New Labour Leader (2 Viewers)

SkyblueBazza · Dec 19, 2019

Sorry to distract everyone by returning to the topic - but Emily Thornberry being the only one to have officially come forward...credible???

This morning on 5live interview, asked why people should vote for her as new leader of the party...straightforward answer..."Well there are many reasons"...so what was her attention-grabber? "For one I'm a woman & it's about time we had one". So she will be a major leap forward for the shallow.

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shmmeee · Dec 19, 2019

fatso said:
Oh dear, David Cameron spelt our exactly what leave would mean prior to the referendum, he said there would be only one referendum, and a no vote would result in the uk being out of the customs union, out of the single market, out of the European courts, and out of the Schengen treaty. Etc etc
All of this is a matter of historic record, and his speeches are on utube for anyone to listen to.
How come your not aware of it? Please tell me you didn’t vote without having a fucking clue!

Not sure if you’ve been asleep but Cameron hasn’t been in charge for some time. What did the PM say?

shmmeee · Dec 19, 2019

SkyblueBazza said:
Sorry to distract everyone by returning to the topic - but Emily Thornberry being the only one to have officially come forward...credible???

This morning on 5live interview, asked why people should vote for her as new leader of the party...straightforward answer..."Well there are many reasons"...so what was her attention-grabber? "For one I'm a woman & it's about time we had one". So she will be a major leap forward for the shallow.

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Thornberry is hatred across the party, she doesn’t stand a chance. RLB and Starmer have also put themselves forward sort of unofficially. Jess Phillips is buying Facebook ads encouraging moderates to join so she’s probably a shoe in as well.

Labour First (Blairite faction) are running a questionnaire at the moment that asks who people like so I’m guessing they’re waiting to see who their members will go for before picking the candidate. I said Starmer then Nandy but I’d take Phillips (I’m a member of Labour First, Momentum, Open Labour and Progress mailing lists just so I know what everyone is thinking)

richnrg · Dec 19, 2019

shmmeee said:
(I’m a member of Labour First, Momentum, Open Labour and Progress mailing lists just so I know what everyone is thinking)

serious question - are people actually thinking 'good god - there's not one person that actually inspires me, let alone a short list of 3 or 4 candidates"

shmmeee · Dec 19, 2019

richnrg said:
serious question - are people actually thinking 'good god - there's not one person that actually inspires me, let alone a short list of 3 or 4 candidates"

Too early to tell. There’s no “wow” moment, but the campaign hasn’t started yet. Remember David Davies was the favourite when Cameron won the leadership of the Tories.

Early riders seem to be Starmer and Nandy. Will depend how many Corbynites don’t do what they’re told and vote Rebecca Wrong-Daily.

But yeah, no stand out candidate right now.

I think to be fair, that’s not what’s needed. We aren’t likely to win in 2024 unless Brexit is an absolute shitshow (in which case literally anyone who isn’t Corbyn should do). This person needs to detoxify and start putting the party machinery back together. The GE campaign organisation under Corbyn was a joke. Lots of footsoldiers, fucking awful generals.

SkyBlueDom26 · Dec 19, 2019

shmmeee said:
Too early to tell. There’s no “wow” moment, but the campaign hasn’t started yet. Remember David Davies was the favourite when Cameron won the leadership of the Tories.

Early riders seem to be Starmer and Nandy. Will depend how many Corbynites don’t do what they’re told and vote Rebecca Wrong-Daily.

But yeah, no stand out candidate right now.

I think to be fair, that’s not what’s needed. We aren’t likely to win in 2024 unless Brexit is an absolute shitshow (in which case literally anyone who isn’t Corbyn should do). This person needs to detoxify and start putting the party machinery back together. The GE campaign organisation under Corbyn was a joke. Lots of footsoldiers, fucking awful generals.

Will you admit that the hard left approach Corbyn took didn't work? Or are you on the side of blaming everything else but him?

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 19, 2019

shmmeee said:
Too early to tell. There’s no “wow” moment, but the campaign hasn’t started yet. Remember David Davies was the favourite when Cameron won the leadership of the Tories.

Early riders seem to be Starmer and Nandy. Will depend how many Corbynites don’t do what they’re told and vote Rebecca Wrong-Daily.

But yeah, no stand out candidate right now.

I think to be fair, that’s not what’s needed. We aren’t likely to win in 2024 unless Brexit is an absolute shitshow (in which case literally anyone who isn’t Corbyn should do). This person needs to detoxify and start putting the party machinery back together. The GE campaign organisation under Corbyn was a joke. Lots of footsoldiers, fucking awful generals.

I’d also get someone to work on a three word sound bite, and someone else organising some pint holding lessons

Astute · Dec 19, 2019

shmmeee said:
Thornberry is hatred across the party, she doesn’t stand a chance. RLB and Starmer have also put themselves forward sort of unofficially. Jess Phillips is buying Facebook ads encouraging moderates to join so she’s probably a shoe in as well.

