Osaka.

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2011
3,146
1,328
213
I don't watch a huge amount of tennis but did catch a bit on Sunday when they were talking about this. The presenter (no idea who it was, female presenter on ITV, didn't recognise her) was saying the issue is with grand slam events in particular.

Essentially when they're on the circuit the relationship with the press is fine as there is a two way relationship. The tennis press aren't going to piss off the players as they have to deal with them week in week out, similar to Clive Eakin and why he's not going to start saying particular players are shit when he will likely be speaking to them in the next few days.

The problem seems to be when the mainstream media turn up to the grand slam events. The presenter was giving examples of female players being quizzed on their choice of underwear and weight. I have no idea what context that was in but on the face of it that seems unacceptable.

Would it not have been better to just let her skip press conferences for this tournament and have a dialogue with the players about the issues and how they can be resolved rather than start throwing out fines and threatening expulsion? Or has this already been an ongoing issue that hasn't been properly resolved? If not seems they've gone for the nuclear option straight away.
Some of us are scared shitless of heights, dentist, doctors, flying etc, so I've got every sympathy for the girl if facing a wall of journos is too much of a challenge. Nobody really knows what's going through her mind, or any pressures she has to cope with.

Unfortunatley, she has taken the money and signed a deal and I would imagine the sponsors are pretty pissed off and worried about setting a precident if they back down. Messy all round. I just hope they can all work together and find a compromise. I'd suggest they have a couple of these locals, who she's used to and won't throw any daft questions at her, conduct a pool interview. A sit down chat which all the print and media services can use.
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2017
3,474
2,929
213
So why does she appear to be receiving a lack of sympathy then?
Maybe because her contractual obligations were clearly laid out before she agreed to enter the tournament?
Either way it will soon blow over, today's headlines, tomorrow's chip wrapper.
She will have to deal with her own mental issues or not play on the big circuits.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
59,936
18,236
813
So fine her or reduce her prize money if they are that desperate to ensure she adheres to their ‘rules’ at an appropriate time (after the tournament) don’t force her to quit mid tournament - it’s stupid.
It’s nothing to with prize money it’s contractual obligation
 

MusicDating

Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
Mar 27, 2011
1,923
1,427
313
It’s nothing to with prize money it’s contractual obligation
Maybe she signed the contract before getting depression?

Irrespective of that, if you had a choice of worsening your depression and maybe making yourself suicidal or annoying some sponsors, what would you do?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SBT

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
59,936
18,236
813
Maybe she signed the contract before getting depression?

Irrespective of that, if you had a choice of worsening your depression and maybe making yourself suicidal or annoying some sponsors, what would you do?
Youd scrap the contract - she’s actually issued a very contrite statement from what I see. In the end she was poorly advised and thought she could dictate terms to the authorities
 

TM8792

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2020
171
71
28
She is the most self-righteous, entitled gobshite on the tour at the moment. Fact is she doesn't really like doing press conferences (which I can imagine is the same for most athletes in any sport to be fair) and she couldn't be arsed, so she played the mental health card in a desperate attempt to get out of them. Then when she is called out for her nonsense, she fully throws the toys out of the pram and quits. It's no loss to her anyway, she's shite on clay and wouldn't have gone far. Pathetic.

Never liked her since she pulled out of some minor tournament before the US Open last year (having already reached the final) to "bring awareness" to the BLM movement. If I was a player she had knocked out in the earlier rounds I'd be very pissed off.

Also, why not pull out of the much higher-profile US Open instead if you want to make a real statement?? I'll tell you why: $$$$$$$$$$
 

COV

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2021
369
201
43
She is the most self-righteous, entitled gobshite on the tour at the moment. Fact is she doesn't really like doing press conferences (which I can imagine is the same for most athletes in any sport to be fair) and she couldn't be arsed, so she played the mental health card in a desperate attempt to get out of them. Then when she is called out for her nonsense, she fully throws the toys out of the pram and quits. It's no loss to her anyway, she's shite on clay and wouldn't have gone far. Pathetic.

Never liked her since she pulled out of some minor tournament before the US Open last year (having already reached the final) to "bring awareness" to the BLM movement. If I was a player she had knocked out in the earlier rounds I'd be very pissed off.

Also, why not pull out of the much higher-profile US Open instead if you want to make a real statement?? I'll tell you why: $$$$$$$$$$
have you ever considered a career in counselling?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: OffenhamSkyBlue

SBT

Well-Known Member
Sep 14, 2012
1,579
1,512
163
She is the most self-righteous, entitled gobshite on the tour at the moment. Fact is she doesn't really like doing press conferences (which I can imagine is the same for most athletes in any sport to be fair) and she couldn't be arsed, so she played the mental health card in a desperate attempt to get out of them. Then when she is called out for her nonsense, she fully throws the toys out of the pram and quits. It's no loss to her anyway, she's shite on clay and wouldn't have gone far. Pathetic.

