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rob9872

Well-Known Member
In three years we’ve spectacularly failed to replicate 40 EU free trade deals. However long those promoting a WTO brexit claim it will take will be an out and out lie when you compare it to the reality of doing a trade deal.
Surely that was down to personnel though and the fact that nobody once to make things easy at present. When we're actually out there will be a greater appetite and equally I'm certain it doesn't need to be such a convoluted process that takes a inordinate amount of time.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Surely that was down to personnel though and the fact that nobody once to make things easy at present. When we're actually out there will be a greater appetite and equally I'm certain it doesn't need to be such a convoluted process that takes a inordinate amount of time.

It’s replicating existing trade deals. It doesn’t get any less convoluted than that. The personnel involved are of the same mentality as those trying to sell a WTO brexit. Take them serious at your peril.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
It’s replicating existing trade deals. It doesn’t get any less convoluted than that. The personnel involved are of the same mentality as those trying to sell a WTO brexit. Take them serious at your peril.

the problem as I see it is how can we replicate the trade deals we have through the EU?
They can offer access to a market of 450 million people we can offer access to a market of 60 million, why would anyone give us the same terms?
I'd imagine it's a lot more nuanced than that as well so I'm very sceptical of these claims that existing deals can be copied and pasted.
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
pretty certain we will crash out now - no deal - Fuckem they will soon come running back
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
pretty certain we will crash out now - no deal - Fuckem they will soon come running back

Believe it or not but the world doesn’t revolve around the UK. If you’re clinging onto that belief that you’re going to end up disappointed, it’s the same sort of rhetoric as we buy French cheese and Italian wine so we’ll get whatever we want.
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
Yes we'll end up cap in hand to the EU in a few years having spunked all of our political capital up the wall

Sounds like every time a PM went to Brussels to negotiate a deal on behalf of the uk
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
Just to be clear I think we will leave with no deal and the Europeans will want us back !
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
In three years we’ve spectacularly failed to replicate 40 EU free trade deals. However long those promoting a WTO brexit claim it will take will be an out and out lie when you compare it to the reality of doing a trade deal.
Grendel says it will be fine so that’s good enough for me
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
They'll want us back. But they won't offer us the moon on a stick to male it happen.

We're not the big deal we think we are.
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought UK paid the most per head into the EU - not sure any of the new leaders ( whoever) will get a majority when the deal has to be ratified in our parliament hence the only route will be no deal - it’s my opinion there are others
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought UK paid the most per head into the EU - not sure any of the new leaders ( whoever) will get a majority when the deal has to be ratified in our parliament hence the only route will be no deal - it’s my opinion there are others

Think the net contribution is around 9 billion, it's not insignificant but I don't think not receiving it will bring the EU down despite what people say.
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
Think the net contribution is around 9 billion, it's not insignificant but I don't think not receiving it will bring the EU down despite what people say.
Only that the trade between us I imagine is quite significant - imagine the roads without Audi and Renault drivers :)
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Only that the trade between us I imagine is quite significant - imagine the roads without Audi and Renault drivers :)

But again, WTO estimates 2.7 million job losses in the EU, but that's shared between 27 countries.
They estimate 1.5 in the UK so that's going to hit us harder. That's based on a 'hard' Brexit which I Thu k is the only way we can leave now.
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
Yes there will be
Some consolidation but I think some investment has been stifled by indecision and once a path has been decided in I think this will start again - I hope !
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
But again, WTO estimates 2.7 million job losses in the EU, but that's shared between 27 countries.
They estimate 1.5 in the UK so that's going to hit us harder. That's based on a 'hard' Brexit which I Thu k is the only way we can leave now.
Grendel will describe wto as bollox
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
pretty certain we will crash out now - no deal - Fuckem they will soon come running back

You appear to be under the same illusion as JRM and his ERG. Still under this impression of Empire and that we say something and the rest of Europe/the world does what we want. They don't. It's the same way Trump/the US thinks.

Europe will of course want us back - but they're not just going to do it on whatever terms suits us. They know they've got major leverage in terms of markets and have shown throughout the negotiations that they're holding a lot of the cards whereas we seem to be dealing on the premise that we'll get one on the turn.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
I still don't understand why Bojo didn't go for it after Cameron resigned (Brexit vote), Leave won, it was perfect him to put his name forward in the Leader contest, surely?
So why now?

He did. Then Gove (his major backer) stabbed him in the back saying he didn't believe he could do it and ran himself (only to pull out days later). This made Boris look silly and he withdrew. Boris wasn't really a Leaver (beforehand he quite often, in muted terms, was in favour of the EU) - he was always just going to take the opposite position to Cameron so if Cameron lost it'd trigger a leadership election (which it did). Boris doesn't give a fuck about people, the country or even the Conservatives really - it's all about his own personal ambition and what will help him achieve it. If someone said he'd never be PM as a Tory but was guaranteed the job under Labour I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him switch at the drop of a hat.

