Nationalism

Alan Dugdales Moustache

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Well if you could afford to go out why didn't you just not go out and use that money to get the more important things you didn't have instead of wasting it? That's your equivalent of a Costa coffee and a pizza. You're just refusing to acknowledge it as such.

So they could afford the phone box. That's because that's how far technology had got at the time. That'd be like in the future when everyone's got a virtual interface embedded in their brain saying "they could even afford to have a mobile phone". It's all relative.
I jest about phone boxes, but many people used them into the 1980s even though landline phones had been around for yonks. And the smell of piss was extraordinary.

As for having only 4 channels on TV I've never thought that today's generation have benefited . Now they have 600 channels of absolute shite.
What they never had so easy is not having to walk over to the telly every time you want to change channel. What a pain in the arse that was.
 

dubed

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interest rates were 8 times higher It’s monthly payments - my interest was £434 on a £12 grand salary so that’s without council tax utilities a life etc. had a £300 car and had to take a night job as the rate went up
I think whichever way you look at it, probably the one main disadvantage today is relative house prices, and which is due to QE. However, when this is discussed it's not understood that it was still economically tough for the working class to buy a house in the 80s, due to IRs being around 8-9 per cent (as I recall), and of course, shooting to near double this for a time.

Was very close to that situation that you describe. I was probably on around 9-10k, working at Peugeot and at one time my monthly repayment were around £380.

I lived with cast-off furniture for the first 5-8 years in my house.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

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Haha- if you’re talking about the same programme then that is one of my favourite programmes ever, it was called Lads Army and it was 2002 not 2012, although there were some follow ups. Random fact: I loved it so much I ended up becoming friends with several of the people on it as well as 2 of the officers 😄 Fantastic programme. Only thing I’d note is that there were big class divides in there too- all the ones who wanted to stay had had very few opportunities in life, the ones who’d been to private school/ had good families etc were generally (but not exclusively) the ones who couldn’t hack it and/or got booted off. Don’t know how that interacts with the debate you’re having but the impact of class was stark. And seeing as apparently we’re becoming one big middle class nowadays, maybe that makes a difference, who knows.

The full programme is on YouTube btw
I loved those kind of programmes. They literally don't make them like that an more .
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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I jest about phone boxes, but many people used them into the 1980s even though landline phones had been around for yonks. And the smell of piss was extraordinary.

As for having only 4 channels on TV I've never thought that today's generation have benefited . Now they have 600 channels of absolute shite.
What they never had so easy is not having to walk over to the telly every time you want to change channel. What a pain in the arse that was.
I get Alexa to change the channels these days
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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I think whichever way you look at it, probably the one main disadvantage today is relative house prices, and which is due to QE. However, when this is discussed it's not understood that it was still economically tough for the working class to buy a house in the 80s, due to IRs being around 8-9 per cent (as I recall), and of course, shooting to near double this for a time.

Was very close to that situation that you describe. I was probably on around 9-10k, working at Peugeot and at one time my monthly repayment were around £380.

I lived with cast-off furniture for the first 5-8 years in my house.
How much was the deposit?
 

dubed

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Then you take into account the fact the older generation either had free higher education along with a grant and the ability to sign on while a student, or it wasn't necessary for them to earn a decent living, could leave school get a well-paid secure job in a factory and that was them sorted.
So untrue. Only between 5-7% of boomers went on to A levels and to Uni (which is why as a country we could afford to subsidize), the rest left school to take up employment and pay taxes or, if they were unfortunate to leave school in the early Thatcherite era, had no jobs to go to. (Jobs started to dry out in late 79).
 
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dubed

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How much was the deposit?
Not sure what the relevance is, but as I recall the stricter laws around borrowing money required 10 per cent.

I remember that even in 1992 when I wanted to borrow 1500 from the bank to buy a motorcycle I had to book an appointment with the bank manager.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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Not sure what the relevance is, but as I recall the stricter laws around borrowing money required 10 per cent.

