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Munich another shooting (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Captain Dart
  • Start date Jul 22, 2016
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martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #246
Nick said:
I'd say most suicide bombers want to kill themselves wouldn't they?

So what you are trying to get across it wasn't because of ISIS, it is a knock on event from the mentally ill guy hacking at people in the street? Had he not seen the media interest in ISIS then?
Click to expand...

Now what? He had tried to commit suicide twice because of personal reasons. Had he succeeded he wouldn't have helped ISIS. ISIS suicide bombers want to die for ISIS, not for personal reasons. This guy was unusual as he had his personal agenda- which was not in line with ISIS normal policy. A leading Professor put this theory forward, that he decided to make use of his suicide wish which was already there. Sounds plausible.. But the investigation is ongoing.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #247
martcov said:
Now what? He had tried to commit suicide twice because of personal reasons. Had he succeeded he wouldn't have helped ISIS. ISIS suicide bombers want to die for ISIS, not for personal reasons. This guy was unusual as he had his personal agenda- which was not in line with ISIS normal policy. A leading Professor put this theory forward, that he decided to make use of his suicide wish which was already there. Sounds plausible.. But the investigation is ongoing.
Click to expand...

Because somehow you are trying to somehow blame that bombing on the previous incident that wasn't ISIS saying it gave the guy the idea. Almost like he wasn't aware of suicide bombing's until he heard about that.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #248
Nick said:
Because somehow you are trying to somehow blame that bombing on the previous incident that wasn't ISIS saying it gave the guy the idea. Almost like he wasn't aware of suicide bombing's until he heard about that.
Click to expand...

There were no attacks in Germany until the machete in the train. We have had arse grabbers, Shop lifters and pick pockets to complain about, but we were not 'at war' with the muslim world. The Machete attack brought terror into the German home debate and may have influenced this already suicidal nut.
 
Reactions: CCFC Germany

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #249
I wonder if the attitudes by the few on this thread will change if something happens to them or their loved ones. All this accepting anyone with open arms, and overlooking all obvious dangers and facts is quite alarming, imagine if we were all as gullible.

Just to clarify, I wouldn't wish that to happen to anyone!
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #250
Nick said:
Yes, they were not ISIS but still classed as "terror" attacks. If you have a look back through the threads, when the guy stabbed the woman MP I said he should be classed the same as ISIS as it was no different to the soldier being stabbed on the street. He was a white bloke wasn't he?

It is nothing to do with racism, I have no doubt that people are racist but there is a long way between somebody saying kill all brown people and somebody having concerns about immigration isn't there?
Click to expand...

The guy who stabbed Cox did it for political reasons - he even shouted 'Britain first'. Not a derangier kid nor a jilted lover. No comparison.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #251
martcov said:
There were no attacks in Germany until the machete in the train. We have had arse grabbers, Shop lifters and pick pockets to complain about, but we were not 'at war' with the muslim world. The Machete attack brought terror into the German home debate and may have influenced this already suicidal nut.
Click to expand...

Where do you actually live in Germany? There's been loads of crazy shit happening on the street which I've seen with my own eyes before the machete attack. It's only now that shit is actually getting reported. Another pivotal moment was the Cologne attacks which were massively covered up, and these attacks didn't just happen in Cologne either...
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #252
ccfc92 said:
I wonder if the attitudes by the few on this thread will change if something happens to them or their loved ones. All this accepting anyone with open arms, and overlooking all obvious dangers and facts is quite alarming, imagine if we were all as gullible.

Just to clarify, I wouldn't wish that to happen to anyone!
Click to expand...

Did you read the recent post with the link to the Independent?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #253
martcov said:
The whole fuck up was caused by the British and French drawing lines on maps after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Choosing who was going to run these artificial countries and betraying the arabs allied to us. Merkel said 'wir schaffen es' when millions were already internally displaced or in neighbouring countries and already in Budapest chanting 'Germany!'.

The person who has least to do with the cause of all this is Merkel.
Click to expand...

Merkel has the least to do with the cause of all this?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #254
martcov said:
The guy who stabbed Cox did it for political reasons - he even shouted 'Britain first'. Not a derangier kid nor a jilted lover. No comparison.
Click to expand...

I was actually comparing him to somebody from ISIS / A Terrorist.
 
Reactions: martcov

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #255
CCFC Germany said:
I live in a city with thousand of refugees camping here and I am fine with that.
Groping assaults, bombings and other crimes commited by those only are still to happen here.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you live somewhere out the way in a small city which is largely unaffected, probably on the opposite side of the country to where the trouble has been mostly reported so far. Probably in a city with a population of probably no more than about 200,000 too?

The would probably explain why you haven't seen anything yet.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #256
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Where do you actually live in Germany? There's been loads of crazy shit happening on the street which I've seen with my own eyes before the machete attack. It's only now that shit is actually getting reported. Another pivotal moment was the Cologne attacks which were massively covered up, and these attacks didn't just happen in Cologne either...
Click to expand...

