Not enough black managers in football? (1 Viewer)

[Nick]

Dion Dublin has said that he thinks it should be looked into that there aren't enough black managers in football.

The only arguments we have are there enough black and ethnic people applying for these jobs? If there are an equal amount of black and ethnic people applying for these jobs as there are white people, then there is a problem,”

“There must be a problem in the decision-making process upstairs somewhere if there are equal amounts applying.

“At the moment, we don’t know those stats. If there are equal amounts, then there is a race problem somewhere, but we don’t know that, so it is just hearsay - there might only be five per cent of black people wanting those jobs.

“I think there is a lack of black people as managers and coaches.

“There are so many black and ethnic minority players that may have been good enough to have been managers – but have they applied for these jobs?”

 

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[sw88]

Tbf, the amount of times this is brought up, along with Black people being involved in football in general, not just managers, is making it sound more racist than it actually is.

Turn the scenario round, and you may aswell just say theres too many White people in football! Is that not racist too?

The other week i read something where a black person was being lined up to become the first black chairman (or similar role) in league football. Why is that even news? Just appoint them. Dont use them as a stat!

Really is becoming a joke now imo, all the links to black and white!

 

[Nick]

The thing is do we know the stats of how many black people compared to white people apply for managers jobs?

If it was 50/50 every time there was a job and a black fella NEVER got the job then surely something would be up but if 199 white people applied and 1 black person applied surely the odds would be on a white person getting the job?

 

[We'll_live_and_die]

As Stephen says, the mere fact that this is making news is wrong. There aren't black managers because black people having got into football management.

Do you know what though? There's hardly any white managers in African football and there are hardly any Asian managers in UK football. Why are Blacks so special?

 

[Tad]

This statement seems racist in itself. All people should be treated the same regardless of anything. Giving anyone or race special treatment is giving them unfair privileges over other races - Another words, being Racist. Everyone should be treated the same and should get picked up by talent and talent alone. Nothing else.

 

[ajsccfc]

I fully endorse whatever gets Paul Ince a job that isn't managing us.

 

[scroobiustom]

The best candidate for the position should always get it - end of.

 

[stupot07]

I imagine the % of black to white is much higher than the general population, on Saturday we had Clarke, Cameron, Reckord, moussa and mcgoldrick in our starting line up.i agree that the best man should get the job but when all bar 1 or 2 managers are white when the footballing population is probably more 25-35% then you rightly have to ask questions just like big companies do about their demographics in particular numbers of women in senior management roles.

 

[Covstu]

Isn't this down to their choice on whether they take their badges and try for management? There doesn't seem to be an outcry of unemployed black manager so it seems to me that they are nit choosing that route?

 

[stupot07]

The problem is we don't know the % and numbers that have done their badges and the % and numbers that have applied for managerial jobs, and the % and numbers that have been short listed.

 

[Sutty]

They've announced a rule whereby every club has to have a black candidate on their shortlist.

I agree with the sentiment, but surely introducing effectively a tokenistic quota system is the wrong way to go about it?

 

[Marty]

Any type of 'positive' discrimination is wrong.

 

[LastGarrison]

Unless they are able to produce stats of who applied for what jobs and where, then just saying there isn't enough black managers isn't enough.

In fact it is a slur on pretty much every board at every club in the country.

Just a story out of nothing.

 

[Tad]

They've announced a rule whereby every club has to have a black candidate on their shortlist.

Don't agree with this at all. Like someone above me said, any type of discrimination is wrong. You can't give someone a leg up just because of there skin colour. It's unfair to other people.

 

[Covstu]

Totally agree tad, this is so wrong. You are there on merit and not the colour of your skin. What next, we must have a quota of French managers?

 

[Macca]

Got to be because the whole country is massively racist. What an awful place. All the people I know from abroad who extol the virtues of this country must be totally delusional

 

[stupot07]

Don't agree with this at all. Like someone above me said, any type of discrimination is wrong. You can't give someone a leg up just because of there skin colour. It's unfair to other people.

They won't get a leg up, just an opportunity to be interviewed. There is currently a Guarenteed Interview Scheme for people with special educational needs and disabilities if they meet the minimum requirements for a job, which a lot of organisations are signed up to - it doesn't they guarenteed or even given the job, but get the opportunity to sell themself at interview. It's about trying to change a mindset which was obviously needed in the NFL and has been successful.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They've announced a rule whereby every club has to have a black candidate on their shortlist.

I agree with the sentiment, but surely introducing effectively a tokenistic quota system is the wrong way to go about it?

What about all the other non-black minorities? Or, shock horror, if no black candidates want the job?

 

[Tad]

They won't get a leg up, just an opportunity to be interviewed. There is currently a Guarenteed Interview Scheme for people with special educational needs and disabilities if they meet the minimum requirements for a job, which a lot of organisations are signed up to - it doesn't they guarenteed or even given the job, but get the opportunity to sell themself at interview. It's about trying to change a mindset which was obviously needed in the NFL and has been successful.

I don't follow the NFL so can you give any examples of this working? Plus going by what you've said your talking about disabilities more then skin colour..

 

[Grendel]

Given the amount of black players in the game it would be difficult to imagine such a much smaller percentage wish to get into management.

I would suspect that there is some racist motivations somewhere.

 

[Changeyourface]

They won't get a leg up, just an opportunity to be interviewed. There is currently a Guarenteed Interview Scheme for people with special educational needs and disabilities if they meet the minimum requirements for a job, which a lot of organisations are signed up to - it doesn't they guarenteed or even given the job, but get the opportunity to sell themself at interview. It's about trying to change a mindset which was obviously needed in the NFL and has been successful.

What if I, as a White British male applied for the same job? Would I be guaranteed an interview? No? Seems a bit racist.

