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  • Thread starter torchomatic
  • Start date Feb 3, 2015
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #71
Don't disagree. However, it's not really any different to the CT who managed to make an article over hte fairly low number of respondents to the Trust poll.

They're all at it.

oldskyblue58 said:
What are the sources of Mr Reids information. With the greatest of respect to Nii Lamptey and GMK they do not carry much weight as sources and to be fair nor would I on here.
Click to expand...
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #72
dongonzalos said:
'When Wasps played a Heineken Cup match here in 2007, it brought about £6million into the local economy.'

I suppose this could be bull?

And this maybe wrong

Bucks economy millions of pounds a year.

Meanwhile, Claire Prosser, Policy Executive, Buckinghamshire Chamber of Commerce, said: “It’s unfortunate news for Wasps fans and the High Wycombe local business community that the club has decided to move to Coventry.

“Although it is understandable that the decision has been made for financial reasons, the biggest impact will be felt by the hospitality sector in the area, which has served visitors to Adams Park for 12 years. We hope that the rest of the community will support the businesses affected.”

I just can't see it myself though
Click to expand...

£6m means that every visitor spent something like £220 each on top of their ticket. No chance. I certainly don't spend £660 when I go and watch city with my 4 year old and my grandad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
Last edited: Feb 4, 2015

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #73
stupot07 said:
£6m means that every visitor spent something like £220 each on top of their ticket. No chance. I certainly don't spend £660 when I go and watch city with my 4 year old and my grandad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

If I went to Wembley for the play offs I would be near that with Hotel and entertainment.
Don't forget there are other income streams like advertising, hotels, entertainment, corporate, parking, travel ..... I could go on.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #74
stupot07 said:
£6m means that every visitor spent something like £220 each on top of their ticket. No chance. I certainly don't spend £660 when I go and watch city with my 4 year old and my grandad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

Ever heard of the multiplier effect?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #75
italiahorse said:
If I went to Wembley for the play offs I would be near that with Hotel and entertainment.
Don't forget there are other income streams like advertising, hotels, entertainment, corporate, parking, travel ..... I could go on.
Click to expand...

But £6m? £220 per person? Really? We're talking about local economy, not virgin trains, etc. So all 22k that attended stayed in a hotel, etc?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #76
We're not talking about Wembley and a play off final though, are we? You may as well say when I go on holiday...

italiahorse said:
If I went to Wembley for the play offs I would be near that with Hotel and entertainment.
Don't forget there are other income streams like advertising, hotels, entertainment, corporate, parking, travel ..... I could go on.
Click to expand...
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #77
Is that similar to the Desperately Trying To Justify A Franchise Moving 85 Miles To A City Without Any Connection Effect? I get confused over these kind of things.

dongonzalos said:
Ever heard of the multiplier effect?
Click to expand...
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #78
dongonzalos said:
Ever heard of the multiplier effect?
Click to expand...

Yes




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #79
stupot07 said:
But £6m? £220 per person? Really? We're talking about local economy, not virgin trains, etc. So all 22k that attended stayed in a hotel, etc?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

It's not just fans on the day it's the knock on effect.
Businesses get a feel good factor and invest in their infrastructure.
Coventry gets recognition for tourism, business etc for years to come.
Could even say Wasps may not be here now if they never came that year.
It's always a 'loose', certainly optimistic calculation, more for selling the event decision than can actually be proven to be right or wrong.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #80
torchomatic said:
Is that similar to the Desperately Trying To Justify A Franchise Moving 85 Miles To A City Without Any Connection Effect? I get confused over these kind of things.
Click to expand...

No it's just this ........

Every time there is an injection of new demand into the circular flow there is likely to be a multiplier effect. This is because an injection of extra income leads to more spending, which creates more income, and so on. The multiplier effect refers to the increase in final income arising from any new injection of spending.

It's easy to get confused, especially when the heart rules over the head.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #81
stupot07 said:
Yes




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

There's your answer then.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #82
torchomatic said:
Is that similar to the Desperately Trying To Justify A Franchise Moving 85 Miles To A City Without Any Connection Effect? I get confused over these kind of things.
Click to expand...

They can justify it on finances but never on the morals of it.
Only time will tell on the first part.

Is it best to exist financially or go out of business based on your morals ?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #83
dongonzalos said:
There's your answer then.
Click to expand...

Not really, because I don't buy it, and I'm sure there are no cold hard figures to actually back it up....and they ballsed up the figures anyway, said 28k were at that wasps match when there were only 22k.

