Our midfield - do we have problems? (1 Viewer)

BlueSkiesForever · Sep 4, 2023

clint van damme said:
I'm not saying are defence needs an overhaul, I'm just pointing out that our attack is our performing our defence so why aren't you pointing the finger at them?
It's ludicrous to say either need's changes at this early stage. They've both started steadily, things to both work on and with.

As for looking at the opposition, Watford had failed to score in their previous 3 league games!

That’s fair enough, we’ve all got our own opinions but the reason I’m not pointing the finger at our defence is because I don’t believe our defence is weaker than our attack. If it becomes that way then fair enough I’ll point my finger at the defence, but currently I’m pointing more fingers at our attack (breaking down in midfield, giving the ball away etc) than I am at our defence.

As for Watford, like I said to Brighton Sky Blue above, they’ve so far faced Blackburn, Stoke, Plymouth, Stevenage and QPR, in my opinion none of those sides are known for scoring numerous goals in any given game, hence the low expected goals against.

Also just to add, although we’re debating about attack vs. defence, it’s more the midfield that I’m concerned with. It’s not necessarily Wright and Godden that I have a problem with, the actual chance taking is okay but the chance creation is pretty poor atm.

clint van damme · Sep 4, 2023

But they didn't score in their previous 3 games but put 3 past us.
But the week before we kept a clean sheet against Sunderland who put 5 past Southampton.
the point being, it's far too early to be making judgements on defence or attack, (we can all see the issue with midfield), but losing a star player late in the window will do that.

If we were shipping goals or not scoring I could understand it but we're above average for goals scored and around average for goals conceded, at this early stage that's fine, no need for panic or kneejerk reactions.

shepardo01 · Sep 4, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Didn’t Watford have the lowest xG against in the division prior to last weekend?

Something like that yes, and highest XG for too...

covboy9 · Sep 4, 2023

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Why the obsession with being able to do 90mins? There are these things called subs. If someone is a supersub that bangs in goals do you write them off because they don't do it for 90mins?

People's natural athleticism differs from person to person and no matter how hard they try their aerobic capacity etc will be limited. But if they have natural footballing ability bin them off because they get tired after 60mins? Would you prefer a player giving it everything for 60mins or coasting a bit so they can get through 90? Of course you couldn't have every player like that as there aren't enough subs, but 2 or 3 you could get away with. Wing backs especially it should be looked at as it's a very demanding position.

I'm not saying Palmer is some amazing superstar, but he does have technical ability and we should look to use it, and if we need to replace him after an hour so be it. Or use him as an option off the bench for 30.

You have never played football

I think he’s a decent footballer but zero goals assists this season and has never done a full season

team needs better long term

clint van damme · Sep 4, 2023

shepardo01 said:
Something like that yes, and highest XG for too...

They hadn't scored in their previous 3 league games which just shows this XG malarky isn't always that great an indicator.
Not sure if it's true but someone said Rotherham's XG was twice that of Stokes in the game Stoke put 6 past them!

shepardo01 · Sep 4, 2023

clint van damme said:
They hadn't scored in their previous 3 league games which just shows this XG malarky isn't always that great an indicator.
Not sure if it's true but someone said Rotherham's XG was twice that of Stokes in the game Stoke put 6 past them!

Yep -it was.... !!

Watford have been unlucky in their previous games, dominated possession and created chances (and because of dominance, not conceded many chances) both myself and Frostie mentioned this prior to the game I think.

We gave them opportunities to convert chances - and vice versa.
Positive, based on previous Watford performances that we outdid them possession wise, but a caveat to that, and a point pertinent to this thread, much of our possession was patterns of play across our back line -backband forth, and into midfield, where then things didn't progress as well as they could. (Somebody posted a graphic of stats that included a passing combination graphic)

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 4, 2023

clint van damme said:
They hadn't scored in their previous 3 league games which just shows this XG malarky isn't always that great an indicator.
Not sure if it's true but someone said Rotherham's XG was twice that of Stokes in the game Stoke put 6 past them!

Because xG is about the quality of the chance rather than the quality of finishing by whichever team it is.

Grendel · Sep 4, 2023

PVA said:
Are you going to keep this painfully boring, dreadfully unfunny, shtick up all season?

Exclusive footage of PVA favourite seat at kick off time at the CBS

PVA · Sep 4, 2023

Grendel said:
Exclusive footage of PVA favourite seat at kick off time at the CBS

Hahaha man who used to be season ticket holder isn't currently a season ticket holder, wow that's so funny and worth posting about every day, oh my sides

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 4, 2023

covboy9 said:
You have never played football

I think he’s a decent footballer but zero goals assists this season and has never done a full season

team needs better long term

Those are valid discussion points, but have nothing to do with him being able to play 90mins or not.

BlueSkiesForever · Sep 4, 2023

clint van damme said:
But they didn't score in their previous 3 games but put 3 past us.
But the week before we kept a clean sheet against Sunderland who put 5 past Southampton.
the point being, it's far too early to be making judgements on defence or attack, (we can all see the issue with midfield), but losing a star player late in the window will do that.

If we were shipping goals or not scoring I could understand it but we're above average for goals scored and around average for goals conceded, at this early stage that's fine, no need for panic or kneejerk reactions.

