New Club? (2 Viewers)

[mark82]

So you think that you'd get as many go as we have season ticket holders now and that will sustain enough revenue to fund the match day costs at the Ricoh? You think an American investor will buy a club 9 leagues down.

3 season ticket holders on this thread have said no to the idea which may say something.

Do you ever remember a 70s American programme where a little guy used to shout "the plane, the plane" - you most still be living there.

Most true supporters would still follow the club regardless of the league it was in.

I don't think PH4 would invest as he is looking for a club with Premier League ambitions. By this he means in the near future I would suggest. Should be fan ownership if a Phoenix club had to be started maybe with a small amount of outside investment. Would have to be at least 50% supporter owned.

 

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[NorthernWisdom]

OR;
perhaps ACL would offer the new club a rent commensurate to the league they would start in, increasing the rent or decreasing the rent as the new club moved up or down the league system.
You know, just like the one CCFC were offered right at the start but which was turned down by the then chairman Mr. McGinnity in favour of the current fixed rent contract that is supposedly at the root of all our current problems?
So many very conveniently ignore the historical FACTS that led us to where we now are.

And it is only your personal opinion that someone would have to subsidise ACL in the meantime under such conditions. The statutory auditors of ACL expressed a different opinion by signing off on the accounts of ACL in full knowledge of the rent strike and the potential loss of that income. I think I prefer to accept the statutory auditors opinion over your opinion in this matter.

ACl is more than the ground though isn't it.

And as their final offer with no negotiation was c. £400k pa, it's fair to say they have no room to move on that without subsidising the ground.

Therefore someone has to subsidise the ground.

ALL other non league clubs that have risen have crashed and burned if they start in a stadium beyond their means like the Ricoh would be, ALL of them. History tells us that doesn't work.

Why would you weld a club to a stadium that handicaps it early on? It makes no sense to do so!

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

ACl is more than the ground though isn't it.

And as their final offer with no negotiation was c. £400k pa, it's fair to say they have no room to move on that without subsidising the ground.

Therefore someone has to subsidise the ground.

ALL other non league clubs that have risen have crashed and burned if they start in a stadium beyond their means like the Ricoh would be, ALL of them. History tells us that doesn't work.

Why would you weld a club to a stadium that handicaps it early on? It makes no sense to do so!

How on Earth do you conclude if X then Y with no further input or information? This is pure guesswork and assumption on your part and has no basis in fact. Again, I will take the professional opinion of the statutory auditors over such guesswork.

And I am not saying that any new club should play at the Ricoh, I was merely countering your argument concerning the viability of ACL under such circumstances and of a new club playing at the Ricoh being unsustainable.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

How on Earth do you conclude if X then Y with no further input or information? This is pure guesswork and assumption on your part and has no basis in fact. Again, I will take the professional opinion of the statutory auditors over such guesswork.

Is ACL responsible for more than just the stadium?

If it could handle a rent less than £400k, why is this a non negotiable final offer?

I'm not saying ACL is unviable if the club moves out, I'm suggesting that if the club stays there at a rent lower than that, somebody has to subsidise the stadium, based on their own negotiating position. I'm not saying ACL have to in fact, I'm saying it would be unfair to expect them to. I'm perfectly sympathetic to a position where they have moved as far as they are able to go.

 

[wingy]

Is ACL responsible for more than just the stadium?

If it could handle a rent less than £400k, why is this a non negotiable final offer?

I'm not saying ACL is unviable if the club moves out, I'm suggesting that if the club stays there at a rent lower than that, somebody has to subsidise the stadium, based on their own negotiating position.n I'm not saying ACL have to in fact, I'm saying it would be unfair to expect them to. I'm perfectly sympathetic to a position where they have moved as far as they are able to go.

Not necessarily ,if they owned said club they would have gate reciepts, admittedly they would incur costs of running a club.:thinking about:

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Not necessarily ,if they owned said club they would have gate reciepts, admittedly they would incur costs of running a club.:thinking about:

And a non league club sub conference would have remarkably small gates compared to now.

That's not an insult, it'd still have huge gates compared to its competition, but the same as we lose fans on relegation, we'd lose them then too.