Either that or our game on Saturday brought in around £1.7m into the local economy....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
 
Last edited: Feb 4, 2015

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #84
stupot07 said:
Not really, because I don't buy it, and I'm sure there are no cold hard figures to actually back it up....

Either that or our game on Saturday brought in around £1.7m into the local economy....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...


Perhaps you can ask Rob Stevens where he got his figures about the benefit of Sky Blues playing in Coventry from, he said £20M lost because Sky Blues not here? That is the best part of £1M per game..

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/any-sky-blues-return-must-6353243
Fellow campaigner Rob Stevens had called for a survey on the economic impact on Coventry of the Sky Blues playing games outside of the city, adding: “We estimate that about £20million is being lost in the city each season without the club here.”
Click to expand...
 
Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
J

John_Silletts_Nose

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #85
Captain Dart said:
Perhaps you can ask Rob Stevens where he got his figures about the benefit of Sky Blues playing in Coventry from, he said £20M lost because Sky Blues not here? That is the best part of £1M per game..

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/any-sky-blues-return-must-6353243
Click to expand...

Rob Stevens appears to have changed in his approach having achieved his group's aim of Get Cov Back to the Ricoh, he no longer posts on this board, although I suspect he still reads it.

Given his closer proximity to SISU Capital than most fans, having previously been invited to an all day meeting and other meetings, it would be interesting to hear his views.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #86
dongonzalos said:
Ever heard of the multiplier effect?
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is that coventry staying in Northampton for one year cost the local economy around £60 million?

Yes of course it did.
 

JimmyHillsbeard

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #87
Captain Dart said:
Perhaps you can ask Rob Stevens where he got his figures about the benefit of Sky Blues playing in Coventry from, he said £20M lost because Sky Blues not here? That is the best part of £1M per game..

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/any-sky-blues-return-must-6353243
Click to expand...

pretty certain that the Council line at the time was that it would be impossible to do an Economic Impact assessement. Now it's happy to accept the provision of one for the impact of London Wasps moving in.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #88
JimmyHillsbeard said:
pretty certain that the Council line at the time was that it would be impossible to do an Economic Impact assessement. Now it's happy to accept the provision of one for the impact of London Wasps moving in.
Click to expand...

Actually no one has done such a study for Coventry have they? So all the figures bandied about for Wasps or CCFC are probably made up.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #89
stupot07 said:
Not really, because I don't buy it, and I'm sure there are no cold hard figures to actually back it up....and they ballsed up the figures anyway, said 28k were at that wasps match when there were only 22k.

Either that or our game on Saturday brought in around £1.7m into the local economy....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Click to expand...

I don't actually know who is the author of the 6 million figure.
However saying that it is still quite straight forward financially

Ricoh - no wasps no ccfc = bad for the economy
Ricoh - CCFC ( stating they are here temporarily before moving) not great for the economy.
Ricoh - CCFC & Wasps best scenario for the economy
Ricoh Wasps only second best for the economy out of the other choices

To not accept that wasps been at the Ricoh has a positive effect on the local economy would be bizarre to say the least.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #90
Grendel said:
So what you are saying is that coventry staying in Northampton for one year cost the local economy around £60 million?

Yes of course it did.
Click to expand...

Yes thats exactly what I said word for word........

 
Last edited: Feb 4, 2015

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #91
Captain Dart said:
Actually no one has done such a study for Coventry have they? So all the figures bandied about for Wasps or CCFC are probably made up.
Click to expand...

I think that's the point he's making
 

DazzleTommyDazzle

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #92
These xxxx costs the economy £xxx million/billion (delete as applicable) "studies" always strike me as total bollocks.

Take a couple of facts, throw in a few (probably) tenuous assumptions and multiply them all out so that you can get a good headline.

Flu costs the British economy £xxx
Bad backs cost the British economy £yyy
Motorway holdups cost the British economy £zzz
etc etc

I'm always amazed there's any British economy left at all (Mr Cameron assures us that there is ).
 
S

SimonGilbert

Telegraph Tea Boy
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #93
torchomatic said:
Don't disagree. However, it's not really any different to the CT who managed to make an article over hte fairly low number of respondents to the Trust poll.

They're all at it.
Click to expand...

To be fair, the article was focused on the fact that the biggest single supporters' group has significantly changed its stance in relation to the club's owners.

The method of choosing to adopt that stance can be debated - and the numbers were included in the story for people to make their own minds up.
 
Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #94
DazzleTommyDazzle said:
These xxxx costs the economy £xxx million/billion (delete as applicable) "studies" always strike me as total bollocks.

Take a couple of facts, throw in a few (probably) tenuous assumptions and multiply them all out so that you can get a good headline.

