now it’s becoming a reality moving from the ricoh - Letter from EFL to CCFC (1 Viewer)

clint van damme said:

Rangers had already been liquidated, the vote was whether to let the phoenix club back in to the SPL.
Different scenario though one we might find ourselves in depending on how things pan out.

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Different scenario yes, but it’s a perfect example that shows EFL members may not be as sympathetic as many on here believe them to be if/when the vote is cast. It’s not as simple of ‘they can’t/won’t do that because we’re Coventry City’

JamesCCFC said:

I wouldn’t bank on that. Rangers were completely sold down the river when a vote was cast back in 2012. 10/12 chairmen voted for them to be expelled from the SPL. I wouldn’t expect a shred of sympathy from any club if I’m honest.

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I would - it sets a dangerous precedent they would want to avoid

JamesCCFC said:

Different scenario yes, but it’s a perfect example that shows EFL members may not be as sympathetic as many on here believe them to be if/when the vote is cast. It’s not as simple of ‘they can’t/won’t do that because we’re Coventry City’

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The Rangers example isn't a fair comparison IMO. One of the reasons that most of the clubs in the Scottish structure wanted them demoted to start again is that Rangers bring tons of fans everywhere they go. If you're a Scottish Lg2 club who might only get to play Rangers in the cup, you'd definitely be voting for them to start in the lower reaches so you can take the money of thousands of fans buying tickets at your ground twice a season.

Grendel said:

I would - it sets a dangerous precedent they would want to avoid

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We’ll see. The only section of clubs I can see us getting sympathy from in all fairness is those who have a rental agreement with their stadium or third party ownership and clubs who are in dire straits with their current owners (E.g. Charlton/Bolton etc). As for the rest what do they have to lose or gain for voting us to remain in the EFL?

Orca said:

The Rangers example isn't a fair comparison IMO. One of the reasons that most of the clubs in the Scottish structure wanted them demoted to start again is that Rangers bring tons of fans everywhere they go. If you're a Scottish Lg2 club who might only get to play Rangers in the cup, you'd definitely be voting for them to start in the lower reaches so you can take the money of thousands of fans buying tickets at your ground twice a season.

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The example is more centered on the fact that clubs aren’t invincible. I was having a chat with a friend last night who says there’s zero chance the EFL will vote us out. I just can’t see how anyone can be that confident.

chiefdave said:

I can't imagine any company agreeing to a contract that contained clauses preventing them invoking a legal option if required, also can't imagine any lawyer letting that through without huge alarm bells sounding.

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To be honest it's tried all the time. If you read most of the contracts on User Agreements it contains stuff like "you can't hold us liable for such and such" or "you cannot claim damages etc". They're totally unenforceable if the company hasn't fulfilled necessary steps and safeguards.

SISU could potentially drop their legal challenge to get the deal done, then start entirely new legal proceedings as long as they could claim they had significant new information. They've claimed new info before, only for it to eventually be proven to be next to nothing.

They only need 19 votes to be safe

Nick said:

Are you a real person?

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cc84cov said:

Good point EFL should remove the golden share if they have the power to do so with thr way the clubs being run surely they should be able to step in.

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Before I start , sorry to swear Nick
We have a so called fan actually fucking wishing the EFL would withdraw the Golden fucking share.
Does this clueless fucking twat know that would put us into non league and probably kill the club once and for all.
I've read some fucking shite before but this moron should fuck off forever and go and support some fucker else, as clearly he/she is no fan of Coventry City.
Again sorry Nick

chiefdave said:

Another disgusting statement from the council. If the council genuinely appreciated what the club means to people they would be doing something to ensure its survival.

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Which is why they got a rent deal done last time. During that time SISU have done nothing to try and improve this situation to prevent it occurring again. There has to be a time where you turn around and say "enough is enough". You can turn around to a naughty child and tell them no more, but they'll only stop doing it when you actually follow through on punishment.

Thing is, even IF Wasps were to turn around and say "OK, for the sake of fellow sports fans we'll talk even though you're still suing us" people on here wouldn't be saying "well done Wasps for doing this" it'll be "cunts for letting it get this far"

Nick said:

Its a massive coincidence the pr is ramped up.

How much would a company cost wasps and the council?

I expect Hoffman to be mainstream within 2 weeks.

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It is usually around times like now his face starts turning up in the media again

The Reverend Skyblue said:

Before I start , sorry to swear Nick
We have a so called fan actually fucking wishing the EFL would withdraw the Golden fucking share.
Does this clueless fucking twat know that would put us into non league and probably kill the club once and for all.
I've read some fucking shite before but this moron should fuck off forever and go and support some fucker else, as clearly he/she is no fan of Coventry City.
Again sorry Nick

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It’s probably Dave Johnson

chiefdave said:

Why is there a vote? Surely not having a ground means you can't fulfil your fixtures. What happens when its then the first day of the season and there's still nowhere to play?

