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Midlands Today Last Night (4 Viewers)

  • Thread starter torchomatic
  • Start date Jan 17, 2013
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lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #176
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Where you're doing yourself no favours here Grendel is to incessantly sneer at other income streams. ACL claim they need no other income, and could survive without the football club. OSB produces figures, extrapolated from filed accounts that seem to back up this claimed viability.

Any additional income, liberated from ACL being freed from the football club's absence; would purely be icing in the cake.

Or maybe you disagree with both OSB and ACL's board?
Click to expand...

The council don't think it's viable without the football club, makes you wonder why they risked £15million in shoring it up.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #177
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Where you're doing yourself no favours here Grendel is to incessantly sneer at other income streams. ACL claim they need no other income, and could survive without the football club. OSB produces figures, extrapolated from filed accounts that seem to back up this claimed viability.

Any additional income, liberated from ACL being freed from the football club's absence; would purely be icing in the cake.

Or maybe you disagree with both OSB and ACL's board?
Click to expand...

Are Northampton rugby club coming to town? Thought not. I know I am right when simple folk like Dagdad take the other side.
 

BackRoomRummermill

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #178
lordsummerisle said:
The council don't think it's viable without the football club, makes you wonder why they risked £15million in shoring it up.
Click to expand...

They risked 15M of tax payers money to shore it up.
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #179
BackRoomRummermill said:
They risked 15M of tax payers money to shore it up.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just said that.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #180
Oh, they won't be happy. I used the "shore up" phrase yesterday and was pulled up about it.

lordsummerisle said:
Yeah, I just said that.
Click to expand...
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #181
BackRoomRummermill said:
They risked 15M of tax payers money to shore it up.
Click to expand...

No they didn't. It is a debt secured against the Arena..
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #182
Is that the arena which would almost certainly lose it's sponsorship if the football club were kicked out? The arena which would be best known for plumbing and carp exhibitions?

This just in from Coun. Mutton "Crikey".

Jack Griffin said:
No they didn't. It is a debt secured against the Arena..
Click to expand...
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #183
Yes, even that is worth significantly more than £14M.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #184
Grendel said:
Are Northampton rugby club coming to town? Thought not. I know I am right when simple folk like Dagdad take the other side.
Click to expand...

And so you prove my point. Don't have the wherewithal to pick holes in OSB's figures, and therefore simply sneer at people. As stated before, it does you no favours
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #185
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
And so you prove my point. Don't have the wherewithal to pick holes in OSB's figures, and therefore simply sneer at people. As stated before, it does you no favours
Click to expand...

You would have thought that the council would have far more detailed figures to peruse than the ones OSB quotes, and they don't think it's viable without the football club.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #186
lordsummerisle said:
The council don't think it's viable without the football club, makes you wonder why they risked £15million in shoring it up.
Click to expand...

I've already answered this one. Try reading back
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #187
lordsummerisle said:
You would have thought that the council would have far more detailed figures to peruse than the ones OSB quotes, and they don't think it's viable without the football club.
Click to expand...

Where gave they stated that? From a financial perspective?
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #188
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Where gave they stated that? From a financial perspective?
Click to expand...

Try reading back.
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #189
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Where you're doing yourself no favours here Grendel is to incessantly sneer at other income streams. ACL claim they need no other income, and could survive without the football club. OSB produces figures, extrapolated from filed accounts that seem to back up this claimed viability.

Any additional income, liberated from ACL being freed from the football club's absence; would purely be icing in the cake.

Or maybe you disagree with both OSB and ACL's board?
Click to expand...

What do you expect Grendel to do MMM when he is in essence being called an idiot, a muppet and a strange case, he is hardly going to shower these fools with flowers is he?

Grendel and Torch have an opinion and I would have to say it's my opinion as well
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #190
RoboCCFC90 said:
What do you expect Grendel to do MMM when he is in essence being called an idiot, a muppet and a strange case, he is hardly going to shower these fools with flowers is he?