Never liked her since she pulled out of some minor tournament before the US Open last year (having already reached the final) to "bring awareness" to the BLM movement. If I was a player she had knocked out in the earlier rounds I'd be very pissed off.

Also, why not pull out of the much higher-profile US Open instead if you want to make a real statement?? I'll tell you why: $$$$$$$$$$
U ok hon?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sick Boy

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
9,977
6,371
213
The sponsorship contracts have stipulations to provide interviews. Not one player other than Djokovic once hasn’t abided by these rules

I believe she’s the highest paid woman on sport based off sponsorship which requires personal engagement and that’s that

Its how it works - technically the contract states you have to give interviews within 30 minutes but the stadium organisers bend over backwards and let players have far more time.

You don’t understand how it works so there’s no point in continuing the discussion
No. I understand how it works. What you don't understand is I'm looking at different ways in COULD work. As I pointed out above they could structure it many different ways to feel like less of a burden. It's a fuck you to the players so organisers can bend over backwards for the £££ of the media and sponsors.

As it stands of course she's in breach of contract. So it's the contracts that need changing in the future. But it's not a situation that will change unless someone big in the game breaks it. If everyone just complies despite hating doing it they'll just continue and probably try to become even more intrusive. Throw a bot more money at the governing body and hey presto - interviews during the breaks between games. In football, managers having to give vox pops on the sideline during games to ask how they think it's going or why they made such and such a decision? Players having to give interviews directly after scoring a goal? Players mic'ed up in games or wearing bodycams? Give an inch they take a mile.

What would the torunament organ isers do if all the top players got together and said 'we're not doing it like this anymore'? Kick them all out? Which do you think would gain the most ire from spectators? The players for not doing interviews or the organisers for kicking out all the best players so the fans can't watch them play tennis? Are they watching because they want to see them play tennis or give interviews?
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
9,977
6,371
213
If she has mental health issues and cant cope with the media circus that surrounds big tournaments, then she did the right thing in pulling out.
But I dont think anything should be done to change the way tournaments are run.
Part of being a top player is learning to deal with the pressure of being at the top of the sport, some can handle it, some can't if one player drops out, another has an opportunity to make a name for themselves.
The players have time to prepare Mentally as well as physically between tournaments, and winners are those who can cope with all the pressures thrown at them.
So let's say Messi and Ronaldo couldn't handle doing interviews and so never became footballers because of it. World misses out on arguably the two greatest players to ever grace a field because of nothing to do with their ability on the field but because they don't like doing the things off it Meanwhile, Kastaneer (or Biamou for G's sake) has a twenty year career because they revel in it. Decent trade off?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
59,936
18,236
813
No. I understand how it works. What you don't understand is I'm looking at different ways in COULD work. As I pointed out above they could structure it many different ways to feel like less of a burden. It's a fuck you to the players so organisers can bend over backwards for the £££ of the media and sponsors.

As it stands of course she's in breach of contract. So it's the contracts that need changing in the future. But it's not a situation that will change unless someone big in the game breaks it. If everyone just complies despite hating doing it they'll just continue and probably try to become even more intrusive. Throw a bot more money at the governing body and hey presto - interviews during the breaks between games. In football, managers having to give vox pops on the sideline during games to ask how they think it's going or why they made such and such a decision? Players having to give interviews directly after scoring a goal? Players mic'ed up in games or wearing bodycams? Give an inch they take a mile.

What would the torunament organ isers do if all the top players got together and said 'we're not doing it like this anymore'? Kick them all out? Which do you think would gain the most ire from spectators? The players for not doing interviews or the organisers for kicking out all the best players so the fans can't watch them play tennis? Are they watching because they want to see them play tennis or give interviews?
You keep saying you know how it works but with every post prove you don’t

I’m feeling embarrassed for you now and every player of the game would laugh at you
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
9,977
6,371
213
It’s nothing to with prize money it’s contractual obligation
Did she have the right to reject that part of the contract or was it 'sign it or don't play'? Which is co-ercion really. If you enjoyed your job and were really good at it but every single job opportunity to do it stipulated you had to do something you absolutely hated and not particularly related to your ability to do that job every morning and if you didn't agree then no contract at all would you think that was fair?

As I've said, make it a totally different contract for the press etc. If she doesn't do it she gets paid less. Same with her personal sponsors - get paid for the product placement in games and then have added extra for press work/advertising shoots etc.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
59,936
18,236
813
So let's say Messi and Ronaldo couldn't handle doing interviews and so never became footballers because of it. World misses out on arguably the two greatest players to ever grace a field because of nothing to do with their ability on the field but because they don't like doing the things off it Meanwhile, Kastaneer (or Biamou for G's sake) has a twenty year career because they revel in it. Decent trade off?
Never happened has it?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
59,936
18,236
813
Did she have the right to reject that part of the contract or was it 'sign it or don't play'? Which is co-ercion really. If you enjoyed your job and were really good at it but every single job opportunity to do it stipulated you had to do something you absolutely hated and not particularly related to your ability to do that job every morning and if you didn't agree then no contract at all would you think that was fair?

