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Looks like its walsall (2 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Noggin
  • Start date Jun 19, 2013
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S

Sba180

Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #36
Noggin said:
Like I said this doesn't guarantee we aren't at the Ricoh but it does Guarantee that the football league have made these fixtures believing that we will be playing in walsall.
Click to expand...
it guarantees nothing. august 3rd comes and we ko at the ricoh and fisher loses face quicker than the A team at a wife swap
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #37
duffer said:
First three fixtures at least, and at least some others after that. I haven't pulled them all apart, that's true enough. Have you?
Click to expand...

yes I put the 2 fixture lists one each side of my screen and looked down comparing everyone before starting the thread.

I didn't compare everyone from last year I just looked until I found a date when both were at home at the same time which proved your post incorrect, that took about 2 seconds.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #38
Noggin said:
is this math correct? normally chance of them being at home when we are on a given saturday 50%, so 0.5. 23 games, 0.5^23 = 0.00000011920928955078125 x 100 =

0.000012%

So nearly 10 million to 1?
Click to expand...

Does it matter?
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #39
DD_Daphne said:
It's a 50/50 chance the computer has thrown our fixtures opposite to Walsall. If you look at every other team who are at home on the opening day of the season, throughout the season they are always at home when we are away and vice versa
Click to expand...

it's a 50% chance per game, not overall. the chance of a 50% event happening 23 times in a row is nearly 10 million to 1.
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #40
SkyblueBazza said:
Does it matter?
Click to expand...

I'm a curious guy who enjoys learning, if I've made a mistake and someone can tell me how to do it better I'd like to know yeah.
 
P

pricey

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #41
Far more likely it's due to policing than a conspiracy just as Reg said. Sorry to shatter some of your dreams....
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #42
RegTheDonk said:
Looks likely, however in the past (because of policing) the 6 clubs in WMP's area would often find their fixtures ensured they didn't clash. We usually were at home the same time as Brum and West Brom, with the other 3 being away.
Click to expand...

yeah it's a good point, birminghams fixtures while still being quite different to ours, are much closer than you'd expect by chance. I still think this is is proof enough though to happily bet your mortgage that this means ccfc have told the football league our planned ground is walsall.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #43
Noggin said:
I'm a curious guy who enjoys learning, if I've made a mistake and someone can tell me how to do it better I'd like to know yeah.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...if you are THAT "curious" maybe you're on the wrong site? :-o
;-)
 
N

njdlawyer

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #44
Presumably therefore the Football League have been aware of and complicit in the Walsall / Sky Blues groundshare proposal for some time ie before the conclusion of the administration "process". This must have been so in order for the fixture computer to avoid clashes

So the FL who are supposedly considering Odious Entertainment as owners have already given de facto approval to their madcap scheme
 
D

DD_Daphne

Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #45
Noggin said:
it's a 50% chance per game, not overall. the chance of a 50% event happening 23 times in a row is nearly 10 million to 1.
Click to expand...

But every team that are at home for the first game are away for the second and this trend continues for all season. For example all season we are always at home when crawley are away.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #46
duffer said:
First three fixtures at least, and at least some others after that. I haven't pulled them all apart, that's true enough. Have you?
Click to expand...

Actually, I stand corrected. Of last year's fixtures for those played on the same day, when Cov were at home, 15 times Walsall were also at home and 7 times they were away.

Apologies.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #47
njdlawyer said:
Presumably therefore the Football League have been aware of and complicit in the Walsall / Sky Blues groundshare proposal for some time ie before the conclusion of the administration "process". This must have been so in order for the fixture computer to avoid clashes

So the FL who are supposedly considering Odious Entertainment as owners have already given de facto approval to their madcap scheme
Click to expand...

I'd wager before we entered Admin,but it doesn't mean it will happen.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #48
pricey said:
Far more likely it's due to policing than a conspiracy just as Reg said. Sorry to shatter some of your dreams....
Click to expand...

THANK YOU Pricey.

Boys, its polcing/safety.

Look at Wolves - apart from when we play them, or either of us play Sheffield United, we our home/away fixtures are identical. What are the odds of that?
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #49
pricey said:
Far more likely it's due to policing than a conspiracy just as Reg said. Sorry to shatter some of your dreams....
Click to expand...

Coventry and walsall were at home at the same times last year on 14 occasions in the league, this year none. He is likely correct that policing plans makes my 10 million to 1 number flawed but it still doesn't change the fact that this result beyond reasonable doubt means the football league have planned for us to be playing in walsall.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #50
Noggin said:
yeah it's a good point, birminghams fixtures while still being quite different to ours, are much closer than you'd expect by chance. I still think this is is proof enough though to happily bet your mortgage that this means ccfc have told the football league our planned ground is walsall.
Click to expand...