Grendel and Torch have an opinion and I would have to say it's my opinion as well
Click to expand...

Look back. He actually uses the words 'idiot' and 'moronic' in an offering. As such, he's ever liable to get a curt response from others.

And then goes on to tell OSB he doesn't feel comfortable with looking at figures on a thread that's about viability. If you don't understand, don't comment. It's like Barry Chuckle speaking at a G8 summit
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #191
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Look back. He actually uses the words 'idiot' and 'moronic' in an offering. As such, he's ever liable to get a curt response from others.

And then goes on to tell OSB he doesn't feel comfortable with looking at figures on a thread that's about viability. If you don't understand, don't comment. It's like Barry Chuckle speaking at a G8 summit
Click to expand...

Or indeed you addressing the same summit. When are the Saints coming to town?
 
R

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #192
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Look back. He actually uses the words 'idiot' and 'moronic' in an offering. As such, he's ever liable to get a curt response from others.

And then goes on to tell OSB he doesn't feel comfortable with looking at figures on a thread that's about viability. If you don't understand, don't comment. It's like Barry Chuckle speaking at a G8 summit
Click to expand...

See more insults.. What is the point? I do see what OSB says and I am sure OSB would suggest that even his figures are not taken from ACL's accounts or he could settle this debate either way..

And before you start another argument you can't finish Paul is the better of the two not Barry!!!!
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #193
RoboCCFC90 said:
See more insults.. What is the point? I do see what OSB says and I am sure OSB would suggest that even his figures are not taken from ACL's accounts or he could settle this debate either way..

And before you start another argument you can't finish Paul is the better of the two not Barry!!!!
Click to expand...

They are taken from ACL's last published accounts? It is a public company you can download them from companies house website.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #194
Trouble is we dont actually have the report itself that was presented to the council do we ........ we dont actually know the context of what was said only a well placed news bite in the CT.

“The CCFC rent is currently criticial to ACL's viability." it could have gone on to say later that if ACL were able to reduce loan costs and overheads based on a agreement of the council then that would safeguard it. We do not actually know. "Currently" could refer to the situation before the meeting, not the situation of a reduced cost base. Can you trust a CT report not to have an angle?. Can you trust the CT not to edit a quote to sensationalise a story ?

There must have been a very persuasive argument in the rest of the report to make the councillors vote unanimously to accept the proposal the report made.

we dont, as usual know, what was actually said, when and by who or even the full details

Those arguing viability isnt possible without CCFC may end up right ........... right now I do not happen to believe they are right. It is just opinions. Dont think you can hang your hat on that quote. All we have is opinions that differ

Right now what is important to both ACL and CCFC is that the two sides agree a viable rent and stabilise the club and stadium. The rest is pretty much irrelevant
 
Last edited: Jan 18, 2013

BackRoomRummermill

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #195
hallelujah
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #196
As I read the article in the CT the council officers statement was given to Councillors before the vote on the financial restructuring so before the lower loan payments CCFC rent was critical now the lower payments are "alleviating ACL’s dependency on rent from Sky Blues"

So in summary before restructuring CCFC rent was critical now it isn't.
 

BackRoomRummermill

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #197
Thats a very bold summary you have put there
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #198
BackRoomRummermill said:
hallelujah
Click to expand...

still think you are wrong chap in thinking ACL cant be successful without CCFC ....... dont get too excited. But on that we will have to differ.

As for enlightenment ...... I give my opinion on here like anyone else....... what I claim as fact are published details. Wasn't me claiming opinion as "without doubt":thinking about:
 

ashbyjan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #199
Just how I read the article and not just the single line.

As for poor old Robinson maybe he can find another rich Belgian widow to befriend who will give him the money
 

BackRoomRummermill

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #200
Can you provide the reference for all your figures ........... i.e from the chief finance at Arena Coventry Ltd the latest finance state and also the evidance from the the Coventry council commercial office?

