Leyton Orient council want to help out by giving them £1M ............

hill83

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24 pages.
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2 offers of a fight at the wheatsheaf
 

torchomatic

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And a partridge in a pear tree.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

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Like I've said before, it's a disgrace that CCC are willing to bail out ACL over CCFC. CCC don't have, never have (in my years), cared about the interests of the club.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

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Like I've said before, it's a disgrace that CCC are willing to bail out ACL over CCFC. CCC don't have, never have (in my years), cared about the interests of the club.
How stupid. Let's strat by you telling me who the council - even if they wanted to - should 'support'. CCFC means nothing.

Do you mean CCFC Limited, or CCFC Holdings, or Sky Blues Sports and Leisure, or Sconset, or Arvo Master Fund Limited, or SISU? Have I missed anyone? Can you even tell me what, whom or where this 'CCFC' is?
 

Jim

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Like I've said before, it's a disgrace that CCC are willing to bail out ACL over CCFC. CCC don't have, never have (in my years), cared about the interests of the club.
A disgrace that the 50% shareholders of a company have acted to ensure that it remains a going concern, and also managed to generate additional income for public at the same time?

Sounds perfectly fine to me.
 
J

Jack Griffin

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Like I've said before, it's a disgrace that CCC are willing to bail out ACL over CCFC. CCC don't have, never have (in my years), cared about the interests of the club.
So how did the Arena get built, because the club put hardly any money into the project?

Was it using magic dust or fairy finance.. oh no actually it was partially council funded and in addition to the £10M they put in they also provided a bridging loan to enable the stalled project to go ahead, the the Higgs charity bought out the club's remaining interests in the Arena effectively refunding what little money the club had put in..
 
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RoboCCFC90

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How stupid. Let's strat by you telling me who the council - even if they wanted to - should 'support'. CCFC means nothing.

Do you mean CCFC Limited, or CCFC Holdings, or Sky Blues Sports and Leisure, or Sconset, or Arvo Master Fund Limited, or SISU? Have I missed anyone? Can you even tell me what, whom or where this 'CCFC' is?
Happy to fill you in kid:

What - Coventry City Football Club (Known as CCFC) are a Football Club based in the City of Coventry, they are one of the original founding members of the Premier League and currently 50th in the Overall English League Pyramid.

Whom - Coventry City is owned by Hedge Fund SISU, but is representative to the fans that support Coventry.

Where -
The Ricoh Arena is currently the home of Coventry City, but I can print you off a map if you get lost!

Hope this will help you reach the club on Saturday all fans welcome :)
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

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Happy to fill you in kid:

What - Coventry City Football Club (Known as CCFC) are a Football Club based in the City of Coventry, they are one of the original founding members of the Premier League and currently 50th in the Overall English League Pyramid.

Whom - Coventry City is owned by Hedge Fund SISU, but is representative to the fans that support Coventry.

Where -
The Ricoh Arena is currently the home of Coventry City, but I can print you off a map if you get lost!

Hope this will help you reach the club on Saturday all fans welcome :)
Why thank you. Lest to update the situation with the comment that if the Golden Share is with 'Limited', the football club is no longer based there, as it'll in effect be based at the administrator's office
 

RoboCCFC90

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Why thank you. Lest to update the situation with the comment that if the Golden Share is with 'Limited', the football club is no longer based there, as it'll in effect be based at the administrator's office
Your more than welcome :) See you Saturday :wave::wave:
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

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.....with the slow progress @ £350 per hour (approx.) I should imagine he'll be able to afford an office large enough for the pitch, stadium & casino etc.
 

RoboCCFC90

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.....with the slow progress @ £350 per hour (approx.) I should imagine he'll be able to afford an office large enough for the pitch, stadium & casino etc.
Maybe we can play our games there next season and not bother to pay any rent!
 

Bugsy

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Mucca Mad Boys

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How stupid. Let's strat by you telling me who the council - even if they wanted to - should 'support'. CCFC means nothing.

Do you mean CCFC Limited, or CCFC Holdings, or Sky Blues Sports and Leisure, or Sconset, or Arvo Master Fund Limited, or SISU? Have I missed anyone? Can you even tell me what, whom or where this 'CCFC' is?
This has nothing to with SISU, the RICOH was built before they came, and the Council should've help CCFC so we wouldn't be in this mess. If they were happy to bail out ACL for 14m, as well as the other money they put into the ground, why not the same with CCFC prior to moving in the RICOH?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

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How stupid. Let's strat by you telling me who the council - even if they wanted to - should 'support'. CCFC means nothing.