As I've said, make it a totally different contract for the press etc. If she doesn't do it she gets paid less. Same with her personal sponsors - get paid for the product placement in games and then have added extra for press work/advertising shoots etc.
90% of her income includes media engagement
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
9,977
6,371
213
You keep saying you know how it works but with every post prove you don’t

I’m feeling embarrassed for you now and every player of the game would laugh at you
You really can't get the difference between how things ARE and how things COULD BE do you.

I get she signed the contract. I get it had these stipulations in them. I get that the organisers were within their rights to kick her out for not doing them.

What I'm doing it saying how it could change in future to prevent issues like this occurring, and that it would result in a player earning less money because of it. But it should be a choice with added payments for doing them, not part of the basic requirement. That should be 'play tennis'.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
59,936
18,236
813
You really can't get the difference between how things ARE and how things COULD BE do you.

I get she signed the contract. I get it had these stipulations in them. I get that the organisers were within their rights to kick her out for not doing them.

What I'm doing it saying how it could change in future to prevent issues like this occurring, and that it would result in a player earning less money because of it. But it should be a choice with added payments for doing them, not part of the basic requirement. That should be 'play tennis'.
As I said this is a pointless discussion I’m out
 

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2013
1,931
2,559
163
Stratford Upon Avon
But how do we know someone even better never made it because they wanted to avoid that limelight and media intrusion and so decided to quit? Greatest talent the world has even seen ended up being a pen-pusher because of nothing to do with his ability to play the game.
There is the "mythical" Carlovich this applies to. For reference - The Legend of Argentina's Tomas 'El Trinche' Carlovich - You make a really valid point. It's so easy to rubbish (especially someone who likes to blindly rubbish everything) but there are undoubtedly massive talents out there who end up packing it in or not surviving at the highest levels because of shyness/anxiety about being in the spotlight. There's a reason so many 'popstars' end up in terrible ways at early ages. It's one thing playing a faceless/nameless villain on a Coventry City forum with about 100 people knowing your profile, it takes slightly larger cojones to have your sporting pedigree questioned in front of the world's press before/after major career disappointment. I can say from experience having anxiety about public speaking isn't a laughing matter & in many occasions you can do just as good a job without some of the meaningless spiel that goes with it. For all the arguments about 'sponsorship', I don't think her sponsors will be too disheartened with being part of an international debate on mental health, with 'their' name at the forefront.
 

PVA

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2011
5,630
3,868
163
There are numerous examples of footballers packing it in for off the field reasons - mental health, stress etc
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2017
3,474
2,929
213
So let's say Messi and Ronaldo couldn't handle doing interviews and so never became footballers because of it. World misses out on arguably the two greatest players to ever grace a field because of nothing to do with their ability on the field but because they don't like doing the things off it Meanwhile, Kastaneer (or Biamou for G's sake) has a twenty year career because they revel in it. Decent trade off?
We may well have already missed out on better players than Messi and Ronaldo, we will never know.
One thing is certain though, if they couldnt handle the pressure of being super stars, they wouldn't be house hold names, which exactly proves my point!
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2008
28,130
16,540
413
Coventry
Quick question about sponsorship.

Lets say company ABC sponsors a player. That player then carries the companies logo on their shirt, they carry out PR and advertising for the company, maybe appear in adverts for them. The player does a post game press conference which see's a one line quote published in the media the following day. If that quote doesn't appear how much does it diminish the value of the sponsorship?

Now say company XYZ sponsors a tournament. Their logo is featured on the advertising for the tournament, around the court and is mentioned on TV coverage "the company XYZ tennis tournament". How is the value of that sponsorship impacted by a player not doing a press conference?

Genuine questions as my gut instinct is that the sponsors want people, both in person and on TV, watching the games and anything else is really of secondary importance in the grand scheme of things but others clearly see it very differently.

And is there not a simple fix for this? Code of conduct for those asking the questions, or even moderation. Maybe I'm being naive but I don't really think there's any need to be questioning female players about their choice of underwear or weight fluctuations as has been reportedly happened in the past.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2008
28,130
16,540
413
Coventry
Just a quick follow up. A dig around on the French Open website, as they aren't exactly prominently featured, shows they have 20 tournament sponsors. Of those 20 there is only 1 whose logo features in the press conferences, the primary sponsor whose logo is also all around the court.

The press conference footage barley even registers on the tournaments own social media let alone anywhere else.

