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New Labour Leader (3 Viewers)

  • Thread starter shmmeee
  • Start date Dec 16, 2019
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #631
Grendel said:
Not really. Brexit was a key part of the election and as usual labour blundered their strategy

Labour other than under Blair have seemed incapable of running an election strategy. Tories with the exception of 2017 are pretty good at it
Click to expand...
The Tories have been much better at utilsiing paid social advertising and using the data from it to inform their offline campaigns as well, Labour are majorly behind in that regard.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #632
Ian1779 said:
To be fair - irrespective of their agendas and splits, come election time they unite behind a single voice. Labour couldn’t follow suit.
Click to expand...

Sorry, are we talking about the Tory party who former PMs and chancellors were telling anyone who’s listen not to vote for them?

Of course division is never good in a party, but in the list of things we did badly it’s near the bottom well below listening to voter concerns, targeting seats effectively and having a simple clear message.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #633
Sick Boy said:
The Tories have been much better at utilsiing paid social advertising and using the data from it to inform their offline campaigns as well, Labour are majorly behind in that regard.
Click to expand...

This is true.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #634
shmmeee said:
Sorry, are we talking about the Tory party who former PMs and chancellors were telling anyone who’s listen not to vote for them?
.
Click to expand...
Problem with that is that former Labour PMs, ministers were saying not to vote for Corbyn
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #635
tisza said:
Problem with that is that former Labour PMs, ministers were saying not to vote for Corbyn
Click to expand...

Exactly. Not good for either, but also happening to both so not a reason for the massive defeat.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #636
Sick Boy said:
The Tories have been much better at utilsiing paid social advertising and using the data from it to inform their offline campaigns as well, Labour are majorly behind in that regard.
Click to expand...
Wasn't that the concept behind Momentum? Supposed to be very effective on the organisational and social media front - were "praised for it" after 2017 election.
I do wonder about this emphasis on social media advertising. The most active social media age groups are those that have been strong labour voters anyway - as the vote gets older, the more conservative it becomes (and less likely to be using social media)
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #637
tisza said:
Wasn't that the concept behind Momentum? Supposed to be very effective on the organisational and social media front - were "praised for it" after 2017 election.
I do wonder about this emphasis on social media advertising. The most active social media age groups are those that have been strong labour voters anyway - as the vote gets older, the more conservative it becomes (and less likely to be using social media)
Click to expand...
The Conservative's campaigns have been much more effective and targered better and the data gleaned from them put to better use. Paid Social ads will be targeted at specific ages and demographics with specific messaing. The Conservatives used the data far better in their offline strategy to tap into peoples concerns when speaking with the public and on television.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #638
tisza said:
Wasn't that the concept behind Momentum? Supposed to be very effective on the organisational and social media front - were "praised for it" after 2017 election.
I do wonder about this emphasis on social media advertising. The most active social media age groups are those that have been strong labour voters anyway - as the vote gets older, the more conservative it becomes (and less likely to be using social media)
Click to expand...

It’s Facebook that Labour are poor at. Has an older and larger demographic. Also targeted advertising is a very different strategy to simply getting stuff trending on Twitter which is where Momentum’s strengths are. The world moved on basically.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #639
There was a good analysis of the difference between the two advertising strategies I saw. Labour spent a lot on a few adverts and they mostly were designed to fire up the base. The Tories did what we do at work which is spend a little on a lot of test ads then double down on the ones that work towards the end of the campaign, they also targeted specific voter types they knew they needed with messages designed to resonate.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #640
Ian1779 said:
To be fair - irrespective of their agendas and splits, come election time they unite behind a single voice. Labour couldn’t follow suit.
Click to expand...

That's it in a nutshell.
Loads of Tories hate Johnson but they never did their grievances during the GE campaign.

They know there's a time for infighting and a time for pulling together.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #641
shmmeee said:
It’s Facebook that Labour are poor at. Has an older and larger demographic. Also targeted advertising is a very different strategy to simply getting stuff trending on Twitter which is where Momentum’s strengths are. The world moved on basically.
Click to expand...
I agree with this - I think they thought after 2017 that Facebook would be a redundant avenue and it was all about Twitter, Instagram and the like.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #642
Sick Boy said:
The Conservative's campaigns have been much more effective and targered better and the data gleaned from them put to better use. Paid Social ads will be targeted at specific ages and demographics with specific messaing. The Conservatives used the data far better in their offline strategy to tap into peoples concerns when speaking with the public and on television.
Click to expand...
You mean mislead and lie.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #643
shmmeee said:
It’s Facebook that Labour are poor at. Has an older and larger demographic. Also targeted advertising is a very different strategy to simply getting stuff trending on Twitter which is where Momentum’s strengths are. The world moved on basically.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, if we are going off twitter Labour would have won with a majority lol.....
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #644
Ian1779 said:
I agree with this - I think they thought after 2017 that Facebook would be a redundant avenue and it was all about Twitter, Instagram and the like.
Click to expand...

The radical step of talking to real people faded years ago I guess
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #645
Ian1779 said:
I agree with this - I think they thought after 2017 that Facebook would be a redundant avenue and it was all about Twitter, Instagram and the like.
Click to expand...
Then whoever is/was in charge of their digital strategy is majorly incompetent.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #646
Sick Boy said:
Then whoever is/was in charge of their digital strategy is majorly incompetent.
Click to expand...

“hey guys shall we go for the platform with the biggest user base that reaches key swing voters?”

“Nah lolz FB is for boomers”
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #647
shmmeee said:
“hey guys shall we go for the platform with the biggest user base that reaches key swing voters?”

“Nah lolz FB is for boomers”
Click to expand...

surely MySpace is where it’s at?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #648
Ian1779 said:
surely MySpace is where it’s at?
Click to expand...
Faceparty I heard
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #649
Nick said:
Faceparty I heard
Click to expand...

