New article on Guardian online - 2nd on today (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter AFCCOVENTRY
- Start date
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
SISU established an investment project then sought investors. Those investors signed up and paid their money on the basis of the terms and offer made by SISU. Part of those terms would be that their investment would be managed for them by SISU. SISU then appointed a Board of directors. Apparently they like to let the Board just get on with it always knowing one of their own (Onye) is on the Board to keep tabs on things. SISU funds as shareholders can always remove some or all of the Board. So in the end the ultimate control is by SISU who are appointed as the managing agents for the funds invested. SISU would be involved in all major decisions because Onye on the Board but more importantly the investors they represent have provided the major funding so far. The actual investors in the SISU funds are not involved in the decision making - they have delegated that responsibility to SISU and pay them fees to do it
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
FIrst-yeah, sorry, I know it was devils advocate. I'm not talking about football being different from business in the bad way you talk of-I mean it is of different cultural and social significance to a business of any other kind. It is a huge part of the community and the history of the city-thousands of spectators are stakeholders in a way that isn't recognised in cold business terms; it's unique. We aren't customers who can just switch brands if unhappy, either! Lots of things are there to protect football clubs, including the committee Collins is on-there should be more, and this is maybe too little too late, but I welcome it.
Second-very good point. Why us, why now?
Midlands Today seemed to imply it was somehow connected with the fans being unhappy-woot if so, but somehow I doubt it!
It's not really like a Conservative to be getting on the back of Private Equity, is it? Something deeper seems to lie in this..has he had a tip off about the identity of one of SISU, or has he become aware of some dodgy practice? Is it something to do with the arena, or other future intentions he has been made aware of?
Or is it simply that he shares the view of journalists like Conn, who think that there is no place in football for cold hearted businessmen that have only their own interests at heart, and not the fans or the club? Whelan, Madjeski, Lerner, Stoke geezer..there are more chairman and owners in football who put money into their club than take it out, and it is usually because they are connected to the community or passionate about the club.
Because that's what I've found unpalatable about SISU all along. I'm a person who finds much of modern business practise disgusting and morally corpulent; just because the dog-eat-dog world of capitalism dominates out modern perspective (and indeed may be being exposed somewhat of late!), doesn't make it right-or right for sport. Call me naive, but football is different. But then, I blame SKY for ruining our game anyway!!
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is any coincidence that this article was published around the same time rumours of a revival of the Hoff's bid.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I think there is a balance to be made Nonleague. I agree that sport in general is and should be about more things than money, but it is the owners that put that social and cultural significance at risk by throwing the good business principles out of the window. But as an owner of a business I have always thought my business should be more than just money. Too many owners go on an ego trip and make it very clear that their club is their plaything ..... there are few owners like Dave Whelan at Wigan and that is a great shame. Yes they are passionate about football and their club. Yes there are the ideals of being part of the community etc but having met with a few somehow it gets lost in the ego of owning the club far too often.
One thing I am very keen on is the fans actually having part of the ownership, that to me breeds transparency, community and responsibility. Sadly there is no such involvement in our club, but plenty of spin and mirrors. Connection with the community is essential and that is where SISU went completely wrong - they didnt buy into that at all
One thing I am very keen on is the fans actually having part of the ownership, that to me breeds transparency, community and responsibility. Sadly there is no such involvement in our club, but plenty of spin and mirrors. Connection with the community is essential and that is where SISU went completely wrong - they didnt buy into that at all
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
AFC Wimbledon. A role model to all clubs and punching miles above their weight, seemingly on an infinite but steady upwards curve-just like the good old days. It wouldn't be that hard to look in a crystal ball and see that small, community-based and run club which came back from the dead sitting in our division whilst many others throw money at it and fail. Or like us, don't throw money at it and fail :facepalm:
ashbyjan
Well-Known Member
I 100% agree with you OSB about fan representation at board level and in the interests of fairness I have to tell you that ranson was as much against this as SISU themselves. During the takeover I had a minor role with the Trust and several meetings were held with ranson who made noises encouraging the belief that fans on board would happen, but once all the shares had been acquired by whatever means this was totally renaged on. Under these people it will never happen, even the supporters consultative group has been watered down and down until it us meaningless. For a club to get back to its roots its vital that it interacts with the fans, works with them, with the community but these guys don't see that as that is long term planning - not their style.
