Moussa (1 Viewer)

[covcity4life]

Well we have too if we deserve to win the cup

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

So you are saying to compete physically you need to be a top 3 striker, thats nonsense even for you. Also do you just dismiss every point you disagree with as irrelevant?
As a midfielder using your size is just as important, a major flaw in his game

Preston are a very physical side, Barton is not a very physical player. Therefore it wasn't the right game for him

All the mentioned players competed better than Barton, Barton just waves the ball by as it passes over his head

We didn't help Barton by going long but Preston made us play that way and Robins should have known that beforehand and picked a more appropriate side. it's not as if our passing was abysmal today and we were misplacing them constantly. It was that Preston weren't allowing us any space to pass the ball. If you think on another day we would have passed them to death and scored 4 goals you are mistaken. Preston would rather kick the shit out of the opposition and grapple the players to the ground before they allow you to play pretty triangles past them, any game against Preston will be a scrappy game

We would have been better off today playing with Sheff off Mcgoldrick today and trying to get Sheff in behind the Preston defence and get the defence turning towards there own goal

I never said that, what I said was: Ibba is a top 3 striker, he is complete a striker so needs to be good at heading! You have completely misunderstood, and may I ask, where did that come from?

On your logic then, would Barcelona not suit Stoke? Because Stoke our physical and Barca are not, no! Barcelona would pass the ball around Stoke and if we did that today, Barton would've chipped in. Your point here is flawed.

They competed better? I remember the two headers I was on about (down the right, so RB and RM) their player had a free header because no one competed, also, they still lost out in the air, that is the point, and that is the problem.

You have your opinions on Barton, but playing McSheffrey AMC wouldn't have changed the game IMO, especially if he was our main threat which was down the left.

We played badly today, we couldn't get our passing game going, which left McG, Barton and others, isolated. Just no one would bother criticising McG would they?

 

[stupot07]

The difference in footballing ability between Barca and Stoke is much much bigger than ours against PNE, so in a way your argument is also flawed.

But then again Barca's ability is much better than Celtic's and what was the outcome of their last match?

 

[covcity4life]

That's football. Only thing all sides must be able to agree on.

Could be different in the jpt

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The difference in footballing ability between Barca and Stoke is much much bigger than ours against PNE, so in a way your argument is also flawed.

But then again Barca's ability is much better than Celtic's and what was the outcome of their last match?

But Stoke are A LOT more physical than PNE and BARCA, so my point was because Stoke are much more physical than Barca, do they not start Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Sanchez, Alba (you know what I'm getting at) because they can't cope with Stoke? No, you start them because they are better footballers and your game plan would be to pass the ball around them.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I never said that, what I said was: Ibba is a top 3 striker, he is complete a striker so needs to be good at heading! You have completely misunderstood, and may I ask, where did that come from?

On your logic then, would Barcelona not suit Stoke? Because Stoke our physical and Barca are not, no! Barcelona would pass the ball around Stoke and if we did that today, Barton would've chipped in. Your point here is flawed.

They competed better? I remember the two headers I was on about (down the right, so RB and RM) their player had a free header because no one competed, also, they still lost out in the air, that is the point, and that is the problem.

You have your opinions on Barton, but playing McSheffrey AMC wouldn't have changed the game IMO, especially if he was our main threat which was down the left.

We played badly today, we couldn't get our passing game going, which left McG, Barton and others, isolated. Just no one would bother criticising McG would they?

And Barton is a midfielder who needs to compete physically but can't, you used Bartons perceived skill as an excuse that he doesn't need to be physical or be good at heading. I used Ibrahimovic as an example of a skillful player who can also compete physically. Bartons lack of physicality and heading is a major flaw in his game which was my initial point I was trying to make, there is no getting around it

Second point, The gap in quality would ultimately prove too great to be countered just by Stoke being more physical. The same quality gap is not present between Coventry and Preston that we could just pop it around and play lovely 1 touch football around them. If we had been given more space to play it then yes Barton could have and likely would have contributed more but we were not allowed too and we are not good enough to play it around them when they pressured us so much. Tbf I though they would tire and we could pop it around the pitch later on in the match but they didn't, they are obviously a very fit side

Third point, I'm not saying they are amazing in the air, in fact most of them are poor but Barton is just an embarrassment aerially. I remember him making one header today, it was a free header with no one with in 5 metres about 10 yards out of the Preston box. It had came from relatively high height, he completely misjudged the flight of the ball and had to back track 4 or 5 paces. He then just allowed the ball to hit him in the head almost concussing himself in the process and the ball dropped in front of him about 5 yards to nobody

