One Step Forward 3 back TYPICAL! (5 Viewers)

The ironic thing is Ray Ranson was quite upfront at the start when they took over telling us that they needed 22,000 to break even.

We didn't meet that level, to had to cut costs, lesser players led to lesser performance, led to further reduction in attendance figures, led to further cost cutting, let to less quality of players, led to relegation, which will lead to lower crowd which lead to further cuts......etc.

And that will happen whoever is in charge unless you get an abronovich or sheik mansouri.

The "to renew or not to renew" debate is a tough one with sensible arguments on both sides.

I got my first season ticket in 1976 (the first year my folks allowed me to make what was then a 3 hour journey to Cov). There were a few years inbetween when I didn't have one (playing football each Saturday, moving "up north" and starting a family) but I've now had one each year since 1992.

I had my call from the club yesterday asking if I was going to renew our 4 tickets. I said that I wasn't at this stage. I said that I was going to wait and see what happened to the squad before I decided what to do. I don't expect "big signings", but it's more that I'm concerned that the squad will again be decimated (actually, for the literalists out there, only losing one in ten would be a great result!) and we'll end up with the youth team and maybe a couple of free transfers.

The sales guy was very good (a good innovation under SISU's ownership btw). He empathised, said how TF had improved things since he came in and pointed out that if I left it too long and missed the "early bird" offers, I'd end up paying a higher price. I said that if I believed the club was moving in the right direction, I'd happilly pay the extra - it's just that at the moment, I'm afraid I have no confidence that the owners are looking to do the right thing for the club.

Will people holding back convince SISU to cut further, or convince them that they need to do something positive to get people back on board? I can't be sure, but my call is that their default position is (and will be) to cut, cut and cut again and that consequently we have to try to do something to persuade them that this strategy will only lead them into deeper financial problems.

ok - so if Ranson was some how involved with the Hoffman bid - would we be any better off :-


"Thankfully, we are probably the only club in the world without an overdraft, and I am not joking about that. We have an investment group behind us, SISU Capital, and we are trying to reduce our monthly losses.

"I will never promise anything at this club apart from that I will leave it in better shape than I found it"

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Now+that+the+club+is+stable,+the+priority's+the+team%3B+Ray+Ranson...-a0190360086

skybluesam66 said:

re the debt

Bobby Gould 1994 - we were £1.5m in debt and about to sell Phil Babb to liverpool for £3m to cover this
Bryan Richardson 2001 - When I left, the club had a 7.5m overdraft
Ray Ranson - 2009 - this club is debt free, and is a model for all football clubs

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But

1994 club had total liabilities £7m total assets £8.4m
2001 club had total liabilities £59.6m total assets £47.4m (CCFC Group)
2009 club had total liabilities £34.8m total assets £22.7m (SBS&L Group)

never has been debt free, never had only a bank overdraft ............. fans never really been told the facts by any owners of the club

DazzleTommyDazzle said:

The "to renew or not to renew" debate is a tough one with sensible arguments on both sides.

I got my first season ticket in 1976 (the first year my folks allowed me to make what was then a 3 hour journey to Cov). There were a few years inbetween when I didn't have one (playing football each Saturday, moving "up north" and starting a family) but I've now had one each year since 1992.

I had my call from the club yesterday asking if I was going to renew our 4 tickets. I said that I wasn't at this stage. I said that I was going to wait and see what happened to the squad before I decided what to do. I don't expect "big signings", but it's more that I'm concerned that the squad will again be decimated (actually, for the literalists out there, only losing one in ten would be a great result!) and we'll end up with the youth team and maybe a couple of free transfers.

The sales guy was very good (a good innovation under SISU's ownership btw). He empathised, said how TF had improved things since he came in and pointed out that if I left it too long and missed the "early bird" offers, I'd end up paying a higher price. I said that if I believed the club was moving in the right direction, I'd happilly pay the extra - it's just that at the moment, I'm afraid I have no confidence that the owners are looking to do the right thing for the club.

Will people holding back convince SISU to cut further, or convince them that they need to do something positive to get people back on board? I can't be sure, but my call is that their default position is (and will be) to cut, cut and cut again and that consequently we have to try to do something to persuade them that this strategy will only lead them into deeper financial problems.