If they wanted to target you they’d have been better off with Lemon Party.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #650
shmmeee said:
If they wanted to target you they’d have been better off with Lemon Party.
Click to expand...
Goatsxe or whatever it was
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #651
Nick said:
Goatsxe or whatever it was
Click to expand...

“or whatever it was”

 
Reactions: clint van damme

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #652
Sick Boy said:
Then whoever is/was in charge of their digital strategy is majorly incompetent.
Click to expand...

Or naive in the sense that they were only targeting young people as they thought it would be enough to get over the line.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #653
Ian1779 said:
Or naive in the sense that they were only targeting young people as they thought it would be enough to get over the line.
Click to expand...

Data for demographics of all seats is freely available. If they were naive as to who to target frankly that’s incompetence.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #654
shmmeee said:
Data for demographics of all seats is freely available. If they were naive as to who to target frankly that’s incompetence.
Click to expand...
Again - don’t disagree. I think the reality is they knew their Brexit position was going to be dismissed unilaterally outside of the cosy Remain urban areas, so it was easier to focus on something else.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #655
Nick said:
Faceparty I heard
Click to expand...
Cor forgot about that, the Tinder of the early 00s
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2020
  • #656
I find it somewhat ironic that Starmer being a Sir is getting so much support from so many anti-establishmet/traditionalist Labour rank & file.

A Sir (whatever) Tory leader would be despised from the off!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: fatso
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2020
  • #657
SkyblueBazza said:
I find it somewhat ironic that Starmer being a Sir is getting so much support from so many anti-establishmet/traditionalist Labour rank & file.

A Sir (whatever) Tory leader would be despised from the off!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Let's be honest, you'd criticise any of the choices.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2020
  • #658
SkyblueBazza said:
I find it somewhat ironic that Starmer being a Sir is getting so much support from so many anti-establishmet/traditionalist Labour rank & file.

A Sir (whatever) Tory leader would be despised from the off!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You realise it’s unearned privilege that left wing people don’t like? Just Johnson and Rees-Mogg have. Talentless weirdos who fell into a pot of money at birth and don’t have to work for it?

Working class kids who rise to QC is kinda our thing.

What next Baz? Labour hates people who help others and aren’t racist? Have you had the parties mixed up this entire time?
 
Reactions: torchomatic, Deleted member 5849, clint van damme and 3 others

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2020
  • #659
shmmeee said:
You realise it’s unearned privilege that left wing people don’t like? Just Johnson and Rees-Mogg have. Talentless weirdos who fell into a pot of money at birth and don’t have to work for it?

Working class kids who rise to QC is kinda our thing.

What next Baz? Labour hates people who help others and aren’t racist? Have you had the parties mixed up this entire time?
Click to expand...
Epic fail from Bazza there.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2020
  • #660
SkyblueBazza said:
I find it somewhat ironic that Starmer being a Sir is getting so much support from so many anti-establishmet/traditionalist Labour rank & file.

A Sir (whatever) Tory leader would be despised from the off!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It was in recognition of services to the legal profession wasn’t it?

I don’t see the problem - it’s not an inherited title - again they need to pick a leader that ticks core competencies and at least he does that in areas Corbyn would always look second best
 
Reactions: torchomatic, Deleted member 5849, Sick Boy and 1 other person

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2020
  • #661
Grendel said:
It was in recognition of services to the legal profession wasn’t it?

I don’t see the problem - it’s not an inherited title - again they need to pick a leader that ticks core competencies and at least he does that in areas Corbyn would always look second best
Click to expand...

Every departing QC gets made a Sir I believe.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2020
  • #662
shmmeee said:
Every departing QC gets made a Sir I believe.
Click to expand...

Fair enough it’s not inherited titles like Thornberry married into and Benn. It’s not privilege either way
 
Reactions: shmmeee

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2020
  • #663
It's just a title. No other benefits with it. Awarded for services, just slightly higher up the rankings than OBEs, MBEs etc.
Many senior Civil service bods end up with one.
Besides might fool a couple of the more guilible voters into thinking they're voting Conservative
 

fatso

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2020
  • #664
shmmeee said:
You realise it’s unearned privilege that left wing people don’t like? Just Johnson and Rees-Mogg have. Talentless weirdos who fell into a pot of money at birth and don’t have to work for it?

Working class kids who rise to QC is kinda our thing.

What next Baz? Labour hates people who help others and aren’t racist? Have you had the parties mixed up this entire time?
Click to expand...
Labour arnt racist??? Really? I think a few Jews might have issues with that.
But hey, we wont see a labour government for at least 10 years, and probably 20 years realistically.
Changing the leader, without purging the party of momentum, and freeing it of the iron grip of the trade unions is like changing the captain of the Titanic, AFTER its hit the iceberg!
The reality is the labour party no longer represent the working class, (the Torries never did, but they haven't alienated their grass roots)
Blaming their social media campaign for their abject failure is living in denial.
The fact is many many voters view Labour as a laughing stock, and not fit for office, to this day we dont know Corbyn's stance on brexit !!!
I've said before, I work on a factory shop floor, and been a union member for over 30 years, but virtually all my colleagues voted against labour. (Not all for the Tory's) when that happens, just changing the party leader isn't the answer.
There are many problems with the conservative party, and Boris is a bumbling toff, but the fact that they thrashed labour in the GE means that labour needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom if it's to ever compete effectively again.
 
Last edited: Jan 25, 2020

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 25, 2020
  • #665
www.bbc.com/news/uk-51245211

interesting interpretations of the causes of these membership rises. Guess they'll only find out the real reason when the votes are cast.
 
Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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