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Lucy Letby (2 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Saddlebrains
  • Start date Nov 12, 2020
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #141
SlowerThanPlatt said:
Definitely a Cluster B personality disorder at play. She was said to be infatuated with a much older male doctor and was harming babies to get closer to him

The doctor gave evidence against her at trial but has anonymity
Click to expand...
It sounds like she was a strangely mollycoddled child herself, I mean her Dad turned up at her disciplinary FFS. The Countess Trust completely lost the plot here and the senior accountable people should all be removed from post. It's a huge failure of safeguarding.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: hamertime

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #142
SlowerThanPlatt said:
Definitely a Cluster B personality disorder at play. She was said to be infatuated with a much older male doctor and was harming babies to get closer to him

The doctor gave evidence against her at trial but has anonymity
Click to expand...
It sounds like she was a strangely mollycoddled child herself, I mean her Dad turned up at her disciplinary FFS. The Countess Trust completely lost the plot here and the senior accountable people should all be removed from post. It's a huge failure of safeguarding.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #143
fernando "2 times" partridge.....

 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman, Deleted member 5849, clint van damme and 1 other person

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #144
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
fernando "2 times" partridge.....

Click to expand...
Hey de fuckin WiFi in this joint whaddayaknow

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: clint van damme
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #145
Grendel said:
Strangely enough I don’t see the Wild West of El Salvador as especially relevant
Click to expand...
Your response to Pete suggested to me, maybe incorrectly, that you don't support the sort of liberal approaches successful adopted in Norway and that you feel a more repressive/punitive approach can be more successful. El Salvador is an extreme example of this which in terms of crime reduction has been a outstandingly successful. It has gone from having the highest homicide rate in the world to becoming a relatively safe country in a short period and by far the safest in the region. As a result the President is genuinely one of the world's most popular leaders.

This has been achieved through a highly punitive approach and at the expense of peoples' human rights. Many people have been imprisoned just on suspicion of being involved in criminality, especially the drug trade.

For the avoidance of doubt I don't support such an approach but it is an interesting example. Most people in El Salvador say they are content to have lost their rights and not overly concerned that innocent people are incarcerated as they now feel safe going about their daily lives.

Of course, the sort of things Norway are doing are right in my view but it is easy to understand why the El Salvador approach has popular support at least in their context.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #146
Deleted member 9744 said:
Your response to Pete suggested to me, maybe incorrectly, that you don't support the sort of liberal approaches successful adopted in Norway and that you feel a more repressive/punitive approach can be more successful. El Salvador is an extreme example of this which in terms of crime reduction has been a outstandingly successful. It has gone from having the highest homicide rate in the world to becoming a relatively safe country in a short period and by far the safest in the region. As a result the President is genuinely one of the world's most popular leaders.

This has been achieved through a highly punitive approach and at the expense of peoples' human rights. Many people have been imprisoned just on suspicion of being involved in criminality, especially the drug trade.

For the avoidance of doubt I don't support such an approach but it is an interesting example. Most people in El Salvador say they are content to have lost their rights and not overly concerned that innocent people are incarcerated as they now feel safe going about their daily lives.

Of course, the sort of things Norway are doing are right in my view but it is easy to understand why the El Salvador approach has popular support at least in their context.
Click to expand...

My reference point actually was Japan which does have the death penalty and a very low rate of homocide

Also other countries in the Scandi area are having significant escalation of issues are they not?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #147
fernandopartridge said:
The answer is to stop imprisoning people for relatively petty crimes not to release very dangerous people

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
One answer yep
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #148
Grendel said:
My reference point actually was Japan which does have the death penalty and a very low rate of homocide

Also other countries in the Scandi area are having significant escalation of issues are they not?
Click to expand...

I'd wager if you removed the death penalty in Japan you wouldn't see an increase in homicides.

The states in the US that execute the most people generally have higher murder rates.

And there are other Asian countries with no death penalty that also have very low homicide rates, (though I think Japan's is the lowest in the world).