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I took the same view as you last season. However the sales team let me buy our season tickets at 'early-bird' prices and agreed to refund my money at any time before the start of the season if I was unhappy with the quality and depth of the squad. You could ask them if they would consider a similar deal this season.

ps Use a credit card to buy - then you'll be covered if it does go tits up.

Becacuse I've renewed, I've guaranteed my place at both the Play Off final and The JPT final! Phew! :thinking about:

TheRoyalScam said:

I took the same view as you last season. However the sales team let me buy our season tickets at 'early-bird' prices and agreed to refund my money at any time before the start of the season if I was unhappy with the quality and depth of the squad. You could ask them if they would consider a similar deal this season.

ps Use a credit card to buy - then you'll be covered if it does go tits up.

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He did offer that option, but I took the view that a "potential cancellation" would have less impact than a non-renewal.

Don't get me wrong, I know that neither will have much impact (if any), but it's just trying to "do something".

KDuffy, I'm no rocker or anything, but I loved this while I was at school. Remember Gillan being on TOTP with the bald bass player. His version of Trouble was good too.

torchomatic said:

[video=youtube;6Oc8GE1Nnm0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oc8GE1Nnm0[/video]

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"Mutual Destruction"? What is this, a nuclear conflict? What a bunch of dicks! That's my mind made up, they won't get another penny off me.

:blue::blue::blue:

oldskyblue58 said:

Coventry City withhold Ricoh Arena rent for second month - title

“This isn’t a case of us saying ‘we’re not paying it’ TF............... errr yes it is

The discussions are holding up plans for next season as manager Andy Thorn’s playing budget is dependent on the club establishing its income. ,........... why? either the budget is there or it is not

Someone please explain to me why ACL have to slash the rent (the CT seem to think a figure like Ipswichs £112k is appropriate) and then also surrender its income streams to CCFC for nothing. What annual benefit to ACL is there if it has no income, how does ACL pay its staff and liabilities?

There is a concerted media campaign going on by CCFC and SISU - all concerned need to be very careful. As TF said this is not about the rent - this is about the very future of the stadium..... SISU want it and they want it for nothing

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I don't think you are being fair to TF. Nowhere does he say he wants the rent down to Ipswich level. It may be a reasonable number, but so could £250t or £25t.
As I have said a few times now, I think the figure should be variable and reflected by the number of attendants, what league we're in and even if it's a cup match.

It also seems unfair to TF when you say that sisu want the income streams for nothing. I can't read that anywhere.
Quote TF: "There has to be detailed discussions about what access to revenues the club should have and whether it’s achievable without breaking the ACL model."

I read you as you think sisu want the whole stadium for free. Again, I haven't seen anything anywhere (except from the usual suspects on this board) that sisu is trying to get the stadium for free.

Is this a concerted media campaign as you claim? Well, I would like to think so - it's about time the board spoke up ... you know: Start to communicate. But sadly I don't think it was their intention. They didn't pay the rent in an effort to get some meaningful discussion started with those who control the rent. It was not the board or sisu who first told the rent wasn't paid, and they never confirmed it until everybody knew.

Finally, as the rent is now a huge percentage of the cost budget for next season it makes sense AT are not told what he can spend on wages until that issue is solved. And as sisu have already made it very clear that this club must be self sustainable, I see no surprise in the fact that if the rent is not lowered AT won't have much money left for wages.

oldskyblue58 said:

Coventry City withhold Ricoh Arena rent for second month - title

“This isn’t a case of us saying ‘we’re not paying it’ TF............... errr yes it is

The discussions are holding up plans for next season as manager Andy Thorn’s playing budget is dependent on the club establishing its income. ,........... why? either the budget is there or it is not

Someone please explain to me why ACL have to slash the rent (the CT seem to think a figure like Ipswichs £112k is appropriate) and then also surrender its income streams to CCFC for nothing. What annual benefit to ACL is there if it has no income, how does ACL pay its staff and liabilities?

There is a concerted media campaign going on by CCFC and SISU - all concerned need to be very careful. As TF said this is not about the rent - this is about the very future of the stadium..... SISU want it and they want it for nothing

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Exactly, and I can't believe people can't see this. I've been prepared to give them a chance, but it looks like they want something for nothing (Again! Sounds familiar, right ex-shareholders?). They are using blackmail, and are utterly morally bankrupt.