I see where you say Cov account for a measly 2.4 % of the turnover , can you provide the other 97.6 % income stream where its coming from. Also can you provide the Operating overhead cost of operating ACL and the stadium?

Sounds like you have what I have been looking for if you have ................

Other wise its all 'pie in the sky'

The council tax payers from the City Of Coventry need to and should know
 
Last edited: Jan 18, 2013

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #201
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
It's like Barry Chuckle speaking at a G8 summit
Click to expand...

Dont be too hard on yourself MMM, I think you are a bit higher than that, more on the level of Orville, with your constant referalls to OSB's posts he must be your Keith Harris.
 
Last edited: Jan 18, 2013

Moff

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #202
Jack Griffin said:
No they didn't. It is a debt secured against the Arena..
Click to expand...

What secured against the Arena that had to be bailed out due to its debt to Yorkshire Bank...I take it we are talking about the same Arena here?
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #203
Moff said:
What secured against the Arena that had to be bailed out due to its debt to Yorkshire Bank...I take it we are talking about the same Arena here?
Click to expand...

The arrangement constitutes a restructuring of debts to a more favourable position, just a common sense thing to do in the circumstance.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #204
Jack Griffin said:
The arrangement constitutes a restructuring of debts to a more favourable position, just a common sense thing to do in the circumstance.
Click to expand...

In other words ACL could not afford the mortgage without a bail our (sorry "restructuring")
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #205
How it going duffs,long time no row lol. Just having a few beers and watching your favourite canadian band.
 

Sky Blues

Active Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #206
Grendel said:
In other words ACL could not afford the mortgage without a bail our (sorry "restructuring")
Click to expand...

In other words ACL maybe couldn't afford to offer a rent deal lower than £400,000 before?
 

BackRoomRummermill

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #207
I see the debate has moved to the Geoffrey Robinson thread, when you analyze what has been said in this thread I am very surprised , I have no doubt ACL are playing to peoples emotions.

There is a far bigger picture and if you care about CCFC which I suspect you all do as your on the Forum, the likes of SISU and ACL are just passing phases. ( a bit like the big T kit of TALBOT , remember that )

Lets get CCFC back to the Top Flight where they belong.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #208
Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
And so you prove my point. Don't have the wherewithal to pick holes in OSB's figures, and therefore simply sneer at people. As stated before, it does you no favours
Click to expand...

Do favours with who. Unlike you I dont particluar care who likes my views and who doesn't.

The figures quoted make some assumptions and ultimately prove there is no viability unless the Arena company can secure additional reveue from other sources. People have made very simplistic assumptions that other business can be sourced. No such venue like this exists without a permenant residence. From a facility planning perspective you would never develop a venue such as this so near an already established business.

We know nothing about ACL staff and if they would need to employ additional senior staff to secure and manage such projects (at significant cost). Having a permenant residence is important from a marketing and brand identity perspective and the main sponsor exisits because of the club.

You made some silly assertion we could attract Northampton - strange you have now gone very silent.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #209
MichaelCCFC said:
Grendel, amidst so many posts you might have missed ny question to you - I've said earlier in this thread that the acl/council position is easy to understand but I don't see what sisu do next. What's your view?
Click to expand...

Who knows? The fact they are still signing players means they are unlikely to fold.

Hopefully now the council have effectively subsidised the management company the rent can be set at £200k a year and as ACL have had the debt restructured so can the clubs debt. Personally I would hold out until the debt is wiped out.
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 18, 2013
  • #210
ashbyjan said:
As I read the article in the CT the council officers statement was given to Councillors before the vote on the financial restructuring so before the lower loan payments CCFC rent was critical now the lower payments are "alleviating ACL’s dependency on rent from Sky Blues"

So in summary before restructuring CCFC rent was critical now it isn't.
Click to expand...

Is that a quote from the report, or is it your own opinion put into quotes to make it appear that it is a quote from the report?

If the latter, at least ACL don't have to pay money for spin doctors, as there seem to be plenty willing to do it for nothing.
 
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