Labour First (Blairite faction) are running a questionnaire at the moment that asks who people like so I’m guessing they’re waiting to see who their members will go for before picking the candidate. I said Starmer then Nandy but I’d take Phillips (I’m a member of Labour First, Momentum, Open Labour and Progress mailing lists just so I know what everyone is thinking)

Starmer has been my choice for ages. Not because I think he would make a great leader but because he is not as bad as the rest. And there is a chance he would be good for Labour.

shmmeee · Dec 19, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Will you admit that the hard left approach Corbyn took didn't work? Or are you on the side of blaming everything else but him?

Define “hard left”.

I don’t think the British public are a bunch of weirdos fed on YouTube videos about socialism edited between hate wanks by white nationalists like you seem to be.

Economically there were two main issues I think: 1) the manifesto was ridiculously big and seemed incredible 2) Corbyn wasn’t trusted to deliver anything, let alone a manifesto like that.

Socially is the real problem I think. Labour have moved further and further from their socially conservative working class base since the 90s, Corbyn put that into overdrive. I’ve heard several people since say he didn’t say anything to them as someone who just wants to “get on”. Students and Greens aren’t a winning coalition of voters.

I think the Brexit position was shit, we should’ve stuck to soft Brexit IMO instead of caving to the People’s Vote lot. I don’t think there’s a route to government that doesn’t go through a lot of Leave seats, but the membership wouldn’t lost their shit.

Corbyn should’ve gone in 2016, that’s why I voted against him then. My real worry is too many of his supporters seem stuck in this “everyone’s a bigot and the media hate us, and anyone more socially conservative than Corbyn is a Nazi”. Doing my best to beat some sense into them but I suspect they’ll need another kicking before they get it into their heads that we are trying to win an election not a wokeness contest.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 19, 2019

shmmeee said:
Define “hard left”.

I don’t think the British public are a bunch of weirdos fed on YouTube videos about socialism edited between hate wanks by white nationalists like you seem to be.

Economically there were two main issues I think: 1) the manifesto was ridiculously big and seemed incredible 2) Corbyn wasn’t trusted to deliver anything, let alone a manifesto like that.

Socially is the real problem I think. Labour have moved further and further from their socially conservative working class base since the 90s, Corbyn put that into overdrive. I’ve heard several people since say he didn’t say anything to them as someone who just wants to “get on”. Students and Greens aren’t a winning coalition of voters.

I think the Brexit position was shit, we should’ve stuck to soft Brexit IMO instead of caving to the People’s Vote lot. I don’t think there’s a route to government that doesn’t go through a lot of Leave seats, but the membership wouldn’t lost their shit.

Corbyn should’ve gone in 2016, that’s why I voted against him then. My real worry is too many of his supporters seem stuck in this “everyone’s a bigot and the media hate us, and anyone more socially conservative than Corbyn is a Nazi”. Doing my best to beat some sense into them but I suspect they’ll need another kicking before they get it into their heads that we are trying to win an election not a wokeness contest.

Stand by to be ignored and called a Corbyn fan boy

SkyBlueDom26 · Dec 19, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Stand by to be ignored and called a Corbyn fan boy

He actually makes some good points on Corbyn.... same unfortunately can't be said with you

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 19, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
He actually makes some good points.... same unfortunately can't be said with you as you haven't got a clue

These are points I have made before also. Also nice try deleting that Johnson pic

SkyBlueDom26 · Dec 19, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
These are points I have made before also. Also nice try deleting that Johnson pic

Why does Corbyn look so miserable?

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 19, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Why does Corbyn look so miserable?

Why hasn’t Boris taken out a restraining order against you?

chiefdave · Dec 19, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Why does Corbyn look so miserable?

Look who he's stood next to.

SkyBlueDom26 · Dec 19, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Why hasn’t Boris taken out a restraining order against you?

Why can't you take a joke?

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 19, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Why can't you take a joke?

I thought I was joking, Dim?

SkyBlueDom26 · Dec 19, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I thought I was joking, Dim?

Dimmmmmmmmm why you so Dim

fatso · Dec 19, 2019

shmmeee said:
Not sure if you’ve been asleep but Cameron hasn’t been in charge for some time. What did the PM say?

Ffs shmmeee, you've really slumped to an all time low now, did you not know that Cameron was the PM when we had the referendum?
Did you really not understand that it was Cameron who spelled out exactly what a leave vote would mean?
Jesus fella, if I'm going to have to continually educate you I'm going to have to start charging!

As for what Cameron said, his speeches are on utube if you wish to catch up.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 19, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Dimmmmmmmmm why you so Dim

5 words new personal best!

shmmeee · Dec 19, 2019

fatso said:
Ffs shmmeee, you've really slumped to an all time low now, did you not know that Cameron was the PM when we had the referendum?
Did you really not understand that it was Cameron who spelled out exactly what a leave vote would mean?
Jesus fella, if I'm going to have to continually educate you I'm going to have to start charging!

As for what Cameron said, his speeches are on utube if you wish to catch up.

He was campaigning for Remain!!! He’s putting across the worst possible scenario.

Should we expect Johnson to sell the NHS to Trump cos that’s what Corbyn said or should we expect him to protect like he said?

fatso · Dec 19, 2019

shmmeee said:
He was campaigning for Remain!!! He’s putting across the worst possible scenario.