And their Minister of Propagnda can do one, too-he acts like he's "not sure" about our budget when he knows full what what game SISU are playing.

oldskyblue58 said:

Coventry City withhold Ricoh Arena rent for second month - title

“This isn’t a case of us saying ‘we’re not paying it’ TF............... errr yes it is

The discussions are holding up plans for next season as manager Andy Thorn’s playing budget is dependent on the club establishing its income. ,........... why? either the budget is there or it is not

Someone please explain to me why ACL have to slash the rent (the CT seem to think a figure like Ipswichs £112k is appropriate) and then also surrender its income streams to CCFC for nothing. What annual benefit to ACL is there if it has no income, how does ACL pay its staff and liabilities?

There is a concerted media campaign going on by CCFC and SISU - all concerned need to be very careful. As TF said this is not about the rent - this is about the very future of the stadium..... SISU want it and they want it for nothing

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without it CCFC might die.....low rent is better than no rent,negotiations are needed!

Godiva said:

I don't think you are being fair to TF. Nowhere does he say he wants the rent down to Ipswich level. It may be a reasonable number, but so could £250t or £25t.
As I have said a few times now, I think the figure should be variable and reflected by the number of attendants, what league we're in and even if it's a cup match.

It also seems unfair to TF when you say that sisu want the income streams for nothing. I can't read that anywhere.
Quote TF: "There has to be detailed discussions about what access to revenues the club should have and whether it’s achievable without breaking the ACL model."

I read you as you think sisu want the whole stadium for free. Again, I haven't seen anything anywhere (except from the usual suspects on this board) that sisu is trying to get the stadium for free.

Is this a concerted media campaign as you claim? Well, I would like to think so - it's about time the board spoke up ... you know: Start to communicate. But sadly I don't think it was their intention. They didn't pay the rent in an efford to get some meaningful discussion started with those who control the rent. It was not the board or sisu who first told the rent wasn't paid, and they never confirmed it until everybody knew.

Finally, as the rent is now a huge percentage of the cost budget for next season it makes sense AT are not told what he can spend on wages until that issue is solved. And as sisu have already made it very clear that this club must be self sustainable, I see no surprise in the fact that if the rent is not lowered AT won't have much money left for wages.

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They want a rent reduction, for free. They have zero entitlement to that, and it is in no way in ACL or the councils interest financially. Can you say why they should get a rent reduction? Because we got relegated and can no longer afford it? Yes, and whose fault was that, as Fisher himself has admitted? SISU! They are reaping what they sowed.

"Revenues we think the club should have"-yes, and you knew full well when you bought the club that it didn't have them, and how to get them-buy the stadium. That was SISU's stated intention. That they didn't is why we are still in this position-yet they cry like spoilt lickle babies that it's "unfair" and not their fault! It's nobody elses, is it? They blew it.

They are simply playing a PR game that nobody should swallow.

£300 to watch 3rd div football ! Bl**dy hell.!!!

tbf 1.2 million rent is excessive, Ipswich pay a tenth of that according to the telegraph. As someone else said this could be a plan to get fan pressure to decrease the rent.

Ffs in business everything is up for negotiation.

CCFC said:

tbf 1.2 million rent is excessive, Ipswich pay a tenth of that according to the telegraph. As someone else said this could be a plan to get fan pressure to decrease the rent.

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By blackmail? When they knew the facts full well all along-as OSB says, whi is it only an issue now? And in reality, this is bigger than just the rent, it's "the model". WHICH THEY KNEW WAS FLAWED, THAT'S WHY THEY WERE PLANNING TO SPEND UNTIL PROMOTION!

OK it's a rubbish plan, but that too is their/Ranson's fault, no one elses. They need to grow up!

seems some people hate sisu more than they love coventry city fc

Nonleagueherewecome said:

They want a rent reduction, for free. They have zero entitlement to that, and it is in no way in ACL or the councils interest financially. Can you say why they should get a rent reduction? Because we got relegated and can no longer afford it? Yes, and whose fault was that, as Fisher himself has admitted? SISU! They are reaping what they sowed.

"Revenues we think the club should have"-yes, and you knew full well when you bought the club that it didn't have them, and how to get them-buy the stadium. That was SISU's stated intention. That they didn't is why we are still in this position-yet they cry like spoilt lickle babies that it's "unfair" and not their fault! It's nobody elses, is it? They blew it.

They are simply playing a PR game that nobody should swallow.