Is that much exposure really being lost if players don't utter a few cliched soundbites post match?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

fatso

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2017
3,474
2,929
213
Quick question about sponsorship.

Lets say company ABC sponsors a player. That player then carries the companies logo on their shirt, they carry out PR and advertising for the company, maybe appear in adverts for them. The player does a post game press conference which see's a one line quote published in the media the following day. If that quote doesn't appear how much does it diminish the value of the sponsorship?

Now say company XYZ sponsors a tournament. Their logo is featured on the advertising for the tournament, around the court and is mentioned on TV coverage "the company XYZ tennis tournament". How is the value of that sponsorship impacted by a player not doing a press conference?

Genuine questions as my gut instinct is that the sponsors want people, both in person and on TV, watching the games and anything else is really of secondary importance in the grand scheme of things but others clearly see it very differently.

And is there not a simple fix for this? Code of conduct for those asking the questions, or even moderation. Maybe I'm being naive but I don't really think there's any need to be questioning female players about their choice of underwear or weight fluctuations as has been reportedly happened in the past.
The sponsors pay top money to potential winners to have their name and logo on the shirt that is worn when the trophy is held aloft, and hence in the photo and video that is shown worldwide. (This is why footballers are booked for removing their shirts after scoring)

You dont hear about players handing their sponsorship money back when they withdraw from tournaments part way through due to pressure do you?

And few ever say they can't cash their cheque due to mental health issues.

In Osaka's case, she either learns to deal with the pressures of being at the top level, or she falls by the way side and someone else who can handle things will take her place.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2008
28,130
16,540
413
Coventry
The sponsors pay top money to potential winners to have their name and logo on the shirt that is worn when the trophy is held aloft, and hence in the photo and video that is shown worldwide. (This is why footballers are booked for removing their shirts after scoring)
Unless I've missed something she wasn't refusing to wear her sponsors logo on her shirt. So every piece of footage of her from the tournament would carry that logo. Now she's not playing it won't.
 

Hertsccfc

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
701
586
143
I watch a lot of tennis and indeed have been to the French Open in the past. I have to say I have never watched a press conference or even post match interview featuring a player. I can't imagine that I am unusual in this as a tennis fan.

There has to be something wrong when arguably the best woman player in the world is not playing, because she can't do a press conference, when she would be able to play tennis.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2011
3,146
1,328
213
Did she have the right to reject that part of the contract or was it 'sign it or don't play'? Which is co-ercion really. If you enjoyed your job and were really good at it but every single job opportunity to do it stipulated you had to do something you absolutely hated and not particularly related to your ability to do that job every morning and if you didn't agree then no contract at all would you think that was fair?

As I've said, make it a totally different contract for the press etc. If she doesn't do it she gets paid less. Same with her personal sponsors - get paid for the product placement in games and then have added extra for press work/advertising shoots etc.
Hardly co-ercion if she's aware of the commitments before she signs surely? There's parts of my job I hate, and I dare say a lot of people are in the same boat, but you weigh up the pros and cons before you take the job on. If the goal posts change after you've taken the job, thats a different matter of course.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
59,936
18,236
813
I watch a lot of tennis and indeed have been to the French Open in the past. I have to say I have never watched a press conference or even post match interview featuring a player. I can't imagine that I am unusual in this as a tennis fan.

There has to be something wrong when arguably the best woman player in the world is not playing, because she can't do a press conference, when she would be able to play tennis.
So if every sports person in the world refused interviews and journalists had zero quotes and zero news items you honestly think that’s realistic.

If you are at an event you never watched an after match interview on the main court? Did everyone leave before the interviews?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
59,936
18,236
813
Hardly co-ercion if she's aware of the commitments before she signs surely? There's parts of my job I hate, and I dare say a lot of people are in the same boat, but you weigh up the pros and cons before you take the job on. If the goal posts change after you've taken the job, thats a different matter of course.
Andy Murray hated it. His coach sent him on a media course as it’s an essential requirement
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
9,977
6,371
213
So if every sports person in the world refused interviews and journalists had zero quotes and zero news items you honestly think that’s realistic.

If you are at an event you never watched an after match interview on the main court? Did everyone leave before the interviews?
I was at the US Open and once the matches on Arthur Ashe finished I'd go around for a bit to stretch my legs, get something to eat and drink and watch matches on the outer courts until the next one started. Couldn't give a fuck about the interviews. Seemed like I was far from the only one. Both Djokovic and Federer played that day.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2008
28,130
16,540
413
Coventry
For all the arguments about 'sponsorship', I don't think her sponsors will be too disheartened with being part of an international debate on mental health, with 'their' name at the forefront.
Certainly looks that way.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2011
59,936
18,236
813
Certainly looks that way.
lol what else are they going to say in public and it’s free exposure
 
  • Like
Reactions: RegTheDonk