Gaz
Well-Known Member
So he does go mental at his players at times and has a good record of getting teams promoted.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Must be doing somthing right then.
Very rarely actually - most of the time he reserves it for opposition players, managers and referees.
No one is vilifying him but his employment as manager will more than likely end up being detrimental to the club long-term. To me, it is essential we go up this season else we are in serious trouble.
Of course it isn't, if it was then people would still be critical even if he was successful, which certainly wouldn't be the case.
Of course it isn't, if it was then people would still be critical even if he was successful, which certainly wouldn't be the case.
It is not personal with anyone.
I'm sorry, you're wrong. I'm not saying its you, but there are some posters who come on to just spout nonsense about the bloke.
Although, unless I am mistaken, Grendel has opined that he would still call for his head if we went up this season.
It staggered me that you would maintain your fiercely anti-Thorn stance (i.e. probably 98% of your comments on here relate to Thorn, so there is little wonder so many threads on here are so circular), even if we were promoted back to the Championship. It smacked of someone who was more tied up with being proved right than the development of the club they support (a claim you have started to attribute to the opposition with some regularity). I asked about it and you responded that you thought he was detrimental to our club. When given the proviso that we finish and stay up the next season, you said you still wanted him out. You then dropped the point and moved on to something that betrayed your huge bias a little less. If the question you posed is not rhetorical and you genuinely need a response, let me know.
Yes, of course. Do you think that is exactly the same thing as replacing the manager? Is it relevant?
The question was posed and my answer was I would still believe him to be incapable of making a step up to Championship level and actually was not the only one who expressed that view. Th squad should be competitive in this league anyway but would have no chance if we got promoted.
So if we get promoted you would not change any players - after all they got us there?
Shouting at players is only wrong when Thorn does it, it is fine for anyone else, when Thorn does it, it demoralises the players.
If he started trying to encourage and put the arm around the shoulder then Thorn is not motivating them to play well and by doing this he is letting the players know mediocre is acceptable
When did I mention your personal dislike for Thorn? You are starting to lose me, let me know what I am saying and how you are countering it. I hope I don't end up looking foolish, just watch how it all pans out for me..?
Point 9 damage to their vehicles?
who damaged their cars?
People say that some posters (one assumes me, Sick Boy, Summerisle) have a vendetta against Thorn - it is personal. I am merely trying to illustrate the comment is ridiculous it is not personal you change staff to suit.
The fact is if Thorn gets the club promoted he is going nowhere. However many managers get clubs promoted and then get the boot that season when they struggle (Warnock last season and look at Phil Brown). So the comment is not especially outlandish but is not relevant as promotion will be very unlikely and he will remain in the job at least until we see how we did in the championship.
In truth what I get really irritated by is the holier than though attitide by some on here who seem almost to suggest it is beneath them to debate the issue. Given the recent history of the club I find that incredible especially as it is the main topic on phone-in's and other message boards.
Also I never start the discussion and often someone says some over positive comment about him which starts me off.
I will try and refrain in future.
I'm guessing the first comment is referring to me? But I even said you haven't been personal. I said some users. Which I completely stand by.
People say that some posters (one assumes me, Sick Boy, Summerisle) have a vendetta against Thorn - it is personal. I am merely trying to illustrate the comment is ridiculous it is not personal you change staff to suit.
The fact is if Thorn gets the club promoted he is going nowhere. However many managers get clubs promoted and then get the boot that season when they struggle (Warnock last season and look at Phil Brown). So the comment is not especially outlandish but is not relevant as promotion will be very unlikely and he will remain in the job at least until we see how we did in the championship.
In truth what I get really irritated by is the holier than though attitide by some on here who seem almost to suggest it is beneath them to debate the issue. Given the recent history of the club I find that incredible especially as it is the main topic on phone-in's and other message boards.
Also I never start the discussion and often someone says some over positive comment about him which starts me off.
I will try and refrain in future.
The secret of good management is knowing how to get the best out of an individual - there are some who only respond to being yelled at, some who will go even further into their shell if shouted at, some who will become belligerent and do the opposite to what they are asked if shouted at, some who respond well to a quiet friendly word and arm around the shoulder, others who see this as weakness and take advantage, some who can have a discussion about something others who just need to be told etc etc. This is where people like Ferguson, Shankley, Clough were/are brilliant - being a good manager isn't all just about tactics and being witty and urbane in interviews, its also about man management and knowing what works best for each individual.
Also I never start the discussion and often someone says some over positive comment about him which starts me off.
I think some of the recent "anti Thorn" comments on here have been faintly ridiculous - in particular the fuss about the post match comments from Yeovil - however I'm inclined to agree with OSB's observations about too much shouting at individual players - particularly the younger ones.
It must be extremely difficult for Thorn, Shaw, Carsley and Oggy since they are more technically gifted than any of the players under there command. If instructions are given and you then see players dis regarding them due to percieved lack of confidence or ability or stubboness I think you would shout at them. Do people really expect them to stand there and say "Billy old chap - mark the number 10 a bit tighter old chap would you only he is getting past you every time" or a good old shout , yell and explitive to get the message across? Or perhaps you suggest you hand them a well written note - get real - has to be shouted out and they will know what makes them respond. We have no idea since we o not know andy of the individuals.
Lets get behind them tomorrow and particularly Saturday which will in my minbd be the acid test.
PUSB
It must be extremely difficult for Thorn, Shaw, Carsley and Oggy since they are more technically gifted than any of the players under there command. If instructions are given and you then see players dis regarding them due to percieved lack of confidence or ability or stubboness I think you would shout at them. Do people really expect them to stand there and say "Billy old chap - mark the number 10 a bit tighter old chap would you only he is getting past you every time" or a good old shout , yell and explitive to get the message across? Or perhaps you suggest you hand them a well written note - get real - has to be shouted out and they will know what makes them respond. We have no idea since we o not know andy of the individuals.
Lets get behind them tomorrow and particularly Saturday which will in my minbd be the acid test.
PUSB
Dont think anyone is saying dont shout at the player, we all know it goes on in sport and accept it .......... but make it constructive. If the coaching staff have to resort to prolonged angry shouting in the first match of the season to get the message across after 7 weeks of pre season, then that makes me query what is going on. If the coach/manager cant keep their composure then that is often reflected on the pitch. Many messages lose the intended meaning when said in a consistent angry manner. Bottom line though is if the player isnt doing what is asked the coach/manager has the power (all game) to change it.
not saying cant get angry either ......... but focus it and use it to positive effect ........... sooner or later players just ignore an constantly angry coach and switch off even when he isnt angry
It isnt about getting real, or being nice or gentlemanly......... it is about using and understanding the tools you have as player, manager or coach to get the best out of the team ........... prolonged consistent angry shouting is not a great tool to use.
and nope this is not an attack on AT ...... it applies to any coach or manager
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