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I can fully understand the need and desire to play the blame game, to look backwards and point to errors and failures. But what progress will it bring? How will that stand the club in better shape?
There are no credible alternative to sisu, and they have run out of money and can't continue to find millions.
So I can see two alternatives - 1) the costs are cut to match the income, or 2) the club goes out of existence.

You may want option 2, and thats fair enough - it's a stance I can respect.
I want option 1) and the rent if not reduced will account for something like 20% or 25% of all costs (OSB might be able to calculate a more exact number). It must come down.

One thing nobody has raised on this forum is the fact that over the last 3 or 4 years the interest rates have come down a lot. This means that those who owns the stadium have had the chance of re-mortagaging and reduce the cost significantly. I would like to think that could be reflected in a new rent contract as a minimum, but as I said before - I would much rather the rent were based on actual attendance numbers and what league/cup match is played.

Nonleagueherewecome said:

By blackmail? When they knew the facts full well all along-as OSB says, whi is it only an issue now? And in reality, this is bigger than just the rent, it's "the model". WHICH THEY KNEW WAS FLAWED, THAT'S WHY THEY WERE PLANNING TO SPEND UNTIL PROMOTION!

OK it's a rubbish plan, but that too is their/Ranson's fault, no one elses. They need to grow up!

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Not saying they have good morals just saying if they believe the rent is excessive and we can't afford it then they should stand their corner rather than just backing off and saying ok we will pay it at the first hurdle.
The rent has always been an issue I am guessing but now has become a bigger issue now and one they have to tackle due to the money lost from being relegated.

Nonleagueherewecome said:

"Mutual Destruction"? What is this, a nuclear conflict? What a bunch of dicks! That's my mind made up, they won't get another penny off me.

:blue::blue::blue:

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I never knew you were a Gillan fan.

torchomatic said:

Exactly! It's madness. If I want to renew and support my team then I shall. There seems to be an attitude that if you renew then you are somehow being a traitor to the cause. I want a team to support, so I hope my £300 odd helps.

<waits for the "thing is, Torch" replies>

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Agreed and you have that right.

However, you do not have the right to expect the Council tax payers of Coventry to fund your passion......:facepalm:

torchomatic said:

Becacuse I've renewed, I've guaranteed my place at both the Play Off final and The JPT final! Phew! :thinking about:

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Try going to the less glamourous games as well...that would help AT and the lads......:thinking about:

Godiva said:

I don't think you are being fair to TF. Nowhere does he say he wants the rent down to Ipswich level. It may be a reasonable number, but so could £250t or £25t.
As I have said a few times now, I think the figure should be variable and reflected by the number of attendants, what league we're in and even if it's a cup match.

It also seems unfair to TF when you say that sisu want the income streams for nothing. I can't read that anywhere.
Quote TF: "There has to be detailed discussions about what access to revenues the club should have and whether it’s achievable without breaking the ACL model."

I read you as you think sisu want the whole stadium for free. Again, I haven't seen anything anywhere (except from the usual suspects on this board) that sisu is trying to get the stadium for free.

Is this a concerted media campaign as you claim? Well, I would like to think so - it's about time the board spoke up ... you know: Start to communicate. But sadly I don't think it was their intention. They didn't pay the rent in an effort to get some meaningful discussion started with those who control the rent. It was not the board or sisu who first told the rent wasn't paid, and they never confirmed it until everybody knew.

Finally, as the rent is now a huge percentage of the cost budget for next season it makes sense AT are not told what he can spend on wages until that issue is solved. And as sisu have already made it very clear that this club must be self sustainable, I see no surprise in the fact that if the rent is not lowered AT won't have much money left for wages.

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I didnt say TF wanted a rent at £112K I said that the CT thought that was an appropriate figure for a similar club that is Ipswich. I have said quite clearly in another post that the rent needs to be renegotiated - I have no problem with that anf when it comes to the crunch I doubt ACL or its shareholders will either.

so how are they going to get the income streams if they are saying they have no money and cant pay the bills? They cant pay for it can they and because of their own contractual arrangements I do not see how ACL can give it away

Do you not feel it unusual that we have had 3 statements from the club this week two of which went into great detail as to why it was because of everything else that it has failed?

The budget ...... you run a business ....... you tell me if people ever do what if budgets or flex them to take account of possible changes. AS it stands they have either told AT there is a budget to acquire players in current circumstances or there isnt one unless there is a rent reduction and additional income sources (not guaranteed)

We are making what 4m losses a year take out £1m in rent that is still £3m losses and bankruptcy - In previous estimates I thought it should have been nearer break even but taking what JS and TF said clearly not - it isnt the rent that is killing us first and foremost.