Kiel. I have Seen arab pickpockets in my pub and have heard shoplifting stories etc.. One incident made headlines everywhere. A pack of over 20 young refugees chasing 2 terrified girls through the shopping centre.

But........ The 20 odd youths or others were in the seating area using the free wifi as every day. It turned out 2 or 3 had taken photos and tried to chat the girls up. The kids got a warning and the police had to apologise for their misleading tweets. The witnesses confirmed that it was a mountain out of a mole Hill.

We had a lot passing through Last year on the way to Sweden. That was messy- hundreds living in the Ferry terminal. But everything is normal now.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #257
martcov said:
Kiel. I have Seen arab pickpockets in my pub and have heard shoplifting stories etc.. One incident made headlines everywhere. A pack of over 20 young refugees chasing 2 terrified girls through the shopping centre.

But........ The 20 odd youths or others were in the seating area using the free wifi as every day. It turned out 2 or 3 had taken photos and tried to chat the girls up. The kids got a warning and the police had to apologise for their misleading tweets. The witnesses confirmed that it was a mountain out of a mole Hill.

We had a lot passing through Last year on the way to Sweden. That was messy- hundreds living in the Ferry terminal. But everything is normal now.
Click to expand...

You see Kiel is pretty out the way, it's a small city too. So I guess I can understand why you haven't seen so much first hand.

I used to live in Sweden, and have spoken to many of the friends I made who still live in Gothenburg and Halmstad. They're pretty nervous right now, certainly don't have a lot of good to say about Malmo either. That city has become like Calais with no laws.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #258
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I'm guessing you live somewhere out the way in a small city which is largely unaffected, probably on the opposite side of the country to where the trouble has been mostly reported so far. Probably in a city with a population of probably no more than about 200,000 too?

The would probably explain why you haven't seen anything yet.
Click to expand...

Small towns are where the right wingers burn down refugee accomodation.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #259
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You see Kiel is pretty out the way, it's a small city too. So I guess I can understand why you haven't seen so much first hand.

I used to live in Sweden, and have spoken to many of the friends I made who still live in Gothenburg and Halmstad. They're pretty nervous right now, certainly don't have a lot of good to say about Malmo either. That city has become like Calais with no laws.
Click to expand...

Sweden has taken more per capita than anywhere in Europe.

Kiel has 250000 population and is 1 hour from Hamburg.

The policy is to spread the refugees throughout the country in the end- but places like Bavaria have taken more at the beginning because they are on the border.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #260
martcov said:
Small towns are where the right wingers burn down refugee accomodation.
Click to expand...

That does happen occasionally, when they're not busy burning their own accommodation down.

 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #261
martcov said:
Sweden has taken more per capita than anywhere in Europe.

Kiel has 250000 population and is 1 hour from Hamburg.

The policy is to spread the refugees throughout the country in the end- but places like Bavaria have taken more at the beginning because they are on the border.
Click to expand...

I know where Kiel is, I run a business from Hamburg. What's going on in the two cities (taking your account as genuine) is completely different.

Sweden is a fantastic place, but their going to regret taking in so many refugees. Mark my words.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #262
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I know where Kiel is, I run a business from Hamburg. What's going on in the two cities (taking your account as genuine) is completely different.

Sweden is a fantastic place, but their going to regret taking in so many refugees. Mark my words.
Click to expand...

I used to run my Business from Hamburg. I am often in Hamburg as my suppliers and friends are there. I used to live in Dulsberg - if that means anything to you ( Sozialbrennpunkt ) and I rent out 3 flats in Eilbek. I spend about 6 months a year away from Kiel and travel throughout Germany ( with the occaisional visit to CCFC when I get time ). I am now in NRW near Cologne as it happens (10 minutes by train ). In Berlin I stay at a girlfriend's flat in Neukölln. Which is very multiculti, but I have never had problems there. My girlfriend there is still helping refugees in addition to her fulltime job.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #263
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
That does happen occasionally, when they're not busy burning their own accommodation down.

'Occasionally' is playing it down somewhat - and using an example of refugees burning their home down is playing it up a bit. Comes under Spin I think...

Click to expand...
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #264
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I know where Kiel is, I run a business from Hamburg. What's going on in the two cities (taking your account as genuine) is completely different.

Sweden is a fantastic place, but their going to regret taking in so many refugees. Mark my words.
Click to expand...

BTW... If City are on Sky and it doesn't clash with HSV, we show it in my pub...
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #265
chiefdave said:
What should have happened is that there sure have been facilities to process refugees as they left the country. Place them temporarily into holding camps before distributing them through numerous countries. That way you could stop people from other countries claiming to be Syrian refugees for a start.