Noggin, bearing in mind what Fishers plan is, then yes I agree. But this will be in the mix with the policing plan, to ensure the othe WM teams don't clash too heavily.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #51
DD_Daphne said:
But every team that are at home for the first game are away for the second and this trend continues for all season. For example all season we are always at home when crawley are away.
Click to expand...

So this confirms we will either play our home games at Walsall or Crawley as our fixtures are both at odds of 10,000,000/1
 
D

DD_Daphne

Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #52
Astute said:
So this confirms we will either play our home games at Walsall or Crawley as our fixtures are both at odds of 10,000,000/1
Click to expand...

No!! Look at every team that are at home for the opening game. We will always be playing away when they are at home.
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #53
SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Tbf, technically everything is a 50%, it either happens, or it doesn't
Click to expand...

You must do well at school
 
A

ArchieLittle

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #54
Don't read too deep.
This is always a provisional fixture list, by the time TV rights, local issues and the weather get a look in then it will all change drastically.
 
N

njdlawyer

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #55
I suspect that there is a certain amount of wishful thinking in some of these posts. Looking at it objectively it is difficult to reach any conclusion other than the one that says we are playing at Walsall...

Question:- When (if) we begin the season at their ground and a miracle occurs courtesy of PHIV, Byng / Hoffman / the Saudi Royal Family / The Sultan of Brunei / the Duke of Westminster or whoever, are we allowed to change home ground mid-season?
 
V

valiant15

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #56
Where can you get Crawley tickets from? We haven't even got a ticket office.
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #57
RegTheDonk said:
THANK YOU Pricey.

Boys, its polcing/safety.

Look at Wolves - apart from when we play them, or either of us play Sheffield United, we our home/away fixtures are identical. What are the odds of that?
Click to expand...

They are the same except for the 4 times when they arn't you are correct, it's clear that policing has a significant impact and my 10mill to 1 number was obviously wrong. However they are still exactly opposite and none of the other teams are like this and nore have we been like this in the past.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #58
Noggin said:
Not correct they don't match.
Click to expand...

Noggin's right, I was wrong.

The majority of times last season, our home fixtures clashed.

Of course there is the complication of Wolves this year, and policing issues. Do Wolves/Walsall home fixtures clash?

My gut feel is that this isn't a conspiracy, and it isn't a done deal. But I suppose if SISU have said to the FL there's a strong chance we'll be ground sharing at Walsall, then they'd be daft to disregard it when planning the fixtures.

Doesn't cheer me up any, but I don't think it's all finished yet by a long way.
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #59
DD_Daphne said:
But every team that are at home for the first game are away for the second and this trend continues for all season. For example all season we are always at home when crawley are away.
Click to expand...

Thats not even close to being true, don't people take 30 seconds to check what they are saying before they say it? Its like you looked at 4 games and assumed that meant it was true for the entire season where as if you'd looked slightly further you'd see game 5,6,7,8, and 9 and many many more examples after all prove it wrong.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #60
Actually, what really ticks me off (other than the financial stuff) is when was the last time we finished a season at home? Seems like ages. (I'm probably wrong about this, too).

I think the FL have always secretly hated us. Probably because we played in both the Third Division North and South.
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #61
No no, Tim said it wasn't Walsall - so it isn't Walsall okay the fixtures people (and I think it's people) have just made an amazing home/away coincidence. I've decided to take everything Tim says as the truth, even the stuff that contradicts other stuff he says. :laugh:
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #62
duffer said:
Of course there is the complication of Wolves this year, and policing issues. Do Wolves/Walsall home fixtures clash?
Click to expand...

They are very very similar (opposite) but not exactly opposite. It's clear policing is affecting that alot, they are only at home a couple of times at the same time.
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #63
SkyBlue_Taylor said:
It was a joke, I was deliberately being awkward.
Click to expand...

Sorry, my bad, you put a wink too, it's just I have disagreed with nearly everything you have written over the last few months, so I assumed you were wrong again
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #64
Noggin said:
They are the same except for the 4 times when they arn't you are correct, it's clear that policing has a significant impact and my 10mill to 1 number was obviously wrong. However they are still exactly opposite and none of the other teams are like this and nore have we been like this in the past.
Click to expand...