The media is important to us not to these discussions between SISU and ACL - so why place such emphasis on doing it now ?

I have never thought both sides as all good or all bad but people need to go into this eyes wide open not shut

SISU and the club have failed in so many ways and yet they expect others to bail them out. The circumstances havent changed in 5 years but the performance of the team and owners has been pretty poor in many areas.

Rent reduction is inevitable but does it not seem to anyone that this is rewarding the failure to deal with core issues for the last 5 years under SISU ?

cheever said:

Try going to the less glamourous games as well...that would help AT and the lads......:thinking about:

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Di you miss the irony in his post howzer...oops sorry i mean cheever

Fans are being used by both sides to justify their arguments. I'm sick of councillors and SISU henchmen proclaiming about 'what's best for the fans' as a basis for their actions-the former are saying it to garner votes and the latter are using it to garner season ticket sales. In actual fact, their actions suggest it's their own interests their putting forward and that is causing the stumbling block.

oldskyblue58 said:

I didnt say TF wanted a rent at £112K I said that the CT thought that was an appropriate figure for a similar club that is Ipswich. I have said quite clearly in another post that the rent needs to be renegotiated - I have no problem with that anf when it comes to the crunch I doubt ACL or its shareholders will either.

so how are they going to get the income streams if they are saying they have no money and cant pay the bills? They cant pay for it can they and because of their own contractual arrangements I do not see how ACL can give it away

Do you not feel it unusual that we have had 3 statements from the club this week two of which went into great detail as to why it was because of everything else that it has failed?

The budget ...... you run a business ....... you tell me if people ever do what if budgets or flex them to take account of possible changes. AS it stands they have either told AT there is a budget to acquire players in current circumstances or there isnt one unless there is a rent reduction and additional income sources (not guaranteed)

We are making what 4m losses a year take out £1m in rent that is still £3m losses and bankruptcy - In previous estimates I thought it should have been nearer break even but taking what JS and TF said clearly not - it isnt the rent that is killing us first and foremost.

The media is important to us not to these discussions between SISU and ACL - so why place such emphasis on doing it now ?

I have never thought both sides as all good or all bad but people need to go into this eyes wide open not shut

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Yes, I run a business and you make your living auditing business like mine. So we are kinda cultured to see things differently

I don't think the club is losing £4m atm. The next set of published accounts (when they get published) may show £4m, but since then cost have come down further. Then take out all non-cash positions and we should not be too far from breakeven cashflow wise. Reducing the rent could actually be just what is needed to get there - or close to there.
Are sisu and Fisher using the higher number to make a more dramatic point? Yes, probably. So would I.

Maybe I am naive, but I think sisu would be able to find additional funds to buy into the stadiums revenue streams on matchday (food, drinks catering ...). Providing this income tips the club into positive figures and starts adding to the valuation of the club.

Yes, it's so out of character that the club suddenly starts to communicate, but why can't we see it as a positive reaction to the fans demands instead of playing the conspiracy card?

I know we all have our own opinions on whether buying a season ticket is right or wrong at the moment. I cant bring myself to do it because i dont trust sisu and why should anyone after the years of lies and false promises. I would be much happier paying a bit more for a matchday ticket "if" sisu have given AT a decent budget to work with. Another thing to consider before buying a season ticket is next seasons opponents. If AT does get to build a good squad, the team do well from the start,then great. But if he isnt given the budget required and results arent going well with low gates, how many games against the likes of hartlepool will be discounted on matchday tickets? No i would rather pay a little extra for a good season than commit £300 to sisu and get shafted again.

dongonzalos said:

Please dont do it to the last minute. try and put a bit of pressure on SISU. They need those season ticket sales but the only time they will give the fans anything to cheer about is if they think they are not selling.

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i will renew mine the day sisu fuck off.

Surprisingly Godiva though my firm does do audits I actually have my own business to run as well

If they can find the extra funds to buy into the stadium income sources why have they never done this ..... in fact why have they never tried until now ....... it is not a new problem and it ain't rocket science. Doesnt say much for their skills or the people they partner or employ really

They are not in a situation where making up higher figures is useful clever or prudent......... if they want ACL etc to help they have to lay it on the line and back up with hard figures. They talk about how bad it is but don't actually prove it.