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Fines and points deductions? Probably have to forfeit the game rather than re-arrange a date?

fernandopartridge said:

Granted it's a different league but a certain top 4 club has got away with it all season

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But didn't they always have the potential back-up of playing at Wembley if necessary? So they did have somewhere they could fulfil the fixture

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

Fines and points deductions? Probably have to forfeit the game rather than re-arrange a date?

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No failure to fulfil fixtures will end up in expulsion but if it came to it the club will probably have until the day before the first game to resolve it

Lord_Nampil said:

From reading the statement the council put out, its clear they see CCFC and SISU as the same they come as one in their eyes. I think this is a very personal naive stance to take and makes it quite clear they arent willing to help the club.

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So you don't think their stance would chance if the ownership changed? I agree that they consider CCFC as SISU (who do after all exert the control over the club and its parent/operating companies) but I don't think it's that they're not willing to help the club, just not while SISU has control of it.

It's a sad state of affairs but it's been leading to this situation for years.

JamesCCFC said:

I wouldn’t bank on that. Rangers were completely sold down the river when a vote was cast back in 2012. 10/12 chairmen voted for them to be expelled from the SPL. I wouldn’t expect a shred of sympathy from any club if I’m honest.

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You misunderstand the rangers situation. Their club/company was liquidated and they had to apply again for a place in the league

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

There has to be a time where you turn around and say "enough is enough".

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No there doesn't. You let the legal process play out, confident in victory. Rolling one year deal on the current terms with an annual inflation increase until the legals are done then open talks about the longer term - its easy if the parties involved are willing.

David O'Day said:

You misunderstand the rangers situation. Their club/company was liquidated and they had to apply again for a place in the league

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I think James point is you can't rely on the goodwill of other clubs but as was pointed out, we only need 19 to vote in our favour.

Adge said:

If it goes that far (to the EFL meeting in April) I can’t see a majority of clubs voting that they would want us booted out-surely not?

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Well there are 24 teams in L2 who would love to take our place in L1

David O'Day said:

You misunderstand the rangers situation. Their club/company was liquidated and they had to apply again for a place in the league

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As CVD says my point has nothing to do with the Rangers situation itself. It’s pointing to the fact that putting faith into external parties is a huge risk that many still aren’t coming to terms with. 19 votes may not sound like a lot but as CVD is saying, we have to purely rely on goodwill in a model where a number of parties could potentially benefit from our expulsion from the EFL.

A lot of clubs at our level benefit from our tremendous away support

This may be worth £25 k per year each which is material for many at our level

If this does end up going pear-shaped and The Sky Blues drop out of the league I think Sisu will probably persue Wasps on and on to the bitter end - they would be so pissed I think they would throw everything at them!
What a royal fucked up mess!
CCFC have become a pawn in the Sisu/Wasps game of chess.
Fuckers - both of em!

Ashdown said:

2 weeks to possible showdown at the ok corral ! SISU have to be the ones to blink surely.......but then they don't give a fuck about us so maybe they will let us die and walk away.......everyone will lose out though including those arseholes.

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Tbh...I think SISU are the only ones that really don't give a shit.
Even TF at least gives one as his job is on the line if it goes tits-up

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Being realistic it’s still absolutely baffling why SISU are still here , they have ruined us , their own reputation and it will all end with the demise of Coventry city football club , and for what exactly ?

They should consider the offer on the table , they should now start looking to get out .

Enough is enough

I know more than one party is at fault , but the problem started with sisu trying to put people out of business to get the stadium , from then on their future at Coventry city was over , hate them , hate the wasps and hate CCC , all a bunch of cunts

chiefdave said:

No there doesn't. You let the legal process play out, confident in victory. Rolling one year deal on the current terms with an annual inflation increase until the legals are done then open talks about the longer term - its easy if the parties involved are willing.

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That could be going on for a decade or more. The legal process has played out and SISU. But all they then do is attempt to start it all over again and take it right back to the beginning with 'new information' or arguing a totally different point.

Even if SISU won one of their challenges this would then be appealed by the council etc as well. The legal process will never end unless someone forces it to a conclusion.

As I've said before it would be far more sensible and PR savvy for Wasps to be willing to discuss and agree a rental deal in principle (and thus show they're not enemies of the football club and give the club something to show the EFL) but refuse to sign it until legal proceedings are ended.

What could be interesting is if a decision is reached by the court in SISU's favour because then it would be Wasp's continuing the legal proceedings with an appeal.

Any chance of a working relationship is next to zero because there is absolutely no trust or faith. I don't expect the club's owners to back down, as they've managed to get a new deal while continuing litigation in the past and I think will feel confident the same will occur again, but I'm not so sure. If anyone is to blink, I think it may be Wasps so they don't get the bad PR (especially with the talk of expulsion from the league) but I think this time they may well be willing to back it up.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

The legal process has played out

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

That could be going on for a decade or more

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

The legal process will never end unless someone forces it to a conclusion

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Has it played out, got a decade left to run or will it never end?

