored more goals last season!

As for more proof on the way...
maybe your crystal ball is cloudier than mine!....
I am optimistic that the way is now clear for new negotiations to begin over a new lease or even ownership of the Arena.
What if SISU offer £50m to buy the whole freehold?

imp:

Ah all is well.

I thought that our fortunes were in some way related to our ownership, but now I realise that as Joy and Tim aren't in the first team these things are unrelated.

Thankyou for clearing that up.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

I have to admit that despite the groundswell of opinion to the contrary, I feel relatively comfortable with their actions.
I am more than happy that we are now free of the original lease which was un-affordable.
If you are saying by where they've got us - do you mean our league position?
I'd agree, I think joy and Tim should have both scored more goals last season!

As for more proof on the way...
maybe your crystal ball is cloudier than mine!....
I am optimistic that the way is now clear for new negotiations to begin over a new lease or even ownership of the Arena.
What if SISU offer £50m to buy the whole freehold?

imp:

I am just utterly speechless.
Sometimes I am not sure if you are just a WUM throwing stuff like this out there to see who will bite, or if you really mean it. I suspect you mean it. When we are non-league in a couple of years, I hope you will continue expressing the same point of view.
If you had to post an honest opinion instead of stirring things up, how high do you rate our chances of dropping into the fourth division of English football? What do you think are our chances of keeping Clark and Baker? The bookies and many knowledgeable people are predicting that what happened two seasons ago - you know, the season we got relegated - will happen again this season and we will be relegated for the second time in three years.
Me, I think under SISU we will be non-league in three years at the outside. Yes, you just go on making posts like this in support of morally bankrupt liars and cheats with no knowledge or respect of football or for this club.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Sorry but I think you will find that the lease clauses determine whether the lease is broken by entering administration.

I have not seen the lease clauses but the actions of all concerned leave little doubt that the lease is ended already!

That was the whole object of the exercise!

imp:

And you seem quite happy with these actions, even a little smug.
I sincerely hope that within a relatively short period of time that you find yourself in a similar situation and we will see how smug you are then.

 

[grego_gee]

Ah all is well.

I thought that our fortunes were in some way related to our ownership, but now I realise that as Joy and Tim aren't in the first team these things are unrelated.

Thankyou for clearing that up.

No, its not really down to that at all! I was just being cute!


It's just because you didn't cheer loud enough!
or buy enough pies!

imp:

 

[Samo]

Sorry but I think you will find that the lease clauses determine whether the lease is broken by entering administration.

I have not seen the lease clauses but the actions of all concerned leave little doubt that the lease is ended already!

That was the whole object of the exercise!

imp:

I beg to differ but we will see. Of course they can liquidate Ltd now and break the lease anyway.

 

[grego_gee]

I am just utterly speechless.
Sometimes I am not sure if you are just a WUM throwing stuff like this out there to see who will bite, or if you really mean it. I suspect you mean it. When we are non-league in a couple of years, I hope you will continue expressing the same point of view.
If you had to post an honest opinion instead of stirring things up, how high do you rate our chances of dropping into the fourth division of English football? What do you think are our chances of keeping Clark and Baker? The bookies and many knowledgeable people are predicting that what happened two seasons ago - you know, the season we got relegated - will happen again this season and we will be relegated for the second time in three years.
Me, I think under SISU we will be non-league in three years at the outside. Yes, you just go on making posts like this in support of morally bankrupt liars and cheats with no knowledge or respect of football or for this club.

I am not a WUM it is my true opinion.
SISU's action was perfectly legal and certainly no worse than ACL pigheadedly trying to enforce the terms of an un-affordable lease signed by previous owners.

If We are non-league in a couple of seasons it won't be due to SISU breaking an un-affordable lease!

IF that happens - it will be due to anti SISU hysteria starving the CLUB of revenue.

If you deny SISU 1 penny you are denying the club of 4 or 5 pennies!
How can you justify that?

imp:

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Grego,

That is a very strange way of looking at it!
Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but we seem to see the same actions entirely differently. I see SISU as liars and cheats and you see them as saviours.
I see any penny given to them as sponsoring the further downfall of my club whereas you see every penny given to SISU as going towards saving our club.
I really cannot see any middle ground nor any point in trying to discuss matters sensibly because we are so far apart on all of this that there can be no understanding between us.
I will leave this with a simple statement:
You are entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion and the opinion apparently of the great majority of the members of this board and of supports generally you are terribly wrong.

