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Other income streams (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Manchester_sky_blue
  • Start date May 19, 2015
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Moff

Well-Known Member
  • May 19, 2015
  • #106
Astute said:
Are you talking about us?
Click to expand...

Big Fat Ron was talking about London Irish as an example of a successfull Premiership Rugby Team. I begged to differ and described them as above, which do seem familiar to our own football team.

I would hardly say I am full to the brim of sucess through our football team over the years, so what I was trying to say is its shite, whilst I think Big Fat Ron was suggesting it was acceptable!
 

Calista

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #107
As I understand it we’re not talking about profits here, merely revenues.

Wasps have gained control of the stadium business through the remarkable strategy of making an acceptable bid for it. CCFC get match-day revenues by virtue of paying an annual rental fee to Wasps, and presumably the rent we pay counts as revenue for them.

Why can’t the same principle apply to NON-match-day revenues? If we now paid Wasps annually for the rights to some of the activities/revenues, Wasps (as landlord) would be receiving a genuine income stream from CCFC, right? We would BOTH be getting the revenues.

Can someone (OSB?) please explain to me why that doesn’t work for both parties. Is it double-accounting or something? At the end of a long day, I will admit to having just consumed some cheap white wine, which might be stronger than it says on the bottle
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #108
oldfiver said:
Its not FFP in this league but SCMP ( see another thread ) and it says:

Turnover definition

Under the SCMP rules, the definition of 'Turnover' is particularly important as Turnover is used to determine the maximum wage-spend. Within a traditional accounting perspective, there are usually only three elements of turnover:

  • Match-day Income
  • Commercial Income (such as sponsorship)
  • TV revenue (and any 'merit payments' based on league position)
However the Football League use a is broader definition of Turnover. Crucially, the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts. up club debts. In League 1 and League 2, a wealthy owner can therefore fund the club spending in a way that is not permitted in other divisions. Manchester City and Leicester for example seem set for punishment for their excessive losses (from UEFA and the Championship respectively) despite the fact that the owners have injected hard cash into the club to finance the spending.
Click to expand...

Yes you are right. However for the purposes of defining the term 'turnover' the SCMP use the same definitions for this as is used in the FFP document from UEFA. In this particular case we are referring to commercial income.
 
T

The Gentleman

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #109
Grendel said:
Or above your pay grade.
Click to expand...

Oh shit! I truly am in trouble if a man who flips burgers in KFC is telling me this

You still going to be CCFC's number 1 stay away fan this season?
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #110
Ian1779 said:
Yes you are right. However for the purposes of defining the term 'turnover' the SCMP use the same definitions for this as is used in the FFP document from UEFA. In this particular case we are referring to commercial income.
Click to expand...

What I cannot find is if this means "net income". If you purchase a building to generate rental income this is generally by way of a loan. The loan clearly needs servicing so does "income" mean the gross rentals received or after interest and similar costs.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #111
The Gentleman said:
Oh shit! I truly am in trouble if a man who flips burgers in KFC is telling me this

You still going to be CCFC's number 1 stay away fan this season?
Click to expand...

Remember he only says about what he earns when you wind him up about something like he said I did. He said he would never mention it in the slightest otherwise. Can you remember what you said so I can find out what I might have said?
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #112
Grendel said:
What contribution have you made other than one that suits your own personal financial agenda?

As regard to limited grasp if facts regarding a populated area - how populated was the gasworks site before the arena was constructed? Sites the other side and in rugby borough council are very similar in population demographic - just because you will not benefit financially others may.
Click to expand...

Where are these sites in Rugby. An example will do.
FYI the gas works was surrounded by several estates plus the main feeder road from the M6 into Coventry.

Waiting ......
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #113
italiahorse said:
Where are these sites in Rugby. An example will do.
FYI the gas works was surrounded by several estates plus the main feeder road from the M6 into Coventry.

Waiting ......
Click to expand...

I have heard Ansty on here. But other than getting planning permission it would need a direct road. This would cost about the same as building a stadium.