I remember that even in 1992 when I wanted to borrow 1500 from the bank to buy a motorcycle I had to book an appointment with the bank manager.
I was asking out of interest
 
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Alan Dugdales Moustache

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Alan Dugdales Moustache

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So untrue. Only between 5-7% of boomers went on to A levels and to Uni (which is why as a country we could afford to subsidize), the rest left school to take up employment and pay taxes or, if they were unfortunate to leave school in the early Thatcherite era, had no jobs to go to. (Jobs started to dry out in late 79).
I think around 1980 it wasn't much more than 10 % went to uni.
 

dubed

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People rented TV etc because they couldn't afford to buy them. Its not rocket science.
What's Carnaby Street got to do with the real world ? Do you think people in fashionable Carnaby Street were financially at the same level as those working in shops, offices and factories around the UK ?
Yes , they went to the cinema and the theatre, shock horror. It was a treat.

Are mobile phones and netflix a treat, or a necessity?

Lenders were happy to give 100% mortgages back in the 50s and 60s were they ? That's news to me .

I suppose they didn't even have to go into their local bank and sit down and discuss it with the bank manager. No. That never happened. Its all a myth.
You write a lot but where do you get all of this nonsense from.
You ought to interview someone in their 80s and establish the facts.
So true.

I always feel like I'm in the Monty Python Yorkshire men sketch in these sorts of debates, but the facts are that every generation for the last hundred years or so has been materially better off over their lifetime and enjoyed substantially greater personal and cultural freedoms.
 
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dubed

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I think around 1980 it wasn't much more than 10 % went to uni.
That's correct for the early 80s.

I went to Woodlands, and left in the late 70s. At that time, juts two or three boys from a class of 35 went into sixth form.

I got my chance at education when they started to do things like open access degrees in the late eighties. I paid for that degree and I achieved it by taking annual leave and finding time to study during nightshift.
 
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Alan Dugdales Moustache

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Not sure what the relevance is, but as I recall the stricter laws around borrowing money required 10 per cent.

I remember that even in 1992 when I wanted to borrow 1500 from the bank to buy a motorcycle I had to book an appointment with the bank manager.
I recall that 10% seemed to be generally the norm for a very long time. Then it dropped to 5%. When buy to let mortgages were more freely available that seemed to distort things more and you could buy a property to let based purely on potential income and not on the borrower's salary. Then it all went silly .
 
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Alan Dugdales Moustache

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That's correct.

I went to Woodlands, and left in the late 70s. At that time, juts two or three boys from a class of 35 went into sixth form.
Absolutely same here. I went in 1980 and the ration was the same.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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Hahah. You see, it's never been so easy to change from one lousy programme to another.
...and it's in colour.
My grandad born in 1923 boasted about having the only TV on his street and one of the first in Cov. In later years he rubbed in to my dad that he had a newer iPod. He only ran a newsagents but the way he sounded off you’d think he was Ian Beale on crack
 

dubed

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As for having only 4 channels on TV I've never thought that today's generation have benefited . Now they have 600 channels of absolute shite.
It was mainly shite on those 4 channels as well, though.

I grew up being tortured by the B&W minstrel show, Val Doonican, Arther Askey and Max Bygraves etc etc.

But we did have fireball xls, stingray, white horses, double deckers and the banana splits.

Not that I have any idea what any of this has to do with Nationalism.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

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It was mainly shite on those 4 channels as well, though.

I grew up being tortured by the B&W minstrel show, Val Doonican, Arther Askey and Max Bygraves etc etc.

But we did have fireball xls, stingray, white horses, double deckers and the banana splits
I’m just glad to have been young when the Simpsons was funny
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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So untrue. Only between 5-7% of boomers went on to A levels and to Uni (which is why as a country we could afford to subsidize), the rest left school to take up employment and pay taxes or, if they were unfortunate to leave school in the early Thatcherite era, had no jobs to go to. (Jobs started to dry out in late 79).
What's untrue? I didn't say loads of people went to higher education. I said it was free, had grants and you could sign on as unemployed to those smart/lucky enough to be able to do so.