 

[Grendel]

Grego,

That is a very strange way of looking at it!
Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but we seem to see the same actions entirely differently. I see SISU as liars and cheats and you see them as saviours.
I see any penny given to them as sponsoring the further downfall of my club whereas you see every penny given to SISU as going towards saving our club.
I really cannot see any middle ground nor any point in trying to discuss matters sensibly because we are so far apart on all of this that there can be no understanding between us.
I will leave this with a simple statement:
You are entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion and the opinion apparently of the great majority of the members of this board and of supports generally you are terribly wrong.

Disagree with the last statement. Certainly the whipped up zealots (many who don't go anyway) but the average die hard fan just wants to see the team play and is utterly ambivelent to the politics.

 

[steveo1987]

Probably end up with 10-12k sign it and around 7-8k for home games...genius

 

[mattylad]

nearly 2400

 

[TheRoyalScam]

Signed - now 2,444......

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Disagree with the last statement. Certainly the whipped up zealots (many who don't go anyway) but the average die hard fan just wants to see the team play and is utterly ambivelent to the politics.

Grendel, are you deliberately ignoring the various polls that have been conducted in which many thousands voted, are you ignoring the shows of hands at the so-called forums that showed 95% were against, are you ignoring Fisher's own words where he admitted that probably only 25% of fans were in favour of SISU's plans, are you deliberately ignoring the great majority of the posters on this forum who clearly against SISU/Fisher and their plans for our club?

Please grow up Grendel and stop defending an indefensible position. You are entitled to your opinion, but do not try and make out that your opinion is that of the majority of fans, for it most clearly is not!

 

[grego_gee]

Grego,

That is a very strange way of looking at it!
Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but we seem to see the same actions entirely differently. I see SISU as liars and cheats and you see them as saviours.
I see any penny given to them as sponsoring the further downfall of my club whereas you see every penny given to SISU as going towards saving our club.
I really cannot see any middle ground nor any point in trying to discuss matters sensibly because we are so far apart on all of this that there can be no understanding between us.
I will leave this with a simple statement:
You are entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion and the opinion apparently of the great majority of the members of this board and of supports generally you are terribly wrong.

Thank you Swiss, at least we are remaining courteous and polite even if in disagreement.

I respect that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
but I would maintain that my observations are based on facts not opinion.

I do not accept that any of us are in a position to call SISU liars and cheats.

In reply to your remark about every penny specifically,
Not one penny is paid to SISU, ALL sales go to CCFC,
if SISU take any it is only a small proportion as profit (as is expected with any business)
ie at most 1p in every 5p!


imp:

 

[Grendel]

Grendel, are you deliberately ignoring the various polls that have been conducted in which many thousands voted, are you ignoring the shows of hands at the so-called forums that showed 95% were against, are you ignoring Fisher's own words where he admitted that probably only 25% of fans were in favour of SISU's plans, are you deliberately ignoring the great majority of the posters on this forum who clearly against SISU/Fisher and their plans for our club?

Please grow up Grendel and stop defending an indefensible position. You are entitled to your opinion, but do not try and make out that your opinion is that of the majority of fans, for it most clearly is not!

Are you seriously suggesting if the club are at the Ricoh gates will significantly alter? If so you're in for a big disappointment. Look at the people on here who admit really they will still go - stupot, Otis, torch, gaz, SBNE, archer and they are just a handful. Fans who go anyway. Then look at objectors - you, dadgad, sky blue John, dongle all of whom are very reluctant to say when they ever go anyway.

Even valiant despite his moaning will end up going.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Are you seriously suggesting if the club are at the Ricoh gates will significantly alter? If so you're in for a big disappointment. Look at the people on here who admit really they will still go - stupot, Otis, torch, gaz, SBNE, archer and they are just a handful. Fans who go anyway. Then look at objectors - you, dadgad, sky blue John, dongle all of whom are very reluctant to say when they ever go anyway.

Even valiant despite his moaning will end up going.