 

[Grendel]

What if I, as a White British male applied for the same job? Would I be guaranteed an interview? No? Seems a bit racist.

No it doesn't unless it is only black people being interviewed - the statistical probability suggests racism to some degree is at large here.

 

[Disorganised1]

Why are there so few black quarterbacks in American football. The majority of the players are black, but very few quaterbacks ?

Is this even a valid question ? In American football money rules, so black players are not being held back from the role, yet so few take the role.

 

[Macca]

Christ I ve just realised my boss isn't black, always thought there was institutional racism at play at work. Come to think if it, as far as I m aware, he s male, able bodied and married to a woman..........i never realised I worked for a load of bigots

 

[Covstu]

That totally wrong macca, you should out in a grievance against your manager!!

 

[Grendel]

One franchised outlet I used to manager required a sales manager. One day I casually asked how the process is going. He told me he had found the perfect candidate but had to say no due to the colour of his skin.

Reasons he cited were:

Not sure if customers would accept him
There are very few in the industry
Could he command his workers

The guy clearly saw the look of horror on my face so even made the usual platitudes of he's not racist and he had lot of black friends etc.

I was appalled.

Football is a misogynist, homophobic industry. To suggest an element of racist behaviour is also not prevelant is at best naive. Club chairmen are not generally the most liberal of society. They are old school.

They will be concerned about image and all the other issues stated above. Ask yourself in your industry of someone called someone else a black c... what would happen to them.

I am sure the chairmen have lots of black friends. I am sure they do. Until some of them move into the 21st century it will still be much harder for some of them to make it as managers.

 

[Macca]

surely if it meant success they would employ whoever was the best man for the job? Doesn't stop them having lots of black players on the books?

 

[ajsccfc]

The amount of clubs starved of any kind of success, I have trouble believing that skin colour would be a barrier if someone has the credentials in too many cases nowadays.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

One franchised outlet I used to manager required a sales manager. One day I casually asked how the process is going. He told me he had found the perfect candidate but had to say no due to the colour of his skin.

Reasons he cited were:

Not sure if customers would accept him
There are very few in the industry
Could he command his workers

The guy clearly saw the look of horror on my face so even made the usual platitudes of he's not racist and he had lot of black friends etc.

I was appalled.

Football is a misogynist, homophobic industry. To suggest an element of racist behaviour is also not prevelant is at best naive. Club chairmen are not generally the most liberal of society. They are old school.

They will be concerned about image and all the other issues stated above. Ask yourself in your industry of someone called someone else a black c... what would happen to them.

I am sure the chairmen have lots of black friends. I am sure they do. Until some of them move into the 21st century it will still be much harder for some of them to make it as managers.

What I find intriguing here is that had Terry simply called him a c**t, nobody would be batting an eyelid. Is foul language acceptable so long as it isn't discriminatory?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No it doesn't unless it is only black people being interviewed - the statistical probability suggests racism to some degree is at large here.

Then why are there not more complaints raised by the ethnic candidates who don't get the job?

 

[rob9872]

I've applied the argument on here before that seems to be missed in most of the statistical arguments that keep occurring.

In society it takes time. It's the same with women in management positions in companies and a generation of coming through to get into those roles.

Yes there are CURRENTLY 25% of black footballers, but a generation ago (where most of the managers are from as almost all are ex-players) there was no where near 25%. I'm sure as more move through the game and into retirement the numbers will increase.

The one statistic that isn't questioned is the reverse of his argument. Why are there 25% of black footballers if only 5% of the population is black? Why are there none or very few asian players despite their number in this country? Are white guys being denied the opportunity to play? Of course that's a ridiculous and ludicrous argument, but helps to illustrate that players are rightly chosen on ability rather than colour or creed and I'm sure in a generation, the number of black managers will slowly increase as it evolves.

Is it co-incidence that all of the best sprinters are and always will be black? Is it equally a co-incidence that all of the best swimmers are white?

What we should also do is stop trying to make everyone the same and treat them the same. We should be able to accept that black guys, white guys, asian guys are all different. None better, none worse just different. We should celebrate those differences rather than pretend they don't exist and accept that genetically we can not and should not be lumped together and treated the same.

 

[Macca]

Most sensible post on the subject yet Robert old chap

 

[LastGarrison]

One franchised outlet I used to manager required a sales manager. One day I casually asked how the process is going. He told me he had found the perfect candidate but had to say no due to the colour of his skin.

Reasons he cited were:

Not sure if customers would accept him
There are very few in the industry
Could he command his workers

The guy clearly saw the look of horror on my face so even made the usual platitudes of he's not racist and he had lot of black friends etc.

I was appalled.

Football is a misogynist, homophobic industry. To suggest an element of racist behaviour is also not prevelant is at best naive. Club chairmen are not generally the most liberal of society. They are old school.

They will be concerned about image and all the other issues stated above. Ask yourself in your industry of someone called someone else a black c... what would happen to them.

I am sure the chairmen have lots of black friends. I am sure they do. Until some of them move into the 21st century it will still be much harder for some of them to make it as managers.

How many club chairman do you know? And what are you basing this on? Or is it just a sweeping generalisation based on what you read in the papers?

Out of interest like.

Just makes me laugh people who make points about discrimination when being discriminating themselves.

 

[ajsccfc]

What I find intriguing here is that had Terry simply called him a c**t, nobody would be batting an eyelid. Is foul language acceptable so long as it isn't discriminatory?

More so if nothing else, yeah. Anyone can be a c**t, it's equal opportunity abuse.

 

[mark82]

More so if nothing else, yeah. Anyone can be a c**t, it's equal opportunity abuse.

What about calling someone a big nosed c**t or fat c**t. Or offending some other physical feature. Would this be treated in the same way as racism?