So much of the uni intake when it was free came from the private schools who could have afforded to pay for it. When it opens up it costs and so still isn't as accessible to those worst off. Under Blair it became an obsession with getting people into uni so the increase in numbers made it unaffordable to subsidise. But due to the increase in numbers it just meant jobs that previously could be attained with a much lower education now required more. My mum got her job in a bank with a single O level. The same starting position when she retired 5 years ago had a minimum entry of a 2:1 degree.

As I also said the rest left school and many, in the pre-Thatcher era, were able to get relatively well-paid and secure jobs for relatively unskilled work, certainly compared to today.
 
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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I jest about phone boxes, but many people used them into the 1980s even though landline phones had been around for yonks. And the smell of piss was extraordinary.

As for having only 4 channels on TV I've never thought that today's generation have benefited . Now they have 600 channels of absolute shite.
What they never had so easy is not having to walk over to the telly every time you want to change channel. What a pain in the arse that was.
We didn't have our landline put in until about 1988, and even then no-one was allowed to use it apart from an emergency. I remember using phone boxes and the smell very well. Wasn't allowed to use the home phone to call friends until the mid-90's and even then only briefly.
 

clint van damme

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That's correct for the early 80s.

I went to Woodlands, and left in the late 70s. At that time, juts two or three boys from a class of 35 went into sixth form.

I got my chance at education when they started to do things like open access degrees in the late eighties. I paid for that degree and I achieved it by taking annual leave and finding time to study during nightshift.
skiving!
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

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It was mainly shite on those 4 channels as well, though.

I grew up being tortured by the B&W minstrel show, Val Doonican, Arther Askey and Max Bygraves etc etc.

But we did have fireball xls, stingray, white horses, double deckers and the banana splits.

Not that I have any idea what any of this has to do with Nationalism.
And they've remade Thunderbirds and it's absolutely rubbish. My grandkids say so. You can't see the strings for a start.
 
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Alan Dugdales Moustache

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We didn't have our landline put in until about 1988, and even then no-one was allowed to use it apart from an emergency. I remember using phone boxes and the smell very well. Wasn't allowed to use the home phone to call friends until the mid-90's and even then only briefly.
I was the same a dozen years earlier. I used to wonder what the point was in having it. It just sat there unused. The central heating wouldn't be allowed on until we turned blue and had to go off by 1 march whatever the weather.
As for double glazing, what the hell was that for ? We just scraped the ice off the windows and left tea towels on the windowsill. Bloody hell .
 
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dubed

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Yup. I did time at Peugeot Warehouse in Tile Hill. I'd been on the track at Ryton but they were looking for new blood at the warehouse. What a contrast to standing the same spot all day with a spot welder! You had to do 220 'lines' per day. Depending on the job you could get your day's work in within 90 mins to 3 hrs. All changed now of course. In fact, the changes started happening in the year that I left.

I use to study in the loos.
 
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dubed

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What's untrue? I didn't say loads of people went to higher education. I said it was free, had grants and you could sign on as unemployed to those smart/lucky enough to be able to do so.

So much of the uni intake when it was free came from the private schools who could have afforded to pay for it. When it opens up it costs and so still isn't as accessible to those worst off. Under Blair it became an obsession with getting people into uni so the increase in numbers made it unaffordable to subsidise. But due to the increase in numbers it just meant jobs that previously could be attained with a much lower education now required more. My mum got her job in a bank with a single O level. The same starting position when she retired 5 years ago had a minimum entry of a 2:1 degree.

As I also said the rest left school and many, in the pre-Thatcher era, were able to get relatively well-paid and secure jobs for relatively unskilled work, certainly compared to today.
Ah, fair does, and points taken. And whilst things did start to change around 77, it's the case that the fifties, sixties and seventies provided the working class with decently paid jobs with pensions and a good level of security, even if they were materially different times.
 
