Nopm and transfers (9 Viewers)

[stupot07]

To make the losses that they have to cover, bigger!!

And then they will sell to make the losses in line with what they have budgeted for.

 

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[Nick]

To make the losses that they have to cover, bigger!!

What I don't get is the "We are going to starve SISU dry so they have no money" and quite aggressive about it, but then rumours of players going causes outrage with "some" of the same people highly offended SISU are selling players. I could totally understand if somebody who is passionate about NOPM accepts that players may need to be sold as it "could" show desperation to try and claw some money to cover costs (surely good if the aim is to bleed them dry. isn't it?)

Yes Fisher has "shown" the FL the money to cover losses, how do we know this didn't include players going out though?

I hope nobody goes and if possible somebody comes in though.

 

[Warwickhunt]

if they cash in on clarke & wilson it will damage the NOPM campaign as they would have sufficient funds to ride the season out

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

And then they will sell to make the losses in line with what they have budgeted for.

But that would mean that Fisher's statement to the Football League about covering all losses was misleading?

Or are you caveatting it by saying they will cover losses until such time as losses become too large, after which point they'll asset strip?

 

[skybluebeduff]

What I don't get is the "We are going to starve SISU dry so they have no money" and quite aggressive about it, but then rumours of players going causes outrage with "some" of the same people highly offended SISU are selling players. I could totally understand if somebody who is passionate about NOPM accepts that players may need to be sold as it "could" show desperation to try and claw some money to cover costs (surely good if the aim is to bleed them dry. isn't it?)

Yes Fisher has "shown" the FL the money to cover losses, how do we know this didn't include players going out though?

I hope nobody goes and if possible somebody comes in though.

I doubt TF shown the FL players he planned on getting rid of to cover the losses, what if they got injured before they went? failed a medical and sent back to coventry? McSheff could just sit on money all season then piss off somewhere when his contracts up, his choice alone that TF can do nothing about.

 

[Nick]

We all know what the football league are like though, he probably flashed a Tesco Clubcard with loads of points on and they accepted it....

 

[Nick]

I doubt TF shown the FL players he planned on getting rid of to cover the losses, what if they got injured before they went? failed a medical and sent back to coventry? McSheff could just sit on money all season then piss off somewhere when his contracts up, his choice alone that TF can do nothing about.

No I just meant he could have put it in the "expected" about players going out and coming in

 

[skybluebeduff]

Either way if any player in the world has a price above their head which is met, they'll be gone. It's the nature of football, players come and go, usually the latter for us.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

And then they will sell to make the losses in line with what they have budgeted for.

You'll recall that at the forums, TF said that they wouldn't sell because "you don't sell at the bottom of the business cycle".

Since then, they've lost 80% to 90% of last year's customer base.

If, as you suggest, they then sell the better players (as they're the ones that people will want to buy) to fund the increased losses, it must occur to them that that will make results harder to achieve.

Poorer results will make it even less likely that the disenfranchised supporters will be tempted back and so the losses will be maintained, possibly increased.

Putting myself in TF's shoes, I'm not sure that I could see the bottom of the cycle in sight, let alone see a move towards the top.

 

[skybluebeduff]

This is where I have to talk about Financial Fair Play and the Salary Cap. I understand it may not be on the top of the list of priorities for a lot of supporters but it is real and it is happening. In a nutshell, you are now only permitted to have a total first team playing squad cost (in terms of salaries and fees) which corresponds to a certain percentage of your revenue. So it is vital that we need to increase our revenue to put quality on the pitch, it’s as simple as that. It hasn’t hit us as hard this year as some of our current players fall outside the actual squad costs due to the date they signed their contracts with us. However, next season will be a completely different story as every penny we spend on players will be counted by the Football League and if we exceed our Salary Cap under the rules of Financial Fair Play, we will be immediately be placed under transfer embargo, it’s as simple as that.

So TF has already said it's going to hit us hard this season, so if players do need to go, then asap it must be or we're under yet another embargo?

 

[stupot07]

But that would mean that Fisher's statement to the Football League about covering all losses was misleading?

Or are you caveatting it by saying they will cover losses until such time as losses become too large, after which point they'll asset strip?

Not really, I would imagine they would have budgeted for a number of scenarios and that these would have been shared with the FL. at the end of the day, all the FL want to know is can survive the next 3 seasons.

I wouldn't call selling players to fund losses 'asset stripping'.

 

[stupot07]

You'll recall that at the forums, TF said that they wouldn't sell because "you don't sell at the bottom of the business cycle".

Since then, they've lost 80% to 90% of last year's customer base.

If, as you suggest, they then sell the better players (as they're the ones that people will want to buy) to fund the increased losses, it must occur to them that that will make results harder to achieve.

Poorer results will make it even less likely that the disenfranchised supporters will be tempted back and so the losses will be maintained, possibly increased.

