Out of interest (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter ccfc92
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D
Deleted member 4232
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Good question. No idea, but I am glad it has calmed right down. It's The part of football that I despise. Mob mentality that seems to only really associate itself with this game.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Yeahh, I was just wondering if it was a build up of events, or a sudden culture appearing?
The end of National service ??
No seriously ,its possible that the end of that led to the start of Gang violence in this country Mods and Rockers etc ,the Increase of disposable income with Increasing Freedom to spend time and money away from the FOLKS. Might sound sexist but not Intended to be , but the upturn In mothers going out to get the second wage resulting In more latchkey kids growing up off the leash ??
No seriously ,its possible that the end of that led to the start of Gang violence in this country Mods and Rockers etc ,the Increase of disposable income with Increasing Freedom to spend time and money away from the FOLKS. Might sound sexist but not Intended to be , but the upturn In mothers going out to get the second wage resulting In more latchkey kids growing up off the leash ??
SkyBlueScottie
Well-Known Member
The breakdown of society. Massive public debt, country starved of public funds and energy all played their part.
Otis
Well-Known Member
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
That seems a good theory, agreed. It's just why football? Not rugby?
Yeah ,i thought they came later, I forget Teddy Boys as well .They were the first cult I recall after the war and National service coming to an end ,skinheads were seventies and conjoined to racism ,although no doubt played a massive part In the subject matter.
You're right the experience is totally different.
Not In anyway am ii intending this to sound condescending and It is'nt ,but intelligence may just play a part here .
Also I wonder how many fans of rugby have played the game of Rugby and learned the sporting culture in comparison to the average football fan .
By definition I may just be suggesting that rugby Is/was a Toffs game ,something Football has attempted to become.
TurkeyTrot
New Member
Various books point to travel being easier, financially and practically meaning larger numbers attended away games.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
I'd agree with that too be fair
Flying Fokker
Well-Known Member
cloughie
Well-Known Member
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
The Romans....
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
In Rugby the fighting is usually on the pitch from what I have seen on Sky in the last couple of years (and past years before). As Hobo say's in another post, fighting at football was seen a lot earlier than the 60's at Millwall (no surprise).
Yes that Surprised me .
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
No one likes 'em... they dont care...!!
I'm getting Sex pistols here.:facepalm:
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
Never mind the boll*x Wingy....!!!
I grew up in the "heyday" of football hooliganism, and coming from Warwick where skinheads were the main "style" and many local lads were getting involved with trouble following Wolves and Villa, and some are still on the fringe of it today in their 50's, and some are pillars of our society.
The majority of lads like myself grew up on council estates, where everybody knew each other, and you could trust them.
Mods, Rockers, then Skinheads and Greasers, and as a person who went through the Doc Martin, Crombie coat,and still got a Harrington jacket, by the way.
we went to football matches as large groups of lads all pretty much dressed the same so you were herded together, and groups of similar dressed fans of other teams would try to show they were better by trying to take your end of the ground.
Back in the 70's the West End at Coventry would be segregated by a line of police, but away fans would try to get in early and take over the end before the police and home fans arrived, it was then down to the home fans to move them and the only way was to fight for your "end" and your club.
Fans wore silk club scarves tied to their wrist and showed their colours in the grounds, and so it became tribal.
This happened at lots of grounds and you would see away fans being marched from the home end into the away "end" and be welcomed as heroes.
Most trouble was inside grounds, as segregation was minimal but sometimes you would have to fight your way back to the coaches and then travel back without any windows. You would go to some grounds, be surrounded all game and hope you might lose so that the opposition fans might not want to fight after,but that never changed.
The introduction of fencing between fans and then all-seater stadiums changed this, but moved the problems outside, this made it easier for the police to control it, and so over the years those that wanted to cause trouble at football matches stopped wearing colours and arrange to meet away from the grounds and still it happens in very small numbers still today.
Not glorifying what happened, just telling it as i saw it from the inside.
Thankfully most grounds are safe to go to.
The majority of lads like myself grew up on council estates, where everybody knew each other, and you could trust them.