Why isn't there more camps like Zattari? That's what we need but its too late now. The genie is out of the bottle and nobody has a plan to put in back in.
Click to expand...

Correct Dave.

When Syrians started to flee their country many headed to Turkey. A safe country. Far from perfect but safe. The US and the UK spent huge sums establishing holding camps aimed at achieving precisely what you describe. The problems really started when Merkel opened her mouth and threw open the doors. That's when millions from the ME, North Africa, Pakistan and Bangladesh chanced their luck in search of a better future. Migrants not refugees.

A truly calamitous decision by Merkel.

I would argue that if Germany and the EU had invested their 5 billion euro Turkish bribe in camps and holding centres, the migrant crisis as we now know it would never have happened on anything like the scale we see it today.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart and Earlsdon_Skyblue1
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #266
martcov said:
I used to run my Business from Hamburg. I am often in Hamburg as my suppliers and friends are there. I used to live in Dulsberg - if that means anything to you ( Sozialbrennpunkt ) and I rent out 3 flats in Eilbek. I spend about 6 months a year away from Kiel and travel throughout Germany ( with the occaisional visit to CCFC when I get time ). I am now in NRW near Cologne as it happens (10 minutes by train ). In Berlin I stay at a girlfriend's flat in Neukölln. Which is very multiculti, but I have never had problems there. My girlfriend there is still helping refugees in addition to her fulltime job.
Click to expand...
A girl in every port............... I'm beginning to gain a bit more respect for you after all !
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #267
martcov said:
BTW... If City are on Sky and it doesn't clash with HSV, we show it in my pub...
Click to expand...

In fairness gong to watch HSV is a lot more fun than watching city.

About 7 of us stood in the terrace to watch them lose against Mainz last season. Had about 8 pints and it was mental.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #268

I've just shown you a video of refugees burning down their own accommodation, it's not spin, it's visual fact.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #269
Ashdown said:
A girl in every port............... I'm beginning to gain a bit more respect for you after all !
Click to expand...

Don't tell the missus....
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #270
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I've just shown you a video of refugees burning down their own accommodation, it's not spin, it's visual fact.
Click to expand...

Spin is when you suggest they burn more than the right wingers - as you just did. Show the near endless attacks on refugee homes and let people make their minds up who are more dangerous...
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #271
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
In fairness gong to watch HSV is a lot more fun than watching city.

About 7 of us stood in the terrace to watch them lose against Mainz last season. Had about 8 pints and it was mental.
Click to expand...

Never been, but I have a deal with the HSV Supporters club that I show all their games - without conference. For that I am in their web site under official places where you can watch HSV in Schleswig-Holstein.

They lose too much for my liking..... When they lose they leave straight after the game and when they win they stay and talk about the game - and drink more beer ;-)
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #272
Exac
martcov said:
I used to run my Business from Hamburg. I am often in Hamburg as my suppliers and friends are there. I used to live in Dulsberg - if that means anything to you ( Sozialbrennpunkt ) and I rent out 3 flats in Eilbek. I spend about 6 months a year away from Kiel and travel throughout Germany ( with the occaisional visit to CCFC when I get time ). I am now in NRW near Cologne as it happens (10 minutes by train ). In Berlin I stay at a girlfriend's flat in Neukölln. Which is very multiculti, but I have never had problems there. My girlfriend there is still helping refugees in addition to her fulltime job.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Now, there is no denying that you and your girlfriend are obviously good people, with your heart in the right place, but it's clouded your vision on the overall picture.

Not once have you mentioned or acknowledged pretty much anything negative about opening the doors to millions of refugees. Any valid criticisms people have raised on here you have batted away.

You may not have encountered any trouble first hand, but the whole thing is a mess. I spend a fair amount of time in Germany and have seen more trouble than you. I'm not lying or exaggerating, it's what I've seen. Other friends over there tell me the same if not worse, and even the media are struggling to keep a lid on it. I don't know if you simply hang out in different areas or what, but the trouble going on is clear as day.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #273
martcov said:
Spin is when you suggest they burn more than the right wingers - as you just did. Show the near endless attacks on refugee homes and let people make their minds up who are more dangerous...
Click to expand...

I've already made my mind up on who is more dangerous. Refugees, not regular citizens.

The last week of attacks is proof alone.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #274
SIR ERNIE said:
Correct Dave.

When Syrians started to flee their country many headed to Turkey. A safe country. Far from perfect but safe. The US and the UK spent huge sums establishing holding camps aimed at achieving precisely what you describe. The problems really started when Merkel opened her mouth and threw open the doors. That's when millions from the ME, North Africa, Pakistan and Bangladesh chanced their luck in search of a better future. Migrants not refugees.

A truly calamitous decision by Merkel.

I would argue that if Germany and the EU had invested their 5 billion euro Turkish bribe in camps and holding centres, the migrant crisis as we now know it would never have happened on anything like the scale we see it today.
Click to expand...