Should we expect Johnson to sell the NHS to Trump cos that’s what Corbyn said or should we expect him to protect like he said?

Wtf are you on about now?
The Cameron references were explaining that the referendum vote was essentially for a no deal, as Cameron (pm at the time) was trying to frighten voters in to voting to remain.
This bollocks with Boris selling the NHS is more Bollocks from Corbyn trying to frighten voters I to voting for labour.
It's amazing how many people continuously fall for fear tactics.
Clearly, you can fool some people ALL the time.

SkyBlueDom26 · Dec 19, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
5 words new personal best!

Hahahahahahahahaha fuck me, I can't stop laughing at how funny you are

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 19, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Hahahahahahahahaha fuck me, I can't stop laughing at how funny you are

That didn't work on Boris and sadly it won't work on me

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 19, 2019

fatso said:
Wtf are you on about now?
The Cameron references were explaining that the referendum vote was essentially for a no deal, as Cameron (pm at the time) was trying to frighten voters in to voting to remain.
This bollocks with Boris selling the NHS is more Bollocks from Corbyn trying to frighten voters I to voting for labour.
It's amazing how many people continuously fall for fear tactics.
Clearly, you can fool some people ALL the time.

Yes the Tories are the world experts

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 19, 2019

fatso said:
Wtf are you on about now?
The Cameron references were explaining that the referendum vote was essentially for a no deal, as Cameron (pm at the time) was trying to frighten voters in to voting to remain.
This bollocks with Boris selling the NHS is more Bollocks from Corbyn trying to frighten voters I to voting for labour.
It's amazing how many people continuously fall for fear tactics.
Clearly, you can fool some people ALL the time.

You're not calling some voters stupid now, are you?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 19, 2019

fatso said:
Anti austerity will always poll well among those who forget, or never new why austerity was brought about in the first place.
Anti austerity voters rarely know or understand that we as a nation are 1.8 trillion pounds in debt, or that it's the 8 million people that Blair's government let in that's the real cause for the current issues in the NHS, and not underfunding by the Tories. (Infact if you even mention immigration now, you get shouted down for being racist, despite it being the biggest single issue in the referendum)
In fact I'd say, many voters are completely politically unaware, they vote labour because they always have, or if they see queues at A&E it's easier to blame lack of funding than to look further into the issue for the truth.

It's all very well saying why was austerity brought in, but you have to ask why austerity was brought in at the same time as massively cutting tax rates resulting in a loss to the exchequer that has had to be filled by more borrowing on top of the cuts.

Alternatives/compromises were available but when push came to shove it was chosen to put a huge amount of the burden on the poorest and most vulnerable in society. With austerity the rich have got richer and the wealth divide has grown.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 19, 2019

fatso said:
If you sympathise or align yourself with terrorists, that shit will stay relevant for ever, even after your death, but to be fair, at the time Corbyn never had ambitions to be the party leader, let alone a future P.M.

So why didn't he get so massively rejected in 2017? He must've done a lot of terrorist sympathising in the last two years?

Sky Blue Pete · Dec 19, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So why didn't he get so massively rejected in 2017? He must've done a lot of terrorist sympathising in the last two years?

Because Boris is so trustworthy and believable

SkyBlueDom26 · Dec 19, 2019

Sky Blue Pete said:
Because Boris is so trustworthy and believable

He's more trustworthy than Corbyn thats for sure

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Dec 19, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Corbyn getting in would have destroyed our country, even people from the labour party said how he wasn't to be trusted with our security! Wake up Shmmeee and get ya deluded head out the clouds, you lost on both votes now accept it

What like Gove who gave out the phone number for Downing St to a third rate radio interviewer just to deflect from a question? Or a PM who got a British national more time in prison for not paying attention and basically agreeing with what she's been accused of (and who's dad was a trainee spy but was forced to quit because he was so incompetent he forgot his story and used personal credit cards on an operaton). But in a posh voice it just sounds like larks and a funny anecdote. And frankly I consider Stanley more competent than Alexander, which is saying something!.

Yep, I feel really nice and secure that our intelligence and security is safe.

Sky Blue Pete · Dec 19, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
He's more trustworthy than Corbyn thats for sure

Based on what?

Astute · Dec 19, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
You're not calling some voters stupid now, are you?

There are stupid people about. So some would have voted. And they would have voted for all parties.

Remind me who it is that are more highly educated. Remind me which party wanted to get rid of private education.

The definition of insanity/stupidity is doing the same thing expecting a different result. It isn't me that wants my party to keep trying the same tactics expecting a different result. I want us to try something different.

SkyBlueDom26 · Dec 19, 2019

Sky Blue Pete said:
Based on what?

Do you really think Corbyn would have been able to deliver on all of his manifesto? Like truthfully

Astute · Dec 19, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So why didn't he get so massively rejected in 2017? He must've done a lot of terrorist sympathising in the last two years?

He lost in 2017 but it was treated like a win. So we tried the same again. And got another defeat. I said at the time in 2017 we would lose. And had been saying since 2017 we would lose by a bigger margin if we had no change. This time we got the least amount of seats in 85 years.

But yeah let's just carry on.

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