Flu costs the British economy £xxx
Bad backs cost the British economy £yyy
Motorway holdups cost the British economy £zzz
etc etc

I'm always amazed there's any British economy left at all (Mr Cameron assures us that there is ).
Click to expand...

...they also forget the fact that (wo)man is social first, economic somewhat further down the scale.

(apologies to all accountants!)
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #95
i thought i remembered a rep of the local Chamber of commerce/business association putting a much higher cost equivalent per game to the local economy when we were moved to Northampton.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #96
If you add the projected loss to the local economy if the sky blues move out again (as they are promising to) to the projected figure Wasps bring to the economy. You will arrive at the figure the head of CCC would have had to contemplate if she said no to wasps and CCFC buggered off.

It's crap for us Cov fans but not that hard to understand if you are rational about it.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #97
Will an independent auditor suffice?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #98
dongonzalos said:
If you add the projected loss to the local economy if the sky blues move out again (as they are promising to) to the projected figure Wasps bring to the economy. You will arrive at the figure the head of CCC would have had to contemplate if she said no to wasps and CCFC buggered off.

It's crap for us Cov fans but not that hard to understand if you are rational about it.
Click to expand...

What was the impact on the economy for the year the club was missing?

Also when we were there gates were in decline and are half what they were so over the 10 years by the councils own calculation about £110 million was lossed. What's the real impact of this?
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #99
dongonzalos said:
Will an independent auditor suffice?
Click to expand...

Not if their independent audit ends up with innuendo directed towards them as per the football club administrator and liquidator.
 

DazzleTommyDazzle

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #100
Deleted member 5849 said:
...they also forget the fact that (wo)man is social first, economic somewhat further down the scale.

(apologies to all accountants!)
Click to expand...

You know what they used to do with heratics, don't you,,,,
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #101
Grendel said:
What was the impact on the economy for the year the club was missing?

Also when we were there gates were in decline and are half what they were so over the 10 years by the councils own calculation about £110 million was lossed. What's the real impact of this?
Click to expand...

The council did a calculation for the loss to the economy of CCFC moving to Northampton?
What was it?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #102
dongonzalos said:
The council did a calculation for the loss to the economy of CCFC moving to Northampton?
What was it?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that they did a calculation at all.

What I suspect is their is some standard calculation for this. That calculation will include all possible expenditure including fuel.

Even with that it's still rubbish. The same source over egged the crowd by 6,000.

Also this local economy thing is total bollocks isn't it. Who benefits from Ricoh crowds? Large plc's at the arena and large pub chains mostly. In fact even the telegraph article quoted a large pub chain.

Jobs aren't created from 20 days a year. In fact the only thing that will happen is low paid staff working harder for their meagre wage. As they play on a Sunday workers in The Arena may have to give up a day on a family day thereby impacting their quality of life negatively.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #103
Grendel said:
I'm not sure that they did a calculation at all.

What I suspect is their is some standard calculation for this. That calculation will include all possible expenditure including fuel.

Even with that it's still rubbish. The same source over egged the crowd by 6,000.

Also this local economy thing is total bollocks isn't it. Who benefits from Ricoh crowds? Large plc's at the arena and large pub chains mostly. In fact even the telegraph article quoted a large pub chain.

Jobs aren't created from 20 days a year. In fact the only thing that will happen is low paid staff working harder for their meagre wage. As they play on a Sunday workers in The Arena may have to give up a day on a family day thereby impacting their quality of life negatively.
Click to expand...

Do these large chains & PLC's bus in their employees from outside the area or do they recruit locally?
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #104
There is no question
Jobs will be created and/or saved.
Spending goes up.

Can't be arsed to explain again about the multiplier effect.

One bloke getting a temp job stacking shelves at tescos as a result of the increase spending. He then has money to spend and rents a place in Coventry. The landlord earns money...... You get the picture.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 4, 2015
  • #105
dongonzalos said:
There is no question
Jobs will be created and/or saved.
Spending goes up.

Can't be arsed to explain again about the multiplier effect.

One bloke getting a temp job stacking shelves at tescos as a result of the increase spending. He then has money to spend and rents a place in Coventry. The landlord earns money...... You get the picture.
Click to expand...

A temporary job for 2 hours a week for 20 weeks a year. So they earn £200 a year? Then they rent a house in Coventry? Oh dear..........

In fact;
http://www.jobnut.co.uk/jobs/coventry/Job-Tesco-Vacancy.html

Multiplier effect working everywhere but Coventry by the look of it. Perhaps they hop off to Bedworth to get their £230 worth of spend each.
 
Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
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