And a smaller ground incurs less costs, and allows the club to actually grow until its in a position to need a bigger ground. We are Coventry City FC (or equivalent), we're not Ricoh Arena FC. It's not like this is the ground we've played in for 100 years. If ACL don't need the club then great, it's not hurting anyone, but a reformed club certainly wouldn't need the Ricoh, at least not to begin with.

If it does later reassess. if the Ricoh isn't available later then the goodwill built up would allow us to have our ground on our terms in our city with no suspicion and no mistrust, because we wouldn't be leaving the city while it was built.

But we're not fighting club owning ground other than Ricoh are we? I thought we were fighting 'don't believe a word SISU say about club owning ground that's not the Ricoh'

 

[carlh25]

I think that if Sisu are taking the club out of Coventry then people should seriously take a look at what fc utd have achieved and also Leamington. The best example of a team would be Wimbledon. They have risen through and sustained reasonable gates. FC utdcurrently share burys ground and have good gates but it just depends who is behind this because if you can get a couple of thousand who all contribute then I'm sure it would be a starter. It would need to have the club outgrowing the stadium scenario rather than vice versa otherwise the club will end up like the current ccfc.

 

[skybluealan]

Darlington could only open 50% of the ground due to police restrictions. 11,000 max in a 27,000 stadium. The ground is now a rugby union ground with Mowden playing there. Crowds of 1000 and still going well. Darlington won their league with ease accumulating over 110 points and 150 goals +, playing 20 miles away on a ground share but still getting an average of 1100 fans. None of us want Coventry to go this way but as long as SISU are there, they will drain every bit of life out of us. It may be the only way togo, I for one will always support Coventry.

Darlington tried opening only bits of their ground but it was just too big for them, killed the club.[/QUOTE]

 

[NorthernWisdom]

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/9461018.New_setback_in_Quakers_rescue_bid/

One option discussed was whether the existing stadium could be demolished and replaced with a smaller ground which was more economical for the club to run.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/...rlington-insolvent-arena-trust-administration

The last owner, Raj Singh, appointed Madden after declaring the club unsustainable at the arena, having thrown in around £2m in three years, and been crippled by the stadium's running costs. A local consortium is looking into salvage possibilities, but the overwhelming obstacle is the vanity stadium Reynolds built and named after himself.

With crowds of less than 2,000 huddled into one stand, the Darlington Arena is a rattling monument to the reckless buying, selling and mismanagement of historic football clubs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17916404

Even prior to the club's relegation from the Blue Square Bet Premier this season, the costs of running the stadium as an ongoing proposition were prohibitive under the budget.

Former chairman Raj Singh revealed to the BBC earlier this year that monthly costs for maintenance and bills amounted to £10,000 per month .

In addition the owners of the land, Graham Scott and Philip Sizer, were paid a £10,000 'peppercorn rent' for hire

These among many hundreds of articles, all saying the same thing, everybody from respected football finance journalists to owners to funders to fans, all saying Darlington could not afford their ground. It would be insanity to start a new club at the Ricoh unless you want to kill it too before it even begins.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/9461018.New_setback_in_Quakers_rescue_bid/



http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/...rlington-insolvent-arena-trust-administration



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17916404



These among many hundreds of articles, all saying the same thing, everybody from respected football finance journalists to owners to funders to fans, all saying Darlington could not afford their ground. It would be insanity to start a new club at the Ricoh unless you want to kill it too before it even begins.

You are very likely correct in your assumption, but I don't think that any phoenix club would actually start at the Ricoh. The Ricoh would have to remain an option if/when the club attained league status.
If the ACL statutory auditors were correct in their opinion of ACL as a going concern, then ACL and the Ricoh will be there ready to welcome the Phoenix club with open arms.