It was probably best for him long-term and anyone else and anyone with half an ounce of common sense wouldn't have gone near the job at that point - there was no way to win and getting a deal would be nigh impossible because everyone would have a reason to not like the deal put forward. No-one was going to compromise because by then you've just ended up with something similar to what you already had and made the entire thing pointless.

That's why Cameron walked away - he knew it was a hiding to nothing and whatever stick he got historically for calling the referendum and then walking away would be way better than sticking around and being in charge of the inevitable shitstorm to follow. Personally I'd love for Farage be asked to take over just so he can be proven to be the ignoramus he clearly is, but after that Mogg for the wake up call he'd get on how the world operates now. I don't want to give Boris the satisfaction of the prestige but at least it'd pierce that likeable posh idiot persona people fall for.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
One thing I've never got is why May leaves the dinner's at a certain point. As we're still members of the EU until such point as we actually leave I would refuse to leave the room.

Maggie, love her or hate her (mainly the latter), she wouldn't be pushed around like that. I remember the stories about when we got the rebate about how she refused to let meetings be finished until she got what she wanted. I don't think we've got anyone like that in any of the parties now to really fight our corner.
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
I agree Maggie would have had none of this glad handing I have said this before in the eu mega thread - not sure I am under an empire like expectation but just the cold hard facts around the current status - I did clearly say it was my opinion - I still believe UK has a lot to offer independently although I can understand a younger persons view that making it harder to move around might cramp the possibilities for some - we are no doubt in a shitstorm and Mays hi lights were short on achievement but she had her hands full of this particular shitstorm - she made a big mistake calling an election where Corbyn just sucked the youth in ! So may the mayhem commence for the next episode PUSB somewhere which is my biggest concern at the mo !
 

mark82

Moderator
You appear to be under the same illusion as JRM and his ERG. Still under this impression of Empire and that we say something and the rest of Europe/the world does what we want. They don't. It's the same way Trump/the US thinks.

Europe will of course want us back - but they're not just going to do it on whatever terms suits us. They know they've got major leverage in terms of markets and have shown throughout the negotiations that they're holding a lot of the cards whereas we seem to be dealing on the premise that we'll get one on the turn.

Jacob Rees-Mogg stands to make a significant sum from the devaluation of the pound, so I think we can probably discount anything he has to say on the matter.
 

vow

Well-Known Member
He did. Then Gove (his major backer) stabbed him in the back saying he didn't believe he could do it and ran himself (only to pull out days later). This made Boris look silly and he withdrew. Boris wasn't really a Leaver (beforehand he quite often, in muted terms, was in favour of the EU) - he was always just going to take the opposite position to Cameron so if Cameron lost it'd trigger a leadership election (which it did). Boris doesn't give a fuck about people, the country or even the Conservatives really - it's all about his own personal ambition and what will help him achieve it. If someone said he'd never be PM as a Tory but was guaranteed the job under Labour I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him switch at the drop of a hat.

It was probably best for him long-term and anyone else and anyone with half an ounce of common sense wouldn't have gone near the job at that point - there was no way to win and getting a deal would be nigh impossible because everyone would have a reason to not like the deal put forward. No-one was going to compromise because by then you've just ended up with something similar to what you already had and made the entire thing pointless.

That's why Cameron walked away - he knew it was a hiding to nothing and whatever stick he got historically for calling the referendum and then walking away would be way better than sticking around and being in charge of the inevitable shitstorm to follow. Personally I'd love for Farage be asked to take over just so he can be proven to be the ignoramus he clearly is, but after that Mogg for the wake up call he'd get on how the world operates now. I don't want to give Boris the satisfaction of the prestige but at least it'd pierce that likeable posh idiot persona people fall for.
I believe most politicians for a while now have been solely career MP's sadly.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Jacob Rees-Mogg stands to make a significant sum from the devaluation of the pound, so I think we can probably discount anything he has to say on the matter.

I doubt he does and anyway it saved JLR from oblivion
 

AVWskyblue

Well-Known Member
Gone at last
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Sent from my Alba7Nou using Tapatalk
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Fake news???

Again you just believe the headline

The operating loss was £358 m - the £3 billion isn’t an operating loss it’s a strategic decision to write down over inflated asset valuations which will in future give a better reflection of the financial position

Additionally there was an exceptional item of over £100m for redundancy funding

So yes it’s fake news
 

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
I can see stalemate for this leadership contest, stalemate in Brexit talks and stalemate in a General Election. The majority of the public have lost all faith in these buffoons, the Tories are starting to resemble the spitting image Tories of the 80's and 90's, Labour is led by a traitor and his sidekicks are all extremist mentalists and there is basically no credible challenge to the main two parties outside of Leave voters wanting Brexit to be completed through Farage.........which of course will be driven to stalemate by the philandering of the EU negotiators. Great innit !
 

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