Fourth point, possibly or possibly not. No one can say for sure

5th point, I have said in another thread that was Mcgoldricks worse performance by far since he joined. Then again I guess you are given more room for error by fans when you have scored 17 goals and been brilliant since joining, seems reasonable

 

[stupot07]

But Stoke are A LOT more physical than PNE and BARCA, so my point was because Stoke are much more physical than Barca, do they not start Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Sanchez, Alba (you know what I'm getting at) because they can't cope with Stoke? No, you start them because they are better footballers and your game plan would be to pass the ball around them.

But they are Barca's regular starters who command a starting berth week in week out because they consistently play well and affect games.

Barton isn't good enough to command a place in the starting line up week in week out, and has only produced in sporadic bursts, he has not been a consistent performer.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

And Barton is a midfielder who needs to compete physically but can't, you used Bartons perceived skill as an excuse that he doesn't need to be physical or be good at heading. I used Ibrahimovic as an example of a skillful player who can also compete physically. Bartons lack of physicality and heading is a major flaw in his game which was my initial point I was trying to make, there is no getting around it

Second point, The gap in quality would ultimately prove too great to be countered just by Stoke being more physical. The same quality gap is not present between Coventry and Preston that we could just pop it around and play lovely 1 touch football around them. If we had been given more space to play it then yes Barton could have and likely would have contributed more but we were not allowed too and we are not good enough to play it around them when they pressured us so much. Tbf I though they would tire and we could pop it around the pitch later on in the match but they didn't, they are obviously a very fit side

Third point, I'm not saying they are amazing in the air, in fact most of them are poor but Barton is just an embarrassment aerially. I remember him making one header today, it was a free header with no one with in 5 metres about 10 yards out of the Preston box. It had came from relatively high height, he completely misjudged the flight of the ball and had to back track 4 or 5 paces. He then just allowed the ball to hit him in the head almost concussing himself in the process and the ball dropped in front of him about 5 yards to nobody

Fourth point, possibly or possibly not. No one can say for sure

5th point, I have said in another thread that was Mcgoldricks worse performance by far since he joined. Then again I guess you are given more room for error by fans when you have scored 17 goals and been brilliant since joining, seems reasonable

But comparing Ibba to Barton is a no-no, one is a striker, strikers have to better at headers than midfield, because they have to be able to score headed goals. Is Xavi, or Iniesta, Mata, Santi Carzorla, Wilshere need to be good in the air? Not really, because they are able to pass the ball around, condense their skill to L1 standard we have something like a Barton, his game means he doesn't necessarily have to be able to compete physically.

The point is, Stoke and Barca are polar opposites, hence why I used them, I couldn't think of a better example, but Barca wouldn't drop their less physical players to match Stoke, so why should we do the same with PNE, we concentrate on our game plan, which if we had performed well, we would've won and Barton would've done well - I'm sure of it.

They still lost out, that is all that matters really, Barton may have been unable to compete, but Moussa on few occassions didn't compete.

I agree with point 4, I think it is unlikely though

We can't have double standards, I can't remember McG winning a hoofball header today, nor McSheff, nor Moussa, only Baker. McG has been awesome for us, if I could have 1 Christmas present, it would be for him to join CCFC - seriously - but we can't ignore it when he plays badly.

 

[stupot07]

Is Xavi, or Iniesta, Mata, Santi Carzorla, Wilshere need to be good in the air? Not really, because they are able to pass the ball around, condense their skill to L1 standard we have something like a Barton

I'm sorry Taylor but I have just fell off the sofa laughing......

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

But comparing Ibba to Barton is a no-no, one is a striker, strikers have to better at headers than midfield, because they have to be able to score headed goals. Is Xavi, or Iniesta, Mata, Santi Carzorla, Wilshere need to be good in the air? Not really, because they are able to pass the ball around, condense their skill to L1 standard we have something like a Barton, his game means he doesn't necessarily have to be able to compete physically.

The point is, Stoke and Barca are polar opposites, hence why I used them, I couldn't think of a better example, but Barca wouldn't drop their less physical players to match Stoke, so why should we do the same with PNE, we concentrate on our game plan, which if we had performed well, we would've won and Barton would've done well - I'm sure of it.