I think culture plays a massive part.
 

oakey

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #149
All she has left is her secret. Why she did it. She can maintain power over others if they seek answers from her.
So, isolate her with no privileges. Make it clear she can only receive privileges if she comes clean.
Once every six months she is allowed to speak to psychiatrists/detectives to tell all. That's it. If she misses her chance by messing about or playing games straight back in isolation for 6 months.
The only thing she has to offer society is the truth.
We can wait. She can stew.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Earlsdon_Skyblue1 and TomRad85

skybluecam

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #150
oakey said:
All she has left is her secret. Why she did it. She can maintain power over others if they seek answers from her.
So, isolate her with no privileges. Make it clear she can only receive privileges if she comes clean.
Once every six months she is allowed to speak to psychiatrists/detectives to tell all. That's it. If she misses her chance by messing about or playing games straight back in isolation for 6 months.
The only thing she has to offer society is the truth.
We can wait. She can stew.
Click to expand...
6 months of complete isolation would reduce the human brain to mush
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #151
skybluecam said:
6 months of complete isolation would reduce the human brain to mush
Click to expand...

This place can do it in a fortnight.
 
Reactions: Saddlebrains, OffenhamSkyBlue, dutchman and 5 others
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #152
Grendel said:
My reference point actually was Japan which does have the death penalty and a very low rate of homocide

Also other countries in the Scandi area are having significant escalation of issues are they not?
Click to expand...
The death penalty working brilliantly in stopping killings in the US of course.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueCharlie9
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #153
clint van damme said:
This place can do it in a fortnight.
Click to expand...
An afternoon
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #154
Deleted member 9744 said:
The death penalty working brilliantly in stopping killings in the US of course.
Click to expand...

No one says it is or it’s actually a deterrent at all
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #155
Grendel said:
No one says it is or it’s actually a deterrent at all
Click to expand...
Well you literally just linked it with the low homicide rate in Japan.
 
Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2023

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #156
Not so much as a deterrent but the resources wasted on someone like Letby who we could inject an overdose for a fiver is plain to see. Especially if you can see where the saving is directly going, eg in this case to put those additional funds into preventing infant mortality and I doubt you'd have too many against it.
 
Reactions: Saddlebrains

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #157
rob9872 said:
Not so much as a deterrent but the resources wasted on someone like Letby who we could inject an overdose for a fiver is plain to see. Especially if you can see where the saving is directly going, eg in this case to put those additional funds into preventing infant mortality and I doubt you'd have too many against it.
Click to expand...

In the states it costs more to execute someone than imprison them for life.
 
Reactions: shmmeee, Sky Blue Pete and Deleted member 5849

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #158
Deleted member 9744 said:
Well you literally just linked it with the low homicide rate in Japan.
Click to expand...

Well yes as you seemed to imply Norway is a successful indicator - the truth is you can’t correlate can you. Singapore is about the safest place on earth
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #159
Grendel said:
Well yes as you seemed to imply Norway is a successful indicator - the truth is you can’t correlate can you. Singapore is about the safest place on earth
Click to expand...
Before going there I was told by a local to assume there’s an undercover police within view most of the time.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #160
clint van damme said:
In the states it costs more to execute someone than imprison them for life.
Click to expand...
I've just been reading about that. Apparently down to higher legal costs when arguing for the DP and more expensive to house them whilst on death Row (average time 20 years!). It's not so much the cost of the execution as what goes before it. Much easier / cheaper to let other inmates know they're a nonce and turn your back whilst justice is served.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #161
.
rob9872 said:
Not so much as a deterrent but the resources wasted on someone like Letby who we could inject an overdose for a fiver is plain to see. Especially if you can see where the saving is directly going, eg in this case to put those additional funds into preventing infant mortality and I doubt you'd have too many against it.
Click to expand...
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs/summary-of-states-death-penalty
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #162
Just wanted to say thanks to most of you for ensuring that I don’t live in an echo chamber and however hard some of the opinions on here are hard for me to hear and understand they are the opinions of fellow human beings who are part of our society
 
Reactions: OffenhamSkyBlue, Deleted member 9744, Otis and 1 other person
H

hamertime

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #163
Grendel said:
My reference point actually was Japan which does have the death penalty and a very low rate of homocide

Also other countries in the Scandi area are having significant escalation of issues are they not?
Click to expand...
That’s cause half the young male Japanese population are hermits holed up watching a
Computer screen barley able to muster a hard on.
 