The problem was there - they had reached Budapest when Merkel said ' wir schaffen es '. I suspect Erdogan's calculation was to encourage them - by making it easy - to head for Europe, knowing that he would then get a good deal - and a free hand to do what the fxxk he wanted - in return. The bribe had to follow the wave of refugees.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #275
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Exac


Exactly. Now, there is no denying that you and your girlfriend are obviously good people, with your heart in the right place, but it's clouded your vision on the overall picture.

Not once have you mentioned or acknowledged pretty much anything negative about opening the doors to millions of refugees. Any valid criticisms people have raised on here you have batted away.

You may not have encountered any trouble first hand, but the whole thing is a mess. I spend a fair amount of time in Germany and have seen more trouble than you. I'm not lying or exaggerating, it's what I've seen. Other friends over there tell me the same if not worse, and even the media are struggling to keep a lid on it. I don't know if you simply hang out in different areas or what, but the trouble going on is clear as day.
Click to expand...

Not quite true - I have said that I have had Arab pickpockets in my pub and that there are shoplifters, arse grabbers and pickpockets in numbers. Many being NAFRIS ( North Africans ). I have also said they are chancers and should be sent back asap ( the Morocans are causing problems through petty crime in places like Hamburg ). They are also not refugees, but chancers who have thrown their papers away so they cannot be sent back. I have pointed out the problem of sending back several times. That doesn't mean I want these thieves here, but it is not as easy as people think. Still waiting to hear a sensible solution from you guys ( shooting the mentally ill and having hundreds of thousands being investigated by the German special branch are not sensible answers - the suggestions made yesterday ).
 
M

Monners

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #276
What some people are trying to say is that the UK should not let any refugees/asylum seekers/migrants in because we will end up with the problems that Germany is now experiencing (chuck France and Belgium into that too).

Simplistic and inaccurate to say the least.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849 and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #277
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I've already made my mind up on who is more dangerous. Refugees, not regular citizens.

The last week of attacks is proof alone.
Click to expand...

No it isn't actually. Two were Islamist attacks, but in no way coordinated ( one may be a hanger on in addition to his existing death wish ). The others were personal and not even new refugees ( Ernie's Merkel refugees ). Two attacks as against right wing crime which is on the increase. Burning homes, some occupied is potentially far more dangerous than the occasional mad man.

The main coordinated attacks are not aimed at Germany. We did have the French game called off because of a terror threat - but that was because of France. Hollande has said he will destroy ISIS, whereas Merkel has offered shelter to all refugees including a majority of Muslims. I don't think we are the preferred target. If some nut posts a video and has a hand painted flag, then ok, ISIS says wtf we'll call him a soldier - costs nothing and causes a bit of panic.

On a personal note, I have been beaten up by right wingers after the fall of the wall, but never had any violence aimed at me by refugees.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #278
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Exac


Exactly. Now, there is no denying that you and your girlfriend are obviously good people, with your heart in the right place, but it's clouded your vision on the overall picture.

Not once have you mentioned or acknowledged pretty much anything negative about opening the doors to millions of refugees. Any valid criticisms people have raised on here you have batted away.

You may not have encountered any trouble first hand, but the whole thing is a mess. I spend a fair amount of time in Germany and have seen more trouble than you. I'm not lying or exaggerating, it's what I've seen. Other friends over there tell me the same if not worse, and even the media are struggling to keep a lid on it. I don't know if you simply hang out in different areas or what, but the trouble going on is clear as day.
Click to expand...

One of your examples was a bouncer getting laid into at a club and your friends saying it was refugees. Bouncers have been getting laid into on and off for years. Sometimes Turks who had been thrown out ( they drink one cola and annoy the girls - the ones being thrown out not all Turks ), other times Albanians showing who is boss, other times rival security firms. This doesn't happen every day, but over the years these things happen. How did your friends discern that, in this case, it was refugees? I wouldn't be able to tell if it was at night and I didn't understand the language.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #279
Monners said:
What some people are trying to say is that the UK should not let any refugees/asylum seekers/migrants in because we will end up with the problems that Germany is now experiencing (chuck France and Belgium into that too).

Simplistic and inaccurate to say the least.
Click to expand...

If we open the doors to unlimited migrants/refugees there will be problems like France/Belgium/Germany. Guaranteed.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 27, 2016
  • #280
Monners said:
What some people are trying to say is that the UK should not let any refugees/asylum seekers/migrants in because we will end up with the problems that Germany is now experiencing (chuck France and Belgium into that too).

Simplistic and inaccurate to say the least.
Click to expand...

I don't think many are saying don't let ANY AT ALL in are they?

Just have stricter criteria and checks to filter out people who aren't actually in need. Stricter conditions for them being here (if they commit a crime, they get sent home for example)
 
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