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dubed

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I was the same a dozen years earlier. I used to wonder what the point was in having it. It just sat there unused. The central heating wouldn't be allowed on until we turned blue and had to go off by 1 march whatever the weather.
As for double glazing, what the hell was that for ? We just scraped the ice off the windows and left tea towels on the windowsill. Bloody hell .
Youngsters eh, you tell them that you used to have party lines and they'd think it was a hotline to Love Island.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

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Ah, fair does, and points taken. And whilst things did start to change around 77, it's the case that the fifties, sixties and seventies provided the working class with decently paid jobs with pensions and a good level of security, even if they were materially different times.
And there's the rub : materially times have improved beyond recognition but I don't think the quality of life younger people have to face is better. I think it's worse.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

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Youngsters eh, you tell them that you used to have party lines and they'd think it was a hotline to Love Island.
In which case they'd have to run up to the phone box , stand in a puddle of piss and then find that their 10p wouldn't drop because some tosser with a home made swallow tattoo had rammed his chewing gum in the slot.
 
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dubed

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And there's the rub : materially times have improved beyond recognition but I don't think the quality of life younger people have to face is better. I think it's worse.
Difficult to say - I'm sure our parents would have said the same about the times that our generation has lived through. There are some positives about growing up today - the educational opportunities, personal freedoms, and a greater world view.

In particular, the sixties to the eighties (even beyond) were pretty oppressive if you weren't a straight, white male.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

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Difficult to say - I'm sure our parents would have said the same about the times that our generation has lived through. There are some positives about growing up today - the educational opportunities, personal freedoms, and a greater world view.

In particular, the sixties to the eighties (even beyond) were pretty oppressive if you weren't a straight, white male.
Sundays were absolutely terrible. Everything was shut. There was nothing to do and if it rained you stayed in your room . You had no telly, and your parents would be watching Stars on Sunday or some bloody awful equivalent of "My Family". You were absolutely fucked.
Your only saviour was the radio and the likes of Jimmy savile. How's about that then .......

Whatever else we all disagree on, Sundays were awful compared to what they are now and I'm not having it any other way.
 
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Brighton Sky Blue

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Sundays were absolutely terrible. Everything was shut. There was nothing to do and if it rained you stayed in your room . You had no telly, and your parents would be watching Stars on Sunday or some bloody awful equivalent of "My Family". You were absolutely fucked.
Your only saviour was the radio and the likes of Jimmy savile. How's about that then .......

Whatever else we all disagree on, Sundays were awful compared to what they are now and I'm not having it any other way.
To be fair whenever it rained at my grandparents' house it was fun reading copies of Goal and Shoot from the 80s that had Coventry down as 'the team to watch this decade'.
 

Ian1779

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Sundays were absolutely terrible. Everything was shut. There was nothing to do and if it rained you stayed in your room . You had no telly, and your parents would be watching Stars on Sunday or some bloody awful equivalent of "My Family". You were absolutely fucked.
Your only saviour was the radio and the likes of Jimmy savile. How's about that then .......

Whatever else we all disagree on, Sundays were awful compared to what they are now and I'm not having it any other way.
It could have been worse - you could have been forced to go to church because your Mum decided we had to keep up the pretence of being religious so that we could go to a Catholic school. Every Sunday was shit for 5 years...
 

RegTheDonk

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Sundays were absolutely terrible. Everything was shut. There was nothing to do and if it rained you stayed in your room . You had no telly, and your parents would be watching Stars on Sunday or some bloody awful equivalent of "My Family". You were absolutely fucked.
Your only saviour was the radio and the likes of Jimmy savile. How's about that then .......

Whatever else we all disagree on, Sundays were awful compared to what they are now and I'm not having it any other way.
Star Soccer with Hugh Johns aside, I'm with ya.
 

Sick Boy

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There are good and bad points about growing up in each of the eras being discussed and plenty of generalisations going on from both sides of the argument. Personally I wouldn't want to swap with the Baby Boomers and there are plenty of negatives for when they were growing up as well.
 

Grendel

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There are good and bad points about growing up in each of the eras being discussed and plenty of generalisations going on from both sides of the argument. Personally I wouldn't want to swap with the Baby Boomers and there are plenty of negatives for when they were growing up as well.
Apparently I may not even be one but a generation x it’s a close call