 

[Thorny Subject]

A new club might be all that's left to do.
Picture the scenario - CCFC leave Cov to play wherever. The squad is down to bare bones, there is still a transfer embargo, there must be a strong possibility of relegation next season. By this time much of the support that stayed with the club will have drifted away.
If they do start the process of a new stadium, from the point of acquiring access to the land, right through the process of applying for planning permission with all the consultations needed to the issue of the Building Regulations completion certificate and all the safety certificates would take about 5 years. There would be major objections from locals to having a stadium on their doorstep which could possibly scupper the project. They would need 2 or 3 alternative sites to be sure one of them would be approved.
By the time all this has happened, what league would the club be playing in. The way SISU run things, every chance Blue Square Premier League ?
While all this has been going on, if a new club was set up, perhaps playing at a smaller ground to start with, with a reasonable amount of funding, it is entirely possible that a new club could be playing in the same league as the "returning" club. The support would have aligned itself with the new and properly run, SISU free club, There would be nothing for them to return to. SISU would have spent a shed load of money for nothing. Supporter power would have won the war. When the SISU run club inevitably folded, the new club could be re-named Coventry City, and hopefully return to the Ricoh, with a much healthier future to look forward to.

How about this scenario. ACL have long argued that there business model is not solely dependant on the football club. If this is the case then why do they not offer Nuneaton Town to play at the ricoh for a minimal rent. The fans then have a choice of continue to follow the sisu led coventry city outside the city for 3 years, or spend the saturday afternoons at the ricoh getting behind the new tennants. Eventually Nuneaton become the "new coventry city" and change kits, club badge etc and attract what would be good crowds for the conference. It means we start life in the blue square prm which is where the sisu led club will be heading anyway.... just a thought.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

If this is the case then why do they not offer Nuneaton Town to play at the ricoh for a minimal rent.

It would be sickening to even think of moving Nuneaton out of their home town into a different city.

Sickening and immoral.

Eventually Nuneaton become the "new coventry city" and change kits, club badge etc and attract what would be good crowds for the conference.

Even worse!

 

[torchomatic]

But would the Ricoh remain an option. Are the owners of the complex - the wonderful ACL and CCC - really going to (literally) let the grass grow and wait until we're back at a high enough level in the pyramid to be able to potentially move back? I doubt it.

This is what makes the whole situation ludicrous from both sides.

You are very likely correct in your assumption, but I don't think that any phoenix club would actually start at the Ricoh. The Ricoh would have to remain an option if/when the club attained league status.
If the ACL statutory auditors were correct in their opinion of ACL as a going concern, then ACL and the Ricoh will be there ready to welcome the Phoenix club with open arms.

 

[torchomatic]

But would the Ricoh remain an option. Are the owners of the complex - the wonderful ACL and CCC - really going to (literally) let the grass grow and wait until we're back at a high enough level in the pyramid to be able to potentially move back? I doubt it.

This is what makes the whole situation ludicrous from both sides.

You are very likely correct in your assumption, but I don't think that any phoenix club would actually start at the Ricoh. The Ricoh would have to remain an option if/when the club attained league status.
If the ACL statutory auditors were correct in their opinion of ACL as a going concern, then ACL and the Ricoh will be there ready to welcome the Phoenix club with open arms.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

But would the Ricoh remain an option. Are the owners of the complex - the wonderful ACL and CCC - really going to (literally) let the grass grow and wait until we're back at a high enough level in the pyramid to be able to potentially move back? I doubt it.

This is what makes the whole situation ludicrous from both sides.

If it's used for something else in the meantime, the club either grows where it lands or builds elsewhere.

The more sporting and leisure facilities in the city the better, surely!

 

[Thorny Subject]

It would be sickening to even think of moving Nuneaton out of their home town into a different city.

Sickening and immoral.



Even worse!

Sickening to think of moving nuneaton to a stadium that is nearer to nuneaton than it is coventry?, or any less sickening and immoral than watching Coventry City play in Walsall?. If the council and ACL have the balls to do this, they potentially leave sisu with nothing other than a club in name alone, while the fans, heart and revenue streams of that club have gone elsewhere.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I can't believe someone would even on the one hand complain about Coventry moving out of Coventry temporarily, and on the other want to take a club away from its fans and take away its entire identity!

It's so amazingly disrespectful to Nuneaton it's astounding!

 

[mark82]

I can't believe someone would even on the one hand complain about Coventry moving out of Coventry temporarily, and on the other want to take a club away from its fans and take away its entire identity!

It's so amazingly disrespectful to Nuneaton it's astounding!

Crazy isn't it. Don't know why some people think this is even a semi reasonable thing to suggest. It's just idiotic.