Putting myself in TF's shoes, I'm not sure that I could see the bottom of the cycle in sight, let alone see a move towards the top.

So again, why bother with NOPM?

Btw, I have spent NOPM this season after being a season ticket holder (x4) for the last 8 seasons. I won't be moaning if we have to sell players.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

What I don't get is the "We are going to starve SISU dry so they have no money" and quite aggressive about it, but then rumours of players going causes outrage with "some" of the same people highly offended SISU are selling players. I could totally understand if somebody who is passionate about NOPM accepts that players may need to be sold as it "could" show desperation to try and claw some money to cover costs (surely good if the aim is to bleed them dry. isn't it?)

Yes Fisher has "shown" the FL the money to cover losses, how do we know this didn't include players going out though?

I hope nobody goes and if possible somebody comes in though.

To be honest Nick, I think that if we get good offers, then players are going to leave - irrespective of being in Northampton and irrespective of NOPM.

It's one thing that I haven't criticised SISU for because it's always been the way of things and probably always will - on a similar thread, I noted that I'd still not recovered from the sale of Dennis Mortimer (under the Chairmanship of a certain Mr J. Hill).

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I'd prefer the latter

 

[skybluefred]

if they cash in on clarke & wilson it will damage the NOPM campaign as they would have sufficient funds to ride the season out

And then next season when we kick off in league TWO, probably under a transfer embargo because sisu haven't posted the accounts,fielding even more 16 to 17 year olds because we can't bring any players in. Even the very few who go to the cobblers now will dwindle to a mere trickle and BINGO we will be in the conference and just about worthless.

NOPM KCIC.

 

[Nick]

And then next season when we kick off in league TWO, probably under a transfer embargo because sisu haven't posted the accounts,fielding even more 16 to 17 year olds because we can't bring any players in. Even the very few who go to the cobblers now will dwindle to a mere trickle and BINGO we will be in the conference and just about worthless.

NOPM KCIC.

And then people in NOPM will be happy? Or will they be pissed off that SISU sold the players to cover costs.... (if they do and its the case)

 

[skybluebeduff]

And then people in NOPM will be happy? Or will they be pissed off that SISU sold the players to cover costs.... (if they do and its the case)

The NOPM people are just pissed off with SISU full stop. They took the club away Nick, players come and go not clubs.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ Nick.... Your original post in question...Did SISU buy players when we were having gates of 20k+?.......Yes they did, BUT! sold them within 9 months for massive profits(Dann and Fox) This led to lack of investment of decent players, falling gates etc. SISU have single handedly destroyed this club, and blaming NOPM is "Well out of order"

 

[RoboCCFC90]

@ Nick.... Your original post in question...Did SISU buy players when we were having gates of 20k+?.......Yes they did, BUT! sold them within 9 months for massive profits(Dann and Fox) This led to lack of investment of decent players, falling gates etc. SISU have single handedly destroyed this club, and blaming NOPM is "Well out of order"

There was no way we were ever going to keep hold of Dann and Fox at the combination of £5Mil at that time it was too good a deal.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ Nick.... Your original post in question...Did SISU buy players when we were having gates of 20k+?.......Yes they did, BUT! sold them within 9 months for massive profits(Dann and Fox) This led to lack of investment of decent players, falling gates etc. SISU have single handedly destroyed this club, and blaming NOPM is "Well out of order"

 

[stupot07]

@ Nick.... Your original post in question...Did SISU buy players when we were having gates of 20k+?.......Yes they did, BUT! sold them within 9 months for massive profits(Dann and Fox) This led to lack of investment of decent players, falling gates etc. SISU have single handedly destroyed this club, and blaming NOPM is "Well out of order"

The first season sisu were here, when dann, fox, Gunnar, Westwood were still here we only averaged 17.2k in the league and that was with investment.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

The first season sisu were here, when dann, fox, Gunnar, Westwood were still here we only averaged 17.2k in the league and that was with investment.

I know that you're making an entirely different point, but given our current plight it just looks odd to be talking about our "home" gates as "only averaging 17.2k".

 

[italiahorse]

Don't forget a lot of people can't get to Northampton for day, time needed, cost and travel reasons.

These people can say they are taking part in NOPM but would have done so by default anyway.
Even if we had a full house at Sixfields every week we are down on numbers on last year anyhow plus they are charging less.
Sponsors are not interested and incomes they did have like car park and corporate they are not available at Sixfillds.

It's SISU's fault the income is cut.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ RoboCCFC90......I think imo that your valuation of Dann and Fox is way too low...The point I'm making is they have Sold...Sold...Sold...and never replaced, yet expected supporters to keep paying "Championship prices" to watch a "Decidedly second rate team" Dann and Fox were the start of the "Asset Stripping"

 

[ccfcway]

And then people in NOPM will be happy? Or will they be pissed off that SISU sold the players to cover costs.... (if they do and its the case)

SISU will ALWAYS be remembered as the bunch that took COVENTRY City out of COVENTRY. NOPM is the right thing to do. As consumers and fans the only thing in our power is voting with our feet, and as attendances will show, we have done just that.