They still lost out, that is all that matters really, Barton may have been unable to compete, but Moussa on few occassions didn't compete.

I agree with point 4, I think it is unlikely though

We can't have double standards, I can't remember McG winning a hoofball header today, nor McSheff, nor Moussa, only Baker. McG has been awesome for us, if I could have 1 Christmas present, it would be for him to join CCFC - seriously - but we can't ignore it when he plays badly.

Point 1 obviously Barton is nowhere as good as them that he can rely on skill alone

Point 2 No they wouldn't because the Barcelona players are light years ahead of the Stoke players, the Coventry players are not light years ahead of the Preston players so the physicality and fitness of one team can make a much greater impact on the match than in your example

Point 3 I just said didn't I that most of them are poor at heading but Barton imo is the worse culprit

Point 4 I've already said Mcgoldrick was very poor today but past performances would indicate it is a blip opposed to the norm, Barton gets more criticism because we have seen these types of performances from him before

Lets just agree I am right and move on

 

[covcity4life]

I'm sorry Taylor but I have just fell off the sofa laughing......

Why? He's spot on

If you are good technically why play a physical game?

Only a chav would say physical football beats technical football everytime

 

[stupot07]

Why? He's spot on

If you are good technically why play a physical game?

Only a chav would say physical football beats technical football everytime

i'm sure you know plenty of chavs, so I'll take your word for it.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Point 1 obviously Barton is nowhere as good as them that he can rely on skill alone

Point 2 No they wouldn't because the Barcelona players are light years ahead of the Stoke players, the Coventry players are not light years ahead of the Preston players so the physicality and fitness of one team can make a much greater impact on the match than in your example

Point 3 I just said didn't I that most of them are poor at heading but Barton imo is the worse culprit

Point 4 I've already said Mcgoldrick was very poor today but past performances would indicate it is a blip opposed to the norm, Barton gets more criticism because we have seen these types of performances from him before

Lets just agree I am right and move on

I said condense to L1 standard, which he is, he's a good player who can score goals.

But they are polar opposits, you saying Barton can't play, who is probably far more superior technically than their CMs, can't play v PNE because he isn't physical enough is like dropping Xavi v Stoke because he isn't physical enough. Don't like it? Tough.

You can say he's the 'worst' culprit but that doesn't detract from the fact, they still lost out as well as Barton.

Fair enough for McG, as for Barton, under MR he has been revitalised at AMC, putting in good kameo performances v Hartlepool and Colchester as well as playing very well v Donny, proving that he is good enough to start. He and the team played well below par and it's unfair one player is facing criticism, I think for some, their dislike of Fleck and Barton comes down to their anti Thorn agenda IMO. (Not many, and not necessarily aimed at you).

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I said condense to L1 standard, which he is, he's a good player who can score goals.

But they are polar opposits, you saying Barton can't play, who is probably far more superior technically than their CMs, can't play v PNE because he isn't physical enough is like dropping Xavi v Stoke because he isn't physical enough. Don't like it? Tough.

You can say he's the 'worst' culprit but that doesn't detract from the fact, they still lost out as well as Barton.

Fair enough for McG, as for Barton, under MR he has been revitalised at AMC, putting in good kameo performances v Hartlepool and Colchester as well as playing very well v Donny, proving that he is good enough to start. He and the team played well below par and it's unfair one player is facing criticism, I think for some, their dislike of Fleck and Barton comes down to their anti Thorn agenda IMO. (Not many, and not necessarily aimed at you).

Yea but that is all I am trying to say, Barton and the team have played well against teams that have tried to sit off us and soak up the pressure.

I think it was more Preston didn't allow us to play the passing game than us playing the passing game poorly today. I think Barton does have qualities but today was a game where he couldn't and wasn't allowed to show any of them, something that Robins should have predicted as he knows how Preston will try to break up the play and disrupt the flow of the game

I just don't think it was the right game for him today imo but you obviously disagree

I guess he comes under more criticism and his performances scrutinised more because he was replacing our 2nd best player this season in Baker so was the talking point in terms of selection, so if he under performs obviously people are going to say Baker should have played and point out why and also because he put in some poor performances in early games of the season

Just to clarify for all I definitely wasn't anti Thorn as many would tell you, I just call it as I see it

 

[wingy]

Baker > Barton, but Barton > McSheffrey.

Baker Barton Moussa

yeah cos sheff costs more!!:claping hands: