skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s mental health. It’s not a one size fits all thing even within the same illness, everything is on a spectrum.
It’s mental health. It’s not a one size fits all thing even within the same illness, everything is on a spectrum.1 in 100 people are Schizophrenic, not all have violence on their record but if they aren't in the right mind......
It’s mental health. It’s not a one size fits all thing even within the same illness, everything is on a spectrum.
I have a friend who has bipolar. They’ve been committed 3 times, twice voluntary, once by force. They’re diagnosed, medicated and 99.9% of the time function normally. They’re raising a family, very well educated, have a full time job etc. but they have flare ups triggered usually by stress which means that the meds become less effective. The 2 times they voluntarily committed was on the depression side of the curve, the time they were forcibly committed was on the manic side of their curve. They stopped taking their medication and things very quickly escalate. They went missing for a period of time, started posting stuff online that was so batshit crazy you just couldn’t believe the posts were from the person you knew. They’re lucky in many respects. They have a good support network around them in terms of family and friends and in the mental healthcare lottery they happen to have a postcode where mental healthcare is fairly decent by today’s standards, IIRC Nottingham ranks pretty low in that lottery.
I have a friend who has bipolar. They’ve been committed 3 times, twice voluntary, once by force. They’re diagnosed, medicated and 99.9% of the time function normally. They’re raising a family, very well educated, have a full time job etc. but they have flare ups triggered usually by stress which means that the meds become less effective. The 2 times they voluntarily committed was on the depression side of the curve, the time they were forcibly committed was on the manic side of their curve. They stopped taking their medication and things very quickly escalate. They went missing for a period of time, started posting stuff online that was so batshit crazy you just couldn’t believe the posts were from the person you knew. They’re lucky in many respects. They have a good support network around them in terms of family and friends and in the mental healthcare lottery they happen to have a postcode where mental healthcare is fairly decent by today’s standards, IIRC Nottingham ranks pretty low in that lottery.
Yeah I don't really want to go into detail, but I do know for a cast-iron FACT that expecting somebody with paranoid schizophrenia to make a rational choice about their medication or treatment is asking too much on occasion. I also know for a cast iron FACT that support networks ain't what they used to be... and they've never been particularly great tbh.
No shifting of blame or excuses here, just pointed out a couple of FACTSIt seems people are more desperate to blame everybody else rather than the actual murderer.
Hopefully they can have him round for tea if he's released.
To coin a phrase that gets used a lot at the moment, this didn’t happen in a vacuum. The details are still coming out and the truth seems to be that both Nottingham police and now Leicester police missed opportunities to detain him and in the case of the Nottingham Police deliberately lied to the families about why that didn’t happen. He did what he did, no one is questioning that despite your rhetoric. Maligning and belittling mental health issues in the wider context including how it is or isn’t dealt with is frankly pathetic behaviour. I bet you even know someone who’s dealing with mental health issues.It seems people are more desperate to blame everybody else rather than the actual murderer.
Hopefully they can have him round for tea if he's released.
Im belittling a multiple murderer and little who are trying to play what he did down.To coin a phrase that gets used a lot at the moment, this didn’t happen in a vacuum. The details are still coming out and the truth seems to be that both Nottingham police and now Leicester police missed opportunities to detain him and in the case of the Nottingham Police deliberately lied to the families about why that didn’t happen. He did what he did, no one is questioning that despite your rhetoric. Maligning and belittling mental health issues in the wider context including how it is or isn’t dealt with is frankly pathetic behaviour. I bet you even know someone who’s dealing with mental health issues.
An under the skin like a contraceptive?How far does it go?
Does everybody need somebody to force meds down throats every day? At what points does he have to take responsibility?
Correct.Illogical Nick, if he was not of sound mind that extends to decisions to take medication or not
They had him in their care, then they let him slip through their fingers, probably through being over-stretched rather than lazy, but you never can tell. Horrific. The public inquiry can't come soon enough.
No suggestion being over stretched had anything to do with it. The report actually accuses the health care trust of deliberately misleading people and not including key elements regarding how dangerous he was.
On Panorama last night a clinical expert said he had never seen a report describe someone as "likely to kill if released" and it was deliberately ignored.
What did they gain from misleading? Did it mean less paperwork from them or something?
Absolutely Nick, personally I think its time we had asylums once more for these dangerous types….obviously not quite as severe in nature as the Victorian institutions but somewhere that they can receive constant care and monitoring, rather than being dumped into society whilst the authorities hope for the best.It makes you wonder how many people are on the streets like it...
They should but they won't. And if anyone does get fired it will be someone low down who isn't actually responsible. The management who have made it impossible to provide effective care will close ranks and protect one another.Heads should roll - but they will not
Nottingham attacks: Review of killer's care finds 'a series of errors'
The families of Valdo Calocane's victims say the report "demonstrates gross, systematic failures".www.bbc.co.uk
Marjorie Wallace, founder and chief executive of mental health charity SANE, described the report as "one of the most damning" she had ever read.
She told BBC Breakfast: “Sadly… the same kinds of things are happening all the time, not always leading to headline tragedies.
“The problem is that we have nowhere for people to go. We actually have half the number of adult psychiatric beds since 2000. We’ve only got about 18,000 left in the country.
“Where a person does pose a risk, the tendency is to say they aren’t sufficient risk and therefore they can go back and live in the community.
“What worries us in this case, is it seems to be Valdo Calocane’s right to refuse taking medication – the anti-psychotic medication which might have kept the voices in his head at bay and might not have got him to a state of deterioration.
“This right to choose not to engage with services, well that seems extraordinary."
She added: “This report exposes the psychiatric services are not only in crisis, they are in breakdown."
My ex worked in mental health with people likely to offend. There would regularly be people referred to them as having potential for very serious crimes but there was no capacity for them in the system and when this was flagged to management absolutely nothing was done about it.On Panorama last night a clinical expert said he had never seen a report describe someone as "likely to kill if released" and it was deliberately ignored.
We have them and conditions in them are absolutely horrific. Yet when anyone gets sent to such a facility people complain that they've been 'let off'.Absolutely Nick, personally I think its time we had asylums once more for these dangerous types….obviously not quite as severe in nature as the Victorian institutions but somewhere that they can receive constant care and monitoring, rather than being dumped into society whilst the authorities hope for the best.
Well then we need more and better facilities. We can’t have dangerous psychopaths roaming around the streets, before some trigger sends them over the edge.We have them and conditions in them are absolutely horrific. Yet when anyone gets sent to such a facility people complain that they've been 'let off'.
The problem is they are all over capacity and its considered a last resort so you have people waiting years for treatment in the community before that can be assessed as insufficient for their needs and the publics safety.
I really think we completely misunderstood the importance and pivotal roll mental health services play in society. Ultimately it was the NHS, police and prison services that have had to pick up the pieces. All of which was on the end of cuts if not in actual terms certainly in real terms. Ironically there’s some evidence to suggest that cutting 10K police officers might have actually worked if mental health services hadn’t been cut. Reinstating mental health services might have been money better spent than reinstating 10k police officers. Reinstating police officers is window dressing that’s easier to sell politically though.My ex worked in mental health with people likely to offend. There would regularly be people referred to them as having potential for very serious crimes but there was no capacity for them in the system and when this was flagged to management absolutely nothing was done about it.
Well that's not strictly true, they would regularly get a response saying they would be fired if they raised their concerns to the media or went above managements head to try and get things improved.
Of course every time someone on a waiting list or in treatment attacked someone the blame was always placed on 'failings in the service' and passed on to the front line workers who were repeatedly flagging up that the service was ridiculously under-resourced and not fit for purpose.
Mental health services were absolutely decimated in Cameron's 'not a top down reorganisation', so many services were merged into each other or shut down completely and nothing has been done to improve things since.
I really think we completely misunderstood the importance and pivotal roll mental health services play in society. Ultimately it was the NHS, police and prison services that have had to pick up the pieces. All of which was on the end of cuts if not in actual terms certainly in real terms. Ironically there’s some evidence to suggest that cutting 10K police officers might have actually worked if mental health services hadn’t been cut. Reinstating mental health services might have been money better spent than reinstating 10k police officers. Reinstating police officers is window dressing that’s easier to sell politically though.
What a surprise - I post in agreement with someone and you jump straight on my post for the sake of jumping on my post and evident by you ignoring the original post. What a pathetic little man you are.What a surprise - it’s political and the governments fault
What a surprise - I post in agreement with someone and you jump straight on my post for the sake of jumping on my post and evident by you ignoring the original post. What a pathetic little man you are.
Here it is bang on cueI really think we completely misunderstood the importance and pivotal roll mental health services play in society. Ultimately it was the NHS, police and prison services that have had to pick up the pieces. All of which was on the end of cuts if not in actual terms certainly in real terms. Ironically there’s some evidence to suggest that cutting 10K police officers might have actually worked if mental health services hadn’t been cut. Reinstating mental health services might have been money better spent than reinstating 10k police officers. Reinstating police officers is window dressing that’s easier to sell politically though.
Actually typed this with you in mind Tony, knowing that you'd be along to link it. So so predictable.BuTiFtHeToRiEsHaDfUnDeDtHeNhS
Not to mention the millions of extra people we’ve ‘gained’ over the last 20 years to add to the burden…..Strange response
I don’t blame cuts - I blame the incompetence of the people involved in the decision making process that allowed this person to walk the streets.
There are obviously individuals and systems at fault, the government is accountable for the systemWhat a surprise - it’s political and the governments fault
God your life must be empty. Have you considered finding a hobby? Train spotting sounds ideal for you. You clearly enjoy putting yourself in a situation hoping for something to happen so you can tick something off in your book. Not much difference to what you do by stalking me but at least you’ll be getting some fresh air while you’re doing it.Actually typed this with you in mind Tony, knowing that you'd be along to link it. So so predictable.
You're not even dislikable, although ironically greyer than John Major.
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