 

[shmmeee]

What I don't get is the "We are going to starve SISU dry so they have no money" and quite aggressive about it, but then rumours of players going causes outrage with "some" of the same people highly offended SISU are selling players.

I see this line of reasoning a lot and I'd remind you that (as much as you Robbo and Stu would wish otherwise) there is not some one hivemind called "NOPM". It's a broad umbrella that covers a multitude of views.

Any attempt to accredit one particular thought to "NOPM" is naive at best and malicious at worst.

Perhaps if you spot a particular poster with these views then take them to task personally, rather than starting a thread trying to tar a majority with the brush of an individual.

To answer your question: yes I will be pissed off. ALL of this. The rent row. The admin. The liquidation. The points deductions. The move to Sixfields. ALL. OF. IT. Is Sisu's doing. No one had a gun to their head, they thought it was the best business strategy.

As such all consequences are theirs intended or not.

In fact one of the reasons I'm so against the move is because its financial suicide (even if it was sold out) and would result in further weakening of the playin squad, if not through player sales then decreased SCMP calculations.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@stupot07... To get a average of 17.2k...does that not need attendances above 20k ?....and there were quite a few well above 20k when SISU took charge! If you're going to try and "Poo Poo" my post, at least do it without trying to make your figures look better by "Manipulating the figures down" Incidently, throw in Turner with Gunnar, Westwood, Dann and Fox, all who are now playing Premiership Football with the exception of Dann but Everton and Fulham are "in" for him atm.

 

[stupot07]

@stupot07... To get a average of 17.2k...does that not need attendances above 20k ?....and there were quite a few well above 20k when SISU took charge! If you're going to try and "Poo Poo" my post, at least do it without trying to make your figures look better by "Manipulating the figures down" Incidently, throw in Turner with Gunnar, Westwood, Dann and Fox, all who are now playing Premiership Football with the exception of Dann but Everton and Fulham are "in" for him atm.

Not trying to poo poo your post, and I agree with Tommy it seems a bit silly saying 'only 17.2k' but you could argue you're manipulating the figures up. That said our average with investment was already 4k down on our first season.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Not really, I would imagine they would have budgeted for a number of scenarios and that these would have been shared with the FL. at the end of the day, all the FL want to know is can survive the next 3 seasons.

I wouldn't call selling players to fund losses 'asset stripping'.

Sorry to pull you up here; but it appears you're going out of your way to justify an unjust position.

Fisher was aware of the strength of feeling with regards the move from various sources; including the forums and a number of well documented online polls. Notwithstanding that, he proceeded with the move; and in so doing, assured the FL that SISU had recapitalised the business, with a view to covering any and all losses associated with the move of their making.

To now, after two home games, sell players to cover losses would be a betrayal of the assurances given to the FL. There is no debate, or excuse making beyond that point.

Not that I am suggesting they have, or will do so; but reaffirming the indefensible nature of any decision to do so given recent promises made

 

[rondog1973]

So again, why bother with NOPM?

Btw, I have spent NOPM this season after being a season ticket holder (x4) for the last 8 seasons. I won't be moaning if we have to sell players.

I, and many others with a bit of backbone, support the NOPM campaign on the pure point of principle of our club no longer playing 'home' games within the boundaries of the city of Coventry.

 

[stupot07]

Sorry to pull you up here; but it appears you're going out of your way to justify an unjust position.

Fisher was aware of the strength of feeling with regards the move from various sources; including the forums and a number of well documented online polls. Notwithstanding that, he proceeded with the move; and in so doing, assured the FL that SISU had recapitalised the business, with a view to covering any and all losses associated with the move of their making.

To now, after two home games, sell players to cover losses would be a betrayal of the assurances given to the FL. There is no debate, or excuse making beyond that point.

Not that I am suggesting they have, or will do so; but reaffirming the indefensible nature of any decision to do so given recent promises made

No it wouldn't, like Nick said part of the financial plan may have included possible income from player sales.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

SISU wouldn't be covering losses then, would they? The squad would be.

I am sorry, I really cannot understand why you are trying to defend any such possibility

 

[Grendel]

SISU wouldn't be covering losses then, would they? The squad would be.

I am sorry, I really cannot understand why you are trying to defend any such possibility

The transfer fees would contribute in terms of FPP regulations. It would be nothing to do with covering losses.

 

[Grendel]

I, and many others with a bit of backbone, support the NOPM campaign on the pure point of principle of our club no longer playing 'home' games within the boundaries of the city of Coventry.

With a bit of a backbone. Ha ha.

 

[rondog1973]

Bit of backbone, Dildo. Read properly next time.