Yeah exactly, so it shows that bar the Watford game our defence has been pretty solid, if we kept a clean sheet against Sunderland who since put 5 past Southampton then our defence can’t be the main issue.

But I agree that on the whole it’s too early to cast long term judgments on attack vs. defence, though the one thing I think we’re all clear on is that we’re lacking someone like Hamer, a defensively solid player that can also pick out a killer pass for our strikers to score from, something that I don’t think Eccles naturally is.

BlueSkiesForever · Sep 4, 2023

covboy9 said:
You have never played football

I think he’s a decent footballer but zero goals assists this season and has never done a full season

team needs better long term

Agreed, great bench option and can fill in for players in a number of roles but is neither a naturally defensive player nor a goal-scorer.
I just hope we’ll be looking for a Hamer replacement over the next few months and maybe sign him in January or in the next summer window.

clint van damme · Sep 5, 2023

BlueSkiesForever said:
Yeah exactly, so it shows that bar the Watford game our defence has been pretty solid, if we kept a clean sheet against Sunderland who since put 5 past Southampton then our defence can’t be the main issue.

But I agree that on the whole it’s too early to cast long term judgments on attack vs. defence, though the one thing I think we’re all clear on is that we’re lacking someone like Hamer, a defensively solid player that can also pick out a killer pass for our strikers to score from, something that I don’t think Eccles naturally is.

Eccles definitely isn't that player, which is why I said in a previous post its not really fair to expect him to be.

shmmeee · Sep 5, 2023

shepardo01 said:
Something like that yes, and highest XG for too...

Cant imagine an own goal and a 30 yard free kick did much to dent that TBF.

Rugby Sky Blue · Sep 5, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Didn’t Watford have the lowest xG against in the division prior to last weekend?

Yeah that’s right and they had only conceded twice before the weekend.

Rugby Sky Blue · Sep 5, 2023

clint van damme said:
They hadn't scored in their previous 3 league games which just shows this XG malarky isn't always that great an indicator.
Not sure if it's true but someone said Rotherham's XG was twice that of Stokes in the game Stoke put 6 past them!

Yes but their attacking stats have been strong bar the goals. They are one of the best teams in the league for chances created and shots at goal and 2nd in the league based on expected points. They brought in a new forward before our game against them and he scored two.

Ccfcisparks · Sep 5, 2023

Rugby Sky Blue said:
Yes but their attacking stats have been strong bar the goals. They are one of the best teams in the league for chances created and shots at goal and 2nd in the league based on expected points. They brought in a new forward before our game against them and he scored two.

If anything the stats point to the fact they should have been scoring a lot more than they did. Like you said I'm not surprised they finally scored a few against us, someone mentioned that they probably would pre match too. Can't remember who it was

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 5, 2023

Ccfcisparks said:
If anything the stats point to the fact they should have been scoring a lot more than they did. Like you said I'm not surprised they finally scored a few against us, someone mentioned that they probably would pre match too. Can't remember who it was

Basically they scored the goals that Boro really should have done.

Evo1883 · Sep 5, 2023

Thay had a really low XG against us

0.96

Ours against them was 1.9

Think we are the only team to have above a 1 XG against them

Ccfcisparks · Sep 5, 2023

Evo1883 said:
Thay had a really low XG against us

0.96

Ours against them was 1.9

Think we are the only team to have above a 1 XG against them

Would love to know what the xG on that backpass own goal was! Must be near 0

Evo1883 · Sep 5, 2023

Ccfcisparks said:
Would love to know what the xG on that backpass own goal was! Must be near 0

Thomas backpass also gifts them a goal , massively boosting their XG

Ccfcisparks · Sep 5, 2023

Evo1883 said:
Thomas backpass also gifts them a goal , massively boosting their XG

Yep very true.

fernandopartridge · Sep 5, 2023

Evo1883 said:
Thomas backpass also gifts them a goal , massively boosting their XG

Is our xG inflated by the penalty a bit though too?

Evo1883 · Sep 5, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
Is our xG inflated by the penalty a bit though too?

I think a penalty has a 0.76 XG

MusicDating · Sep 5, 2023

Evo1883 said:
I think a penalty has a 0.76 XG

Our fans on Twitter had it as 1.0 XG...

Evo1883 · Sep 5, 2023

MusicDating said:
Our fans on Twitter had it as 1.0 XG...

It's 0.76 as there is a 76% chance of scoring

MusicDating · Sep 5, 2023

Evo1883 said:
It's 0.76 as there is a 76% chance of scoring

Indeed. I was getting at that the folk of Twitter believing it was criminal to miss a pen and Godden should be dropped

SAJ · Sep 5, 2023

Evo1883 said:
It's amazing really these issues only really manifest because we're not doing what we could and should be really ...

You can't score 3 at home and not win

Worse than that you can’t score 3 goals away and not win.

Frostie · Sep 5, 2023

Ccfcisparks said:
If anything the stats point to the fact they should have been scoring a lot more than they did. Like you said I'm not surprised they finally scored a few against us, someone mentioned that they probably would pre match too. Can't remember who it was

Frostie said:
They have been good, not getting their rewards at the moment but lack that individual quality they used to have with João Pedro, Sarr etc.
They dominate the ball, dominate territory, create decent chances & give very little away. Will be a really tough game between 2 teams in transition I think.

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