But why are we still arguing over this same old shite? No land purchased after over 2 years. No evidence other than a few mock pictures put together on a PC. Where SISU were supposedly looking kept moving as the FOI act questions were being asked. And finally we can't afford it.
 
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #114
italiahorse said:
Where are these sites in Rugby. An example will do.
FYI the gas works was surrounded by several estates plus the main feeder road from the M6 into Coventry.

Waiting ......
Click to expand...

Did they say centre of Rugby? Remember Ryton is part of Rugby BC ( for example )
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #115
italiahorse said:
Where are these sites in Rugby. An example will do.
FYI the gas works was surrounded by several estates plus the main feeder road from the M6 into Coventry.
Click to expand...

Broadstreet wouldn't be too dissimilar would it? You could probably make an argument for Ansty Business Park as well although the bulk of the housing there would be the other side of the showcase from any new ground.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #116
Astute said:
I have heard Ansty on here. But other than getting planning permission it would need a direct road. This would cost about the same as building a stadium.
Click to expand...

If I was in charge of this project my first choice site would be the bit of land bordered by the M69, Central Blvd into the business park and Hill Park Wood. The infrastructure is pretty much there, believe there's even an underpass already in place. Business Park could provide additional parking and there's already some food and drink places nearby on the showcase site. Its also as close as you can get to Cov without being in the city. Right next to Rolls Royce as well, Rolls Royce Arena anyone?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #117
italiahorse said:
Where are these sites in Rugby. An example will do.
FYI the gas works was surrounded by several estates plus the main feeder road from the M6 into Coventry.

Waiting ......
Click to expand...

We've already mentioned sites around Long Lawford/Church Lawford too, that might be possiblities. Currently mixed industrial/warehousing, just off the A45. Regardless of whether we should build a new stadium, it's daft to pretend that there aren't places where a stadium could be built.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #118
chiefdave said:
If I was in charge of this project my first choice site would be the bit of land bordered by the M69, Central Blvd into the business park and Hill Park Wood. The infrastructure is pretty much there, believe there's even an underpass already in place. Business Park could provide additional parking and there's already some food and drink places nearby on the showcase site. Its also as close as you can get to Cov without being in the city. Right next to Rolls Royce as well, Rolls Royce Arena anyone?
Click to expand...

That would be a 'money no object' build. The land wouldn't be cheap. If we are going to build somewhere the land will have to be cheap. I suppose that is why a lot of the new grounds are built away from where they would be better off being.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #119
Astute said:
That would be a 'money no object' build. The land wouldn't be cheap. If we are going to build somewhere the land will have to be cheap. I suppose that is why a lot of the new grounds are built away from where they would be better off being.
Click to expand...

It's all a balancing act though isn't it. Land in the middle of nowhere is cheaper as there's little demand for it, it would then follow that other companies will be less likely to want to get involved in a deal similar to the one that saw Tesco contribute a large chunk to the Ricoh.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #120
duffer said:
We've already mentioned sites around Long Lawford/Church Lawford too, that might be possiblities. Currently mixed industrial/warehousing, just off the A45. Regardless of whether we should build a new stadium, it's daft to pretend that there aren't places where a stadium could be built.
Click to expand...

But being more realistic how about very close to Coventry, cheap, ready infrastructure and not greenbelt for starters.
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #121
Astute said:
But being more realistic how about very close to Coventry, cheap, ready infrastructure and not greenbelt for starters.
Click to expand...

Ansty or Broadstreet.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #122
chiefdave said:
It's all a balancing act though isn't it. Land in the middle of nowhere is cheaper as there's little demand for it, it would then follow that other companies will be less likely to want to get involved in a deal similar to the one that saw Tesco contribute a large chunk to the Ricoh.
Click to expand...