Grendel,

I can only judge by the comments that people post here and elsewhere, and based on those comments 75% or more will not support this club financially as long as SISU (or any of their group companies) are involved.
You also say "the Ricoh gates". Why are you assuming we will play at the Ricoh? Are you stating that you believe Fisher is a liar when he has publically stated again and again that we will never play at the Ricoh again?
If you know differently, please let us all know.

 

[Grendel]

Grendel,

I can only judge by the comments that people post here and elsewhere, and based on those comments 75% or more will not support this club financially as long as SISU (or any of their group companies) are involved.
You also say "the Ricoh gates". Why are you assuming we will play at the Ricoh? Are you stating that you believe Fisher is a liar when he has publically stated again and again that we will never play at the Ricoh again?
If you know differently, please let us all know.

But surely you accept 75% of people on here do not attend anyway. Do a poll of season ticket holders only and them see the result.

Fisher has said CCFC Ltd will not play at the Ricoh and that strictly speaking should be true as imam sure they are trading insolvently and so will be liquidated in accordance with British laws governing such matters.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Thank you Swiss, at least we are remaining courteous and polite even if in disagreement.

I respect that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
but I would maintain that my observations are based on facts not opinion.

I do not accept that any of us are in a position to call SISU liars and cheats.

In reply to your remark about every penny specifically,
Not one penny is paid to SISU, ALL sales go to CCFC,
if SISU take any it is only a small proportion as profit (as is expected with any business)
ie at most 1p in every 5p!


imp:

I do try to be polite, though some posters make that difficult!
A question: We have done nothing but make significant losses since we were somewhat roughly and forcefully acquired by SISU.
And yet, the accounts that have been submitted show that CCFC Ltd. were charged many millions for "management fees" by other SISU-owned companies. Now let us be very clear; you are an intelligent person, and we both know full well that "management fees" simply means that money is taken out of one group entity to the benefit of another group entity without having to go through the bothersome routine of declaring dividends, ESPECIALLY when there are no profits to be distributed.
I have been an international accountant for over 40 years, and you can believe me when I tell you I understand transfer pricing issues, and I know exactly what forms of intercompany charges there are, how they are applied, how different countries apply different rules and how corporations try to get around them. The truth of the matter is that "management fees" are rarely truly justified. In the same manner "intercompany interest" is rarely justified as the loans on which the interest charges are based would usually be considered as hidden equity and therefore not subject to an interest charge.
To my mind, the "management fees" and the "intercompany interests" charged to the CCFC Ltd are as artificial as the structures SISU has put in place to "lie and cheat" their way out of fulfilling their obligations to an entity that was set up to save our football club from it's own stupidities under prior ownerships.

I pick on these charges because they are an easy target to identify from the accounts, but as OSB and others have pointed out, these are just the tip of the financial iceberg in the group accounts and the accounts of the football club. (e.g. ask yourself why the contracts of the players were in holding when all the expense of playing football was in Ltd., then think on the transfer fees received since SISU have been the owners).

So, given all of this, why is it your opinion that SISU have hardly taken anything out of the club?
My opinion is that they have taken millions out of the club when the club has never made a profit since they have been owners.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

But surely you accept 75% of people on here do not attend anyway. Do a poll of season ticket holders only and them see the result.

Fisher has said CCFC Ltd will not play at the Ricoh and that strictly speaking should be true as imam sure they are trading insolvently and so will be liquidated in accordance with British laws governing such matters.

Sorry Grendel, but I am not going to let you get away with that.

Quoting Fisher as saying that "CCFC Ltd. will never play at the Ricoh" is a deliberate evasion. That was not what he said every time, and usually he referred to "this football club", and as he has always insisted that "the football club" was always Holdings, then he can only have meant that CCFC Holdings - the football club according to Fisher - will never play at the Ricoh again.

So, having got that out of the way, please let me ask you the same question again in the hope that you will not try playing semantics again and will not avoid the question again:
Why are you assuming we will play at the Ricoh? Are you stating that you believe Fisher is a liar when he has publically stated again and again that we will never play at the Ricoh again?
If you know differently, please let us all know.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Even valiant despite his moaning will end up going.

I look forward to hearing the echoey desolate shout of 'cocksucker' amidst the depressed silence.