Mods, Rockers, then Skinheads and Greasers, and as a person who went through the Doc Martin, Crombie coat,and still got a Harrington jacket, by the way.
we went to football matches as large groups of lads all pretty much dressed the same so you were herded together, and groups of similar dressed fans of other teams would try to show they were better by trying to take your end of the ground.
Back in the 70's the West End at Coventry would be segregated by a line of police, but away fans would try to get in early and take over the end before the police and home fans arrived, it was then down to the home fans to move them and the only way was to fight for your "end" and your club.
Fans wore silk club scarves tied to their wrist and showed their colours in the grounds, and so it became tribal.
This happened at lots of grounds and you would see away fans being marched from the home end into the away "end" and be welcomed as heroes.
Most trouble was inside grounds, as segregation was minimal but sometimes you would have to fight your way back to the coaches and then travel back without any windows. You would go to some grounds, be surrounded all game and hope you might lose so that the opposition fans might not want to fight after,but that never changed.
The introduction of fencing between fans and then all-seater stadiums changed this, but moved the problems outside, this made it easier for the police to control it, and so over the years those that wanted to cause trouble at football matches stopped wearing colours and arrange to meet away from the grounds and still it happens in very small numbers still today.
Not glorifying what happened, just telling it as i saw it from the inside.
Thankfully most grounds are safe to go to.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
It has been around along time, working class frustration;
The stigma of violence attached to Millwall can be traced back over 100 years. Millwall played local rivals West Ham United away at Upton Park on 17 September 1906 in a Western League game. Both sets of supporters were primarily made up of dockers, who lived and worked in the same locality in east London. Many were rivals working for opposing firms and vying for the same business.[6] A local newspaper, East Ham Echo, reported that, "From the very first kick of the ball it was seen likely to be some trouble, but the storm burst when Dean and Jarvis came into collision (Millwall had two players sent off during the match). This aroused considerable excitement among the spectators. The crowds on the bank having caught the fever, free fights were plentiful."[7] In the 1920s Millwall's ground was closed for two weeks after a Newport County goalkeeper, who had been struck by missiles, jumped into the crowd to confront some of the home supporters and was knocked unconscious.[8] The ground was again closed for two weeks in 1934 following crowd disturbances after the visit of Bradford (Park Avenue). Pitch invasions resulted in another closure in 1947 and in 1950 the club was fined after a referee and linesman were ambushed outside the ground.[4]
The stigma of violence attached to Millwall can be traced back over 100 years. Millwall played local rivals West Ham United away at Upton Park on 17 September 1906 in a Western League game. Both sets of supporters were primarily made up of dockers, who lived and worked in the same locality in east London. Many were rivals working for opposing firms and vying for the same business.[6] A local newspaper, East Ham Echo, reported that, "From the very first kick of the ball it was seen likely to be some trouble, but the storm burst when Dean and Jarvis came into collision (Millwall had two players sent off during the match). This aroused considerable excitement among the spectators. The crowds on the bank having caught the fever, free fights were plentiful."[7] In the 1920s Millwall's ground was closed for two weeks after a Newport County goalkeeper, who had been struck by missiles, jumped into the crowd to confront some of the home supporters and was knocked unconscious.[8] The ground was again closed for two weeks in 1934 following crowd disturbances after the visit of Bradford (Park Avenue). Pitch invasions resulted in another closure in 1947 and in 1950 the club was fined after a referee and linesman were ambushed outside the ground.[4]
If I remember rightly, football attendances increased after the World Cup in 66. The Rangers Celtic games got a lot of attention in the press around 68 because of violence and this spread into England. The "skin-head", originally the haircut of borstal boys, became fashionable partly because borstal boys were considered "hard". I can remember noticing the skins for the first time at Coventry Carnival in 69, when they disrupted some of the bands and then went " Paki-bashing ". In the West End lots more people joined in this "game" and you had to retain the West End for City fans. Never saw any City fans there though when Man U turned up...
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
This stuff has been going on for ever
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/circusmaximus/nika.html
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/circusmaximus/nika.html