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
So we should start a new club?
Where would we play?
Where would we play?
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
On the BBC now the story.... really not good PR for SISU.... well done Gary :claping hands: Revenge is sweet...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-15092305
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-15092305
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Having just watched a load of Conference coverage..SISU are clearly Predators and not Producers! I guess saying that their "wealth is built on sand" would only be fair if we bloody knew who they are. But if you judge a man by his actions, you don't have to see his face :thinking about:
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
The line I just heard in an interview, on Private Equity, was;
"If you buy a company, load it with debt, strip it's assets and leave it as a husk, you are not a responsible owner".
So it's not just football where a debate about business and responsibility is being had-it's a key issue for this nations future.
"If you buy a company, load it with debt, strip it's assets and leave it as a husk, you are not a responsible owner".
So it's not just football where a debate about business and responsibility is being had-it's a key issue for this nations future.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
- the introduction of a strong and formal club licensing model in English football
- the introduction of a rigorous fit and proper persons test for club owners and directors
- the abolition of the football creditors rule (which sees footballers and football clubs paid what they are owed first if a club goes into administration)
- changes to the law to recognise the special nature of supporters' trusts, and to make fund raising easier for these trusts
- for the FA to review and improve grass roots football spending, and to raise the level of coaching
- for the FA to review the structure of its board and council
Questions .....
AFC Wimbledon who is classed as the owner in terms of what Mr Collins sees ? Who gets to be subject of the fit and proper tests at AFC Wimbledon? At what point generally do we say thats enough checking we are happy with what we know?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
very true wingy.
I dont have a problem with making money from those opportunities but I have an expectation that in doing so community and social responsibilities are taken seriously and accommodated/funded properly
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Very hard to see an argument against any of the recommendations made by the Commons' Culture Media and Sport Committee. My concern is that when it comes to facing up to big business, politics too often proves impotent these days. But then in a world where even Murdoch is now scrutinised, maybe I'm being too cynical? Maybe this is the start of a sea-change.
Not too sure re: Wimbledon, OSB but Eric Samuelson is Chief Exec and generally loved by the fans-I guess he provisionally is the man who would be examined in terms of being responsible for things, but he is very much a figurehead. Here's the Wiki summary on the ownership;
AFCW PLC was placed under the ownership of The Dons Trust, a supporters' group which has pledged to retain at least 75% control of that ownership. In 2003, however, a minority interest was sold in a share issue in order to finance the purchase of Kingsmeadow, the ground that AFCW part owned with Kingstonian; given the circumstances of the club's formation, this decision raised some concerns.[citation needed]
The Dons Trust is an Industrial and Provident Society registered with the Financial Services Authority as "Wimbledon Football Club Supporters' Society Limited". This is not to be confused with Wimbledon Independent Supporters Association (WISA) although WISA has as one of its stated constitutional aims "to purchase shares in AFC Wimbledon's holding company".
The Chief Executive is Erik Samuelson who carries out his full-time duties in return for the nominal sum of one guinea a year, because "it sounded posher than a pound". [12]
Not too sure re: Wimbledon, OSB but Eric Samuelson is Chief Exec and generally loved by the fans-I guess he provisionally is the man who would be examined in terms of being responsible for things, but he is very much a figurehead. Here's the Wiki summary on the ownership;
AFCW PLC was placed under the ownership of The Dons Trust, a supporters' group which has pledged to retain at least 75% control of that ownership. In 2003, however, a minority interest was sold in a share issue in order to finance the purchase of Kingsmeadow, the ground that AFCW part owned with Kingstonian; given the circumstances of the club's formation, this decision raised some concerns.[citation needed]
The Dons Trust is an Industrial and Provident Society registered with the Financial Services Authority as "Wimbledon Football Club Supporters' Society Limited". This is not to be confused with Wimbledon Independent Supporters Association (WISA) although WISA has as one of its stated constitutional aims "to purchase shares in AFC Wimbledon's holding company".
The Chief Executive is Erik Samuelson who carries out his full-time duties in return for the nominal sum of one guinea a year, because "it sounded posher than a pound". [12]
Senior Vick from Alicante
Well-Known Member
Sorry to say this boys, but the thing that bothers me the most is that Igwe describes himself as a fund manager. To have my club described as a fund and investors expect a return in around 8 to 10 years is abhorent. It just shows what these bottom feeders think of us as the life blood of the club and the social history that the club had contributed to in the city for over 100 years. I hope that the council will veto any bid by these so called fund managers to get an asset in the Ricoh that should benfit the club and community and not the bank balances of faceless investors. In the old days they would be called spivs ! On a brighter note I went up on Tuesday for the first time this season and with a bit of luck and the continued support of the hardcore their may be some light at the end of the tunnel. Thorney just needs to get them to be braver on the ball, pass forward and not sideways, and despite SISU we may retain Championship status at the end of the season. PUSB
skyblueinBaku
Well-Known Member
They still are called spivs, Alicante - by me, because that's what they are.
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Could it be that we have a significant number of minor investors ,ie;ransons stake 16%,repaid £1.6m,in bennets affro's assumption Brodies stake 10%=£1m,suggesting as he says that they hav'nt taken much of a hit individually,and also suggesting an investment of around £10m. at the outset,raising the question of where the other £20m. of investment has come from?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
The £1.6m paid to Ranson had nothing to do with the value of the shares, I it was money left in the Group when he brought Prozone into it, it was a loan.
The investors are the 4 private equity funds plus Brody as it stands. The loans came from the private equity funds not Brody - up till 31/05/10
The investors are the 4 private equity funds plus Brody as it stands. The loans came from the private equity funds not Brody - up till 31/05/10
les_miserables
New Member
It may take a while but i expect big shit to hit the fan eventually, who prompted Collins ? who can use MP privelige to say what he wants. Probably explains why SISU are so sensitive to public protest too. Will be very interesting their responce at the next little demo. Also is it just a coincidence that our director for a day bloke resigned 24 hours after this broke. 3 years at Hull, 9 at Derby where he worked alongside our own Paul Clouting, yet there are supposedly issues with his references ??
sky blue zam
Member
a number of points here:
firstly we are in serious trouble with any business plan if mr onye didnt realise America is overseas
secondly dont let lenny brody hear you call him american
and thirdly when ranson was here he apparently owned 20% of the club and while others own les than 10% would he of not been major shareholder and would he have been the declared owner
honestmike
New Member
Does anyone know if anything came about from this? don't appear to be able to find anything about an outcome.
New article on Guardian online - 2nd on today
Damian Collins, a key member of the parliamentary culture, media and sport committee, has written to the sports minister, Hugh Robertson, expressing concern about Coventry City's ownership after the Football League said it does not know who owns the Championship club.
Since a takeover in 2008 which rescued Coventry from collapsing under £40m of bank debt, the club has been owned by unnamed investment funds, managed by a private equity company based in Hanover Street, Mayfair – Sisu Capital. A Sisu partner, Onye Igwe, manages the fund and is an active Coventry City director but he confirmed in an interview with the Guardian that the investors in Sisu's fund have not been publicly declared: "The funds for Coventry City are from institutional investors, some European, some American, some from overseas and some high-net-worth individuals," he said. "They are professional investors and they want confidentiality, which is normal practice in private equity."
Collins said he believes this is unsatisfactory because supporters have a right to know who ultimately owns their clubs. In his letter to Robertson the Conservative MP said the Football League should demand clubs say who owns them: "The football authorities should reframe their rules on club ownership to require a greater degree of transparency."
Collins took a lead during the committee's inquiry into football governance this year, questioning the structure of Leeds United, which was owned by trusts registered in offshore tax havens for six years until in May the club announced its chairman, Ken Bates, had bought it. The committee published its report in July, saying of Leeds's previous ownership: "There is no more blatant an example of lack of transparency."
Football League rules, identical to those in the Premier League, require clubs to make public the names of anybody "owning or controlling 10% or more of the interests in a club". The league told Collins that at Coventry no individual controls more than 10% and therefore nobody had to be identified, the same position the league adopted over Leeds when it was owned by the offshore trusts.
Collins recommended in his letter that Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs supports the football authorities "in trying to discover the ultimate ownership of football clubs". That echoed the committee's call in its report for the FA to carry out "a thorough investigation" into who owned Leeds between 2005 and this year and "if necessary to seek the assistance of HMRC". The FA has not responded, choosing to wait for the government's response, which Robertson's office said he is expected to finalise next month.
Collins, though, has gone further than calling for an investigation into ownership, saying the Football League should require all clubs to say who owns them, "as a condition of playing in the competition" – and be excluded from the league if they refused. "This is another example of football fans not knowing who owns their club," Collins told the Guardian. "I think this is wrong and have written to Hugh Robertson asking him to consider this when he responds to the select committee's report."
The sudden focus on the undeclared investors behind Coventry has taken Sisu somewhat by surprise at a time when, having spent £30m to no greatly positive effect, Igwe has acknowledged he needs to take more of a public role and explain their plans to supporters.
He said the investors are not mysterious, mostly not offshore, and many are "significant institutions" with which the public would feel comfortable but the nature of private equity investing is that they remain confidential. Igwe said they are "passive investors" who leave him to manage the fund and Coventry City: "We are not being anonymous: the funds and club are under the management of Sisu Capital, I am the fund's manager and a partner in Sisu, that is public."
An investment firm known for taking over debt-distressed companies and others they believe they can turn round, Sisu became interested in buying a Championship club around five years ago. They considered Southampton and Derby County before taking over at Coventry, in partnership with Ray Ranson, the entrepreneur and former Manchester City right-back, who became the chairman. Igwe said the investors in Sisu's funds are "agnostic" about what the firm would buy; they were interested in making a profit from their investments, although this could be delivered in eight to 10 years rather than rapidly. Championship clubs have increasingly become a target for buyers from afar, who see potential windfalls from winning promotion to the Premier League's multi-million pound honeypot.
For Coventry and Sisu, however, the course of securing that return has been far from smooth. Relegated from the Premier League in 2001 after a remarkable 34 years in the top flight, the Sky Blues had latterly sunk into £40m debts under the previous owners, who included Geoffrey Robinson, the Labour government's former paymaster-general. Although a high-quality new stadium, the Ricoh Arena, had been built and in 2005 Coventry moved to it from Highfield Road, home since 1899, the club itself does not own even a slice of the new ground.
The arena is owned jointly by Coventry City Council and a charitable trust named after the father of Sir Derek Higgs, a former club director, and the club pays close to £1.2m in rent to play there. All the income from the arena's sponsorship, and from food and drink bought by fans, goes to the arena company, not the club. This, Igwe says, makes it difficult for City to make enough money to compete, a problem set to worsen with financial fair-play break-even rules due to be applied in the Championship. "We do have a long-term plan to buy 50% of the stadium," Igwe said. "It is a very important part of our strategy to make the club successful."
Stripped of income sources that its Championship rivals do their best to milk, Sisu has spent £30m and haemorrhaged losses, £6m in the year to 31 May 2010, £8m the previous year, yet made no impact on the league. In March this year Sisu marshalled a "reorganisation" of the club which saw Ranson leave and have his £1.6m loans repaid, together with interest of £310,000.
Under the management of the former chief scout Andy Thorn, and the coach Steve Harrison, Igwe said he believes the changes have been positive, although the club face Blackpool on Tuesday in 22nd place, having started the season in relegation form.
For the Mayfair private equity firm, investment in football sees it a long way still from delivering a Premier League return to fans or investors – and now facing unfamiliar demands to state who those backers are.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/d...amian-collins?
Since a takeover in 2008 which rescued Coventry from collapsing under £40m of bank debt, the club has been owned by unnamed investment funds, managed by a private equity company based in Hanover Street, Mayfair – Sisu Capital. A Sisu partner, Onye Igwe, manages the fund and is an active Coventry City director but he confirmed in an interview with the Guardian that the investors in Sisu's fund have not been publicly declared: "The funds for Coventry City are from institutional investors, some European, some American, some from overseas and some high-net-worth individuals," he said. "They are professional investors and they want confidentiality, which is normal practice in private equity."
Collins said he believes this is unsatisfactory because supporters have a right to know who ultimately owns their clubs. In his letter to Robertson the Conservative MP said the Football League should demand clubs say who owns them: "The football authorities should reframe their rules on club ownership to require a greater degree of transparency."
Collins took a lead during the committee's inquiry into football governance this year, questioning the structure of Leeds United, which was owned by trusts registered in offshore tax havens for six years until in May the club announced its chairman, Ken Bates, had bought it. The committee published its report in July, saying of Leeds's previous ownership: "There is no more blatant an example of lack of transparency."
Football League rules, identical to those in the Premier League, require clubs to make public the names of anybody "owning or controlling 10% or more of the interests in a club". The league told Collins that at Coventry no individual controls more than 10% and therefore nobody had to be identified, the same position the league adopted over Leeds when it was owned by the offshore trusts.
Collins recommended in his letter that Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs supports the football authorities "in trying to discover the ultimate ownership of football clubs". That echoed the committee's call in its report for the FA to carry out "a thorough investigation" into who owned Leeds between 2005 and this year and "if necessary to seek the assistance of HMRC". The FA has not responded, choosing to wait for the government's response, which Robertson's office said he is expected to finalise next month.
Collins, though, has gone further than calling for an investigation into ownership, saying the Football League should require all clubs to say who owns them, "as a condition of playing in the competition" – and be excluded from the league if they refused. "This is another example of football fans not knowing who owns their club," Collins told the Guardian. "I think this is wrong and have written to Hugh Robertson asking him to consider this when he responds to the select committee's report."
The sudden focus on the undeclared investors behind Coventry has taken Sisu somewhat by surprise at a time when, having spent £30m to no greatly positive effect, Igwe has acknowledged he needs to take more of a public role and explain their plans to supporters.
He said the investors are not mysterious, mostly not offshore, and many are "significant institutions" with which the public would feel comfortable but the nature of private equity investing is that they remain confidential. Igwe said they are "passive investors" who leave him to manage the fund and Coventry City: "We are not being anonymous: the funds and club are under the management of Sisu Capital, I am the fund's manager and a partner in Sisu, that is public."
An investment firm known for taking over debt-distressed companies and others they believe they can turn round, Sisu became interested in buying a Championship club around five years ago. They considered Southampton and Derby County before taking over at Coventry, in partnership with Ray Ranson, the entrepreneur and former Manchester City right-back, who became the chairman. Igwe said the investors in Sisu's funds are "agnostic" about what the firm would buy; they were interested in making a profit from their investments, although this could be delivered in eight to 10 years rather than rapidly. Championship clubs have increasingly become a target for buyers from afar, who see potential windfalls from winning promotion to the Premier League's multi-million pound honeypot.
For Coventry and Sisu, however, the course of securing that return has been far from smooth. Relegated from the Premier League in 2001 after a remarkable 34 years in the top flight, the Sky Blues had latterly sunk into £40m debts under the previous owners, who included Geoffrey Robinson, the Labour government's former paymaster-general. Although a high-quality new stadium, the Ricoh Arena, had been built and in 2005 Coventry moved to it from Highfield Road, home since 1899, the club itself does not own even a slice of the new ground.
The arena is owned jointly by Coventry City Council and a charitable trust named after the father of Sir Derek Higgs, a former club director, and the club pays close to £1.2m in rent to play there. All the income from the arena's sponsorship, and from food and drink bought by fans, goes to the arena company, not the club. This, Igwe says, makes it difficult for City to make enough money to compete, a problem set to worsen with financial fair-play break-even rules due to be applied in the Championship. "We do have a long-term plan to buy 50% of the stadium," Igwe said. "It is a very important part of our strategy to make the club successful."
Stripped of income sources that its Championship rivals do their best to milk, Sisu has spent £30m and haemorrhaged losses, £6m in the year to 31 May 2010, £8m the previous year, yet made no impact on the league. In March this year Sisu marshalled a "reorganisation" of the club which saw Ranson leave and have his £1.6m loans repaid, together with interest of £310,000.
Under the management of the former chief scout Andy Thorn, and the coach Steve Harrison, Igwe said he believes the changes have been positive, although the club face Blackpool on Tuesday in 22nd place, having started the season in relegation form.
For the Mayfair private equity firm, investment in football sees it a long way still from delivering a Premier League return to fans or investors – and now facing unfamiliar demands to state who those backers are.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/d...amian-collins?