Noggin, I agree with you re Walsall. I think we're getting all confused with random chance throwing up the fact that Walsall are the opposite to us. Its isn't random, I think that the FL, after consultation with Fisher, have factored in us playing at Walsall. What I'm saying is they will also have to factor in the local policing/safety issues, to ensure there aren't more than 3 local fixtures at any one time. On the few occasions where there are, I suspect some will be moved to a Friday night or Sunday afternoon.

Can you imagine if they allowed us, Wolves, Villa, Blues, and WBA to be at home the same day? The police couldn't cope. I belive teams ARE drawn randomly as to who they play, but weather or not they are at home then must then be looked at by the FL.

I would disagree on none have been like this in the past though - quite often I recall Blues and West Brom shaddowed our home/away games.
 
H

Houdi

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #65
Noggin said:
yeah it's a good point, birminghams fixtures while still being quite different to ours, are much closer than you'd expect by chance. I still think this is is proof enough though to happily bet your mortgage that this means ccfc have told the football league our planned ground is walsall.
Click to expand...
Not according to CWR,who quoted that a league spokesman had told them that CCFC have not yet confirmed a groundshare.If indeed that is true,it implies that the club have not yet got any agreement.However it now puts Walsall in a potentially very strong position to basically give CCFC a take it or leave it offer,knowing the club has now got very limited options.This is the one area where SISU are at the weakest,as they are totally reliant on the goodwill of other clubs.
 
A

antineorevolutionery

Active Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #66
Right...

If the games were drawn AT RANDOM, then 10 million to 1 odds are correct.

However, the way that the fixtures are worked is that teams are paired up so that one other team (in this case Walsall) will not have a single fixture clash all season (i.e. one is home whilst one is away).

Then there is a team that will only clash with us twice all season. Then a team that will clash with us four times. Then a team that clashes on six occasions... and so on and so forth until there is one team that is virtually home when we are all the time.

The league tries to divide this up geographically, so teams near each other are paired up. Problems can arise when teams are in different divisions (e.g. Sheff Wed and Sheff Utd are kept on alternate dates but are in different leagues), and also the issue with police force boundaries (West Midlands police will always keep Villa and Brum apart, and WBA and Wolves where possible. Which two does that leave? Coventry and Walsall).

To summarise, I would have expected Cov and Walsall to be apart for much of the season due to their proximity, but not every game. This makes me think that the club have requested Walsall as the club to never clash with, but this may have been as a contingency a few months ago when this looked like a viable alternative to the Ricoh.

I will repost this article, although I know it has done the rounds a few times, as it does give a greater insight into the intricacies of the English League fixture system:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2009/06/secrets_of_the_fixture_compute.html

This isn't a dig at Noggin btw, as your maths is spot on, but I think there's more to it than you think.
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #67
RegTheDonk said:
Noggin, I agree with you re Walsall. I think we're getting all confused with random chance throwing up the fact that Walsall are the opposite to us. Its isn't random, I think that the FL, after consultation with Fisher, have factored in us playing at Walsall. What I'm saying is they will also have to factor in the local policing/safety issues, to ensure there aren't more than 3 local fixtures at any one time. On the few occasions where there are, I suspect some will be moved to a Friday night or Sunday afternoon.

Can you imagine if they allowed us, Wolves, Villa, Blues, and WBA to be at home the same day? The police couldn't cope. I belive teams ARE drawn randomly as to who they play, but weather or not they are at home then must then be looked at by the FL.

I would disagree on none have been like this in the past though - quite often I recall Blues and West Brom shaddowed our home/away games.
Click to expand...

I agree with all that, I was mistaken just using random chance. Regarding the last line though while I agree that in the past they have been similar , I can't see an example of them being exact before, admittedly not easy to check. 2011 when we were both in the championship Coventry's and Birminghams fixtures were very different, sometimes at home and the same time sometimes not.

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/birmingham-city/2011-2012/results

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/coventry-city/2011-2012/results

unfortunately previous years are much harder to compare than this year, it takes much longer, comparing this years takes seconds.
 
N

Noggin

New Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #68
antineorevolutionery said:
This isn't a dig at Noggin btw, as your maths is spot on, but I think there's more to it than you think.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that very interesting, I had already realised I was being way to simplistic but its good to have it explained like that ty.
 

BrisbaneBronco

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #69
Please Please guys - It ain't Walsall. Fisher said so at forums.
I would only bet on Ricoh or Nene Park
 

ccfcrob

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 19, 2013
  • #70
halftimebovril said:
it guarantees nothing. august 3rd comes and we ko at the ricoh and fisher loses face quicker than the A team at a wife swap
Click to expand...

Best line ever lol
 
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