I welcome talks discussions etc but we need results from all sides not an expectation that ACL and its shareholders should just cave in to SISU demands

What revenues? Pies and pints? CCFC already have all ticket income, they have programmes, matchball, most of the advertising boards etc. If there is a gate of c 12,000 who each buy a pie and a pint the "profit" is probably c£12,000. Now we know that not everyone spends that much. But if they did and there are 22 games that makes £264,000. So smaller gate, only 60% spending that much brings it down to maybe £100,000. That would pay one player just under £2,000 per week gross. Currently players are on £4/5/6/7/8,000 a week.
Rent of £1.2m pays for 2 or 3 players' wages.

We appear to be going round in circles each time we discuss a new statement repeatedly saying similar stuff over and over.

Think there are valid points by everyone.
Regardless of the past it's the here and now we must address.

Rent reduction from previously agreed contracts is not unusual when a substantial change in circumstance occurs.
It very much depends on the agreement of your landlords but conventional wisdom always reflects the outcome in such matters.
(it's a case of how much do the landlords want you there and in the football clubs case very much so)

For CCFC and ACL/Council/Higgs they each have an obligation to look seriously at market trends, the loyalty and strength of anchoring the football club to the Ricoh and the beneficial prospects of the clubs survival to the City of Coventry as a whole when making considerations.

Fisher is pushing that button as hard as he can and wants a solution that's fair and balanced for each side.
I said before, the long term interest is the survival of the football club that pays dividends for all concerned when it succeeds.
Any new agreement will need to be constructed on the basis of where the club is now, include time frames and deadlines for when the club improves (or even gets further relegated!) with a system in place where payback on new agreements is eventually forthcoming.
There can be and will be no necessity for any free hand overs of income streams as so many on here believe. Of course not and no one has suggested so. You don't get given anything for free in this world but and as unique as a major football club is and important to the City, there has to be a concerted effort to assist them financially in the manner I mentioned to the long term benefit of all and wide eyes open with the future in mind.

Once that stall is set out with a pathway to some shared income streams, a reduction of rent while in league 1 (rising on promotions) then SISU can budget a little easier. What ever the outcome of talks they will need a budget regardless, so in good faith of negotiations they need to outline what size budget that can be for this coming year using the outline of these talks to base it on. Delaying a budget for the football club seems to be shooting ones self in the foot. With out this good faith then the conspiracies and distrust will surface suggesting a "give us what we want or we won't do anything and pull the plug instead" type scenario? Fisher must avoid such speculation. They may need to open their books for the other side to see, which would be a reasonable request in the circumstances.

Nothing sinister in with holding the rent temporarily while trying to negotiate what it should be as that 2 month arrears would be affected by whatever is agreed.

A sustained period of operational stability would need to be proven over a number of years before the Council/Higgs could even consider selling stadium assets to the football club whether that be SISU or future owners of CCFC.
IF a new investor arrives on the scene spouting bagfuls of cash for infrastructure around the stadium and purchasing the football club as a 'sum of the whole part' then they can sit down and negotiate those ideas and eventually the football club would own part or all of the stadium.

Wrenstreetcarpark said:

What revenues? Pies and pints? CCFC already have all ticket income, they have programmes, matchball, most of the advertising boards etc. If there is a gate of c 12,000 who each buy a pie and a pint the "profit" is probably c£12,000. Now we know that not everyone spends that much. But if they did and there are 22 games that makes £264,000. So smaller gate, only 60% spending that much brings it down to maybe £100,000. That would pay one player just under £2,000 per week gross. Currently players are on £4/5/6/7/8,000 a week.
Rent of £1.2m pays for 2 or 3 players' wages.

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In the situation the club finds itself even £1 gained is an important step towards survival.
The player wages will be much lower next season - if not dictated by the clubs finances, then by the FFP.

wrenstreet carpark: Your figures for booze and a pie etc are poorly based. With an average attendance of 20k I would suggest this income stream to be in 10's of thousands! I think your local pub turnsover 5 grand a week based on a couple hundred people a week!

can i ask why people think that fisher is there for the good of the club ?? who installed in the position he is in ?? was it SISU ohh yes thats right the company that have put numerious directors in the club and one on the bench and got us relegated, he is there for SISU not CCFC.