Them days are gone. The big supermarket builds are about over. Tescos even pulled the plug on all new big stores. In a town near where I used to live they were building one. It just stopped and won't be going any further. And there isn't a single supermarket there so they would have made a killing. The last one there was Kwik Save. It was nearly always full.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #123
Now Ann has decided we're going to be part of Birmingham there will be some new options for where we can build a ground!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #124
Astute said:
Them days are gone. The big supermarket builds are about over. Tescos even pulled the plug on all new big stores. In a town near where I used to live they were building one. It just stopped and won't be going any further. And there isn't a single supermarket there so they would have made a killing. The last one there was Kwik Save. It was nearly always full.
Click to expand...

Doesn't have to be a supermarket though, was just an example. Even with supermarkets in the right location they will still build. They've just started building a huge new Tesco near me despite the fact that within a few miles radius there is a Sainsbury, another Tesco, Asda and two Morrisons!
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #125
Moff said:
Ansty or Broadstreet.
Click to expand...

So how much would a road cost to Ansty and how much would the land cost? And the road would have to go through greenbelt land so would take years to get permission. And without a road they would never get planning permission. So not affordable and not viable.
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #126
Astute said:
So how much would a road cost to Ansty and how much would the land cost? And the road would have to go through greenbelt land so would take years to get permission. And without a road they would never get planning permission. So not affordable and not viable.
Click to expand...

Im not disgareeing with you! its just you asked where is near to Coventry and those two came to mind.

Re transport links I dont think it would all be down to the club, and think (although people may know more) that certain funds are avaialble for transportaion links/roads etc.

The Ansty site has been earmarked for development so isnt greenbelt as such, and there are already transport links set in place.

I still think its a non starter.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 20, 2015
  • #127
duffer said:
We've already mentioned sites around Long Lawford/Church Lawford too, that might be possiblities. Currently mixed industrial/warehousing, just off the A45. Regardless of whether we should build a new stadium, it's daft to pretend that there aren't places where a stadium could be built.
Click to expand...

Never fear, Long Lawford/Church Lawford isn't a possibility
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 20, 2015
  • #128
Astute said:
So how much would a road cost to Ansty and how much would the land cost? And the road would have to go through greenbelt land so would take years to get permission. And without a road they would never get planning permission. So not affordable and not viable.
Click to expand...

There's already a bunch of roads into Ansty. They built them a couple (I say a couple, time flies! Many?!?) years ago off the A46.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #129
Moff said:
Im not disgareeing with you! its just you asked where is near to Coventry and those two came to mind.

Re transport links I dont think it would all be down to the club, and think (although people may know more) that certain funds are avaialble for transportaion links/roads etc.

The Ansty site has been earmarked for development so isnt greenbelt as such, and there are already transport links set in place.

I still think its a non starter.
Click to expand...

I asked where would be affordable and not on greenbelt land very close to Coventry, not just where is there enough land. It makes a massive difference.

And remember as part of the Ricoh build we had to pay for a bridge to be rebuilt. Cost a lot of money as well.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #130
Deleted member 5849 said:
There's already a bunch of roads into Ansty. They built them a couple (I say a couple, time flies! Many?!?) years ago off the A46.
Click to expand...

Enough to help getting planning permission? Brandon has roads. They are close to other big roads. Something could have been sorted. But it was a no go from the start because of the roads.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #131
Astute said:
But being more realistic how about very close to Coventry, cheap, ready infrastructure and not greenbelt for starters.
Click to expand...

There are mixed/industrial sites with reasonable infrastructure that could be redeveloped in RBC, and some have been highlighted here. Politely, just because they don't meet your preferences in terms of location etc. doesn't make them unrealistic.

I'm not for a moment saying that a new stadium is going to happen, but Wasps arrival certainly increases the probability of it (however remote), imho.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #132
Deleted member 5849 said:
Never fear, Long Lawford/Church Lawford isn't a possibility
Click to expand...

Not greenbelt, cheap land, very close to Coventry and good roads?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 20, 2015
  • #133
Astute said:
Enough to help getting planning permission? Brandon has roads. They are close to other big roads. Something could have been sorted. But it was a no go from the start because of the roads.
Click to expand...

Yes.