Its a pretty simple concept. SISU are bound by the laws of the land and the legal process the same as everyone else. However pointless we may think it is they are perfectly entitled to exhaust that process. It is finite and will eventually end. If Wasps and the council are as certain as they appear to be that there is no chance of them being found to be in the wrong let SISU exhaust the process.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

Even if SISU won one of their challenges this would then be appealed by the council etc as well

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

What could be interesting is if a decision is reached by the court in SISU's favour because then it would be Wasp's continuing the legal proceedings with an appeal

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Now this is an interesting point. After all the criticism that has been levelled at SISU for continuing the legal process with appeals would the same criticism apply to CCC and Wasps were they to lose and then appeal.

No EFL member will want to vote ccfc or anyone else out, but if things stay as they are what choice is there, WHERE do we play ?? There’s nowhere inside the city but also where is there outside ?

Evo1883 said:

Being realistic it’s still absolutely baffling why SISU are still here , they have ruined us , their own reputation and it will all end with the demise of Coventry city football club , and for what exactly ?

They should consider the offer on the table , they should now start looking to get out .

Enough is enough

I know more than one party is at fault , but the problem started with sisu trying to put people out of business to get the stadium , from then on their future at Coventry city was over , hate them , hate the wasps and hate CCC , all a bunch of cunts

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But have they ruined their reputation? I wouldn’t say hedge funds cover themselves in glory in general. But, at the moment, don’t they have us running at break even/profit? I’m not really in the know, but I’m sure I’ve seen that the last couple of years (obviously, mainly because of sales). But this is really all they’re worried about, right?

chiefdave said:

If Wasps and the council are as certain as they appear to be that there is no chance of them being found to be in the wrong let SISU exhaust the process.

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This is the bit that I find myself thinking about a lot. Are london wasp afraid of something? Is it just that it is costing them money and resources to deal with it? I don’t really give a toss to be honest, like I don’t give a toss about the financhial goings on in Unilever, GlaxoSmithKline, shell, sainsburys or any other non geographically centred corporate machines.

But the council should surely be prepared to let sisu shoot their bolt and run their course. People love the club (apart from the knob head glory grabber fans around town who seem to take pleasure in our prediament) I just want to see the council accept that Cov are infected with a disease and think about the club underneath that’s been with this city through thick and thin. Just help the club ffs.

oldskyblue58 said:

They only need 19 votes to be safe

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18 with Sunderlands in the bag.

MKdons precedent is that if a major population catchment is not covered by an EFL team, then the EFL will bend the rules to ensure that it is so - assuming the opportunity arises.

chiefdave said:

Has it played out, got a decade left to run or will it never end?

Its a pretty simple concept. SISU are bound by the laws of the land and the legal process the same as everyone else. However pointless we may think it is they are perfectly entitled to exhaust that process. It is finite and will eventually end. If Wasps and the council are as certain as they appear to be that there is no chance of them being found to be in the wrong let SISU exhaust the process.

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Played out with JR1. This was then just followed up with JR2 from a different angle. If that is rejected next month I wouldn't be in the least surprised if they put forward a JR3 for some completely different reason to continue the process. The 'it will never end' was hyperbole and I think you know it was - it will feel never-ending though. There are limitations in statutes to these claims (though I'm not sure what it is) but I've no doubt they will attempt to continue until that time limit expires, or as you put it SISU exhaust the process, Given that time limit and the time it takes to hear such cases, appeals etc that would be over a decade.

All that costs money in legal fees and the oft-used "batter people in court" quote is more accurate in "slowly grind them down". Popular tactic by big business because it's not about who's right or wrong, just who will run out of money first.

In terms of stadium deals, that would mean we could end up being in exactly the same situation next year, and the year after, and the year after that and so on. That's no way to exist as a club and why I'm saying someone has to bring this situation to a conclusion because if not SISU will just continue it for as long as they possibly can. Sadly the only leverage in that situation is to not offer CCFC a deal. As I said above, I think Wasps should show willingness to do the groundwork in negotiating a deal (I assume they'd pretty much just copy-and-paste the current one so wouldn't be that hard) but not sign it unless the court case ends

It really wouldn't surprise me if SISU did eventually win, however unjust that would be. They could lose half a dozen times in the courts and win the seventh on some completely spurious technicality with an administrative or procedural error in the paperwork by CCC/Wasps and IMO is why they're really continuing in the hope they can find it rather than any real sense of wrongdoing/illegality/justice . I hate the term 'Justice System' - it has absolutely nothing to do with justice, only ensuring the law is followed.

chiefdave said:

Now this is an interesting point. After all the criticism that has been levelled at SISU for continuing the legal process with appeals would the same criticism apply to CCC and Wasps were they to lose and then appeal.

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It's an interesting point but one I feel I'm wrong on, because I think this is a decision on whether to allow JR2 rather than the JR itself? That couldn't be appealed so it would still be SISU continuing the litigation and the council defending the action. Could be interesting further in the future though if SISU were allowed the JR and won.