Robinshio

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 22, 2023
  • #164
Sick Boy said:
Before going there I was told by a local to assume there’s an undercover police within view most of the time.
Click to expand...
Experienced the same in China
 
O

OffenhamSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2023
  • #165
I was recently watching the C4 documentary where Guy Martin did a trip round Japan, and he says the culture is to obey the law, and has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Fucking weird place though!
 
Reactions: Otis

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2023
  • #166
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It won’t be old age that kills her in prison, that’s for sure. Given what happens to nonces, someone who murdered 7 babies and tried to kill countless more will surely not last long.
Click to expand...

Women’s prison a bit different though. Fewer lifers with nothing to lose and violent inmates in general.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2023
  • #167
shmmeee said:
Women’s prison a bit different though. Fewer lifers with nothing to lose and violent inmates in general.
Click to expand...
Awful places full of many victims of crime and life circumstances. Awful self harm and repeating cycles of behaviour with no way out
Not this particular woman of course
 
Reactions: Otis and shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2023
  • #168
rob9872 said:
Not so much as a deterrent but the resources wasted on someone like Letby who we could inject an overdose for a fiver is plain to see. Especially if you can see where the saving is directly going, eg in this case to put those additional funds into preventing infant mortality and I doubt you'd have too many against it.
Click to expand...

It’s not though. You end up with way more protracted legal cases costing way more than prison. I mean if the alternative is literally death, why would you ever stop appealing with everything you’ve got? And if you did and accepted your death what punishment is that?

It’s blood lust and nothing else. I’ve said in this thread I hope prison dishes out its own justice. But you wouldn’t really want to codify vigilante justice into law (if that even makes sense) and we all know why. There’s no other argument that doesn’t boil down to wanting vengeance. It’s not a deterrent, it doesn’t cost less, it’s virtually impossible to do humanely.
 
Reactions: AOM, SBT, DazzleTommyDazzle and 5 others

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2023
  • #169
Sky Blue Pete said:
Awful places full of many victims of crime and life circumstances. Awful self harm and repeating cycles of behaviour with no way out
Not this particular woman of course
Click to expand...

Certaibly not somewhere I’d wish on anyone! Just saying the situation for this particular type of revenge is a bit different.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2023
  • #170
shmmeee said:
Women’s prison a bit different though. Fewer lifers with nothing to lose and violent inmates in general.
Click to expand...
I was thinking suicide.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2023
  • #171
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I was thinking suicide.
Click to expand...

I had this same thought, but given the post-it notes and seemingly deranged behaviours outside of the murders, it was like she was threatening it regularly but never followed through with it. Suggests to me she's too much of a coward to even take that way out.

- Just for the record I'm not saying that failing to commit suicide is cowardly. I think she's got some serious mental disorders that will cross over with NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). Those people will play victim until the cows come home but when there is any serious threat to them, they'll back down. Suicide included.
 

Robinshio

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2023
  • #172
OffenhamSkyBlue said:
I was recently watching the C4 documentary where Guy Martin did a trip round Japan, and he says the culture is to obey the law, and has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Fucking weird place though!
Click to expand...
A large proportion of men see prostitutes regularly, very 1960s attitude to women - and they are obsessed with cartoons
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2023
  • #173
Robinshio said:
A large proportion of men see prostitutes regularly, very 1960s attitude to women - and they are obsessed with cartoons
Click to expand...
Isn't there a larger proportion of men to women, so not all men would be able to find a monogamous partner even if they all wanted to?

Pretty sure that's the case in China due to the one baby rule, but felt sure it was a similar situation in Japan.

It is very patriarchal still. Until relatively recently families would adopt bright young boys just so they could carry on the 'family' business.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2024
  • #174
Wow - The New Yorker has published a 13,000 word article questioning the conviction, placing the case alongside previous examples of miscarriages of justice in the medical profession. The article isn’t available online in the UK for legal reasons, but is viewable elsewhere.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • May 14, 2024
  • #175
SBT said:
Wow - The New Yorker has published a 13,000 word article questioning the conviction, placing the case alongside previous examples of miscarriages of justice in the medical profession. The article isn’t available online in the UK for legal reasons, but is viewable elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t be surprised
Any link?
 
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