Into a massive fuck off industrial park.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 20, 2015
  • #134
Astute said:
Not greenbelt, cheap land, very close to Coventry and good roads?
Click to expand...

It's greenbelt arounf Church Lawford, and I challenge you to call the road to King's Newnham a good road.

Plus it's a flood plain...

It's only being suggested because it was mooted as a site for an airport. But that was a political play to make Heathrow's extra runway go through more smoothly.

Plus you'd then have issues with the Archaeology bunch getting involved, and the tower's a listed building.

Edit: Could maybe head for Dunsmore Heath, where the nuclear bunkers are, I suppose.
 
Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2015

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #135
duffer said:
There are mixed/industrial sites with reasonable infrastructure that could be redeveloped in RBC, and some have been highlighted here. Politely, just because they don't meet your preferences in terms of location etc. doesn't make them unrealistic.

I'm not for a moment saying that a new stadium is going to happen, but Wasps arrival certainly increases the probability of it (however remote), imho.
Click to expand...

Who said about my preferences? I mentioned what would be needed for us (SISU) to be able to afford it and for it to be able to get planning permission. This isn't me having a go at SISU/CCC/RBC or anyone else. This is just me being realistic. Or does price/location/infrastructure/planning permission not matter any more?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #136
Deleted member 5849 said:
Yes.

Into a massive fuck off industrial park.
Click to expand...

And a football crowd would have been turning up when an industrial site is least busy. Like a Saturday afternoon or midweek night.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #137
Astute said:
Who said about my preferences? I mentioned what would be needed for us (SISU) to be able to afford it and for it to be able to get planning permission. This isn't me having a go at SISU/CCC/RBC or anyone else. This is just me being realistic. Or does price/location/infrastructure/planning permission not matter any more?
Click to expand...

It's entirely relevant, but you're trying to say that it's impossible, perhaps because you'd like to believe it isn't going to happen.

But it clearly isn't impossible. There are locations in RBC where a stadium could be built, and a few have been highlighted here straight off the bat. It's a bit daft, imho, to say that it isn't possible.

Even PP is a moveable feast these days - look at where Brighton got their stadium built before saying that's it's impossible to get PP in the green belt.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • May 20, 2015
  • #138
Astute said:
And a football crowd would have been turning up when an industrial site is least busy. Like a Saturday afternoon or midweek night.
Click to expand...

Aye.

tbf Ansty is reasonably practical.

But the club's already ruled it out:facepalm:
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #139
Deleted member 5849 said:
It's greenbelt arounf Church Lawford, and I challenge you to call the road to King's Newnham a good road.

Plus it's a flood plain...

It's only being suggested because it was mooted as a site for an airport. But that was a political play to make Heathrow's extra runway go through more smoothly.

Plus you'd then have issues with the Archaeology bunch getting involved, and the tower's a listed building.

Edit: Could maybe head for Dunsmore Heath, where the nuclear bunkers are, I suppose.
Click to expand...

We've been here before NW. I worked on a big industrial/warehousing/fleet movements site in Long Lawford close to where the Church Lawford airfield was. Plenty big enough to build a stadium on, and miles and miles away from the river, and about a mile off the A45. No floods there.

(Edit: Lawford Heath, sorry).
 
Last edited: May 20, 2015

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • May 20, 2015
  • #140
duffer said:
It's entirely relevant, but you're trying to say that it's impossible, perhaps because you'd like to believe it isn't going to happen.

But it clearly isn't impossible. There are locations in RBC where a stadium could be built, and a few have been highlighted here straight off the bat. It's a bit daft, imho, to say that it isn't possible.

Even PP is a moveable feast these days - look at where Brighton got their stadium built before saying that's it's impossible to get PP in the green belt.
Click to expand...

Again you are trying to make out that I have said something I have not. I never said impossible. I said what would be best.

OK lets go for the opposite of what I said is what we need. It should keep you happy. Greenbelt, expensive land, no decent roads and nowhere near Coventry. Satisfied now?
 
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