Do you mean CCFC Limited, or CCFC Holdings, or Sky Blues Sports and Leisure, or Sconset, or Arvo Master Fund Limited, or SISU? Have I missed anyone? Can you even tell me what, whom or where this 'CCFC' is?
This has nothing to with SISU, the RICOH was built before they came, and the Council should've help CCFC so we wouldn't be in this mess. If they were happy to bail out ACL for 14m, as well as the other money they put into the ground, why not the same with CCFC prior to moving in the RICOH?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

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How stupid. Let's strat by you telling me who the council - even if they wanted to - should 'support'. CCFC means nothing.

Do you mean CCFC Limited, or CCFC Holdings, or Sky Blues Sports and Leisure, or Sconset, or Arvo Master Fund Limited, or SISU? Have I missed anyone? Can you even tell me what, whom or where this 'CCFC' is?
This has nothing to with SISU, the RICOH was built before they came, and the Council should've help CCFC so we wouldn't be in this mess. If they were happy to bail out ACL for 14m, as well as the other money they put into the ground, why not the same with CCFC prior to moving in the RICOH?
 

James Smith

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Nov 9, 2011
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In relation to the rent, does anyone know if SISU/CCFC (LTD or Holdings or whatever)/Sky Blues Sports & Leisure etc. ever asked for the rent to be reduced or even to have a meeting about it with ACL before not paying and then questioning the legality etc.
 

letsallsingtogether

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Because the likes of Richardson were no better then SISU sold all the players spent no money on repairing the ground and then sold it to developers when they had no money for a new ground.
As for SISU they knew what they were buying into when they come, knew what the rent was, knew what the wages were, knew they were getting no money from match day takings then they blame everyone else for there short comings
Fuck me I am just a normal bloke but even I know that was a recipe for disaster
So without the Council and the Higgs Trust there would be no CCFC
This has nothing to with SISU, the RICOH was built before they came, and the Council should've help CCFC so we wouldn't be in this mess. If they were happy to bail out ACL for 14m, as well as the other money they put into the ground, why not the same with CCFC prior to moving in the RICOH?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

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Because the likes of Richardson were no better then SISU sold all the players spent no money on repairing the ground and then sold it to developers when they had no money for a new ground.
As for SISU they knew what they were buying into when they come, knew what the rent was, knew what the wages were, knew they were getting no money from match day takings then they blame everyone else for there short comings
feck me I am just a normal bloke but even I know that was a recipe for disaster
So without the Council and the Higgs Trust there would be no CCFC
... And the creation of ACL weren't a recipe for disaster? Without CCFC, ACL are fucked, goes to show because ACL were propped up by 14m of taxpayers money. I'm going to go off on a slight tangent and ask this question: a criticism of SISU is their tactics were negative for the taxpayers, but ACL spent 14m backing a private company whilst implementing government cuts and making ordinary people redundant. Disgrace.
 

Flying Fokker

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Mar 24, 2011
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Like I've said before, it's a disgrace that CCC are willing to bail out ACL over CCFC. CCC don't have, never have (in my years), cared about the interests of the club.
Do you like handouts?

Blinkered view on how public money should be spent. Why should the council care about the interests of the club? Oh, wait a minute, they care enough to bail ACL out when SISU attempted to make them fold (therefore protecting the intersts of all people who live in Coventry rather than 7% who turn up at the ricoh regularly. My view is that Local Government should not get involved in this kind of thing........Why should public money prop up the private sector? The best way of supporting the local teams is when they put on a civic reception after achieving success.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

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Mar 20, 2011
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This has nothing to with SISU, the RICOH was built before they came, and the Council should've help CCFC so we wouldn't be in this mess. If they were happy to bail out ACL for 14m, as well as the other money they put into the ground, why not the same with CCFC prior to moving in the RICOH?
What? Do you mean something like building the ground the football club couldn't afford to build? :facepalm:

Or do you think they could have stopped Richardson selling Highfield Road?
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

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... And the creation of ACL weren't a recipe for disaster? Without CCFC, ACL are fucked, goes to show because ACL were propped up by 14m of taxpayers money.
I can either believe you. Or the auditors who signed off ACL's recent accounts as an ongoing concern.

Guess what? It's the latter.

Why don't you go and argue with them? Maybe it's because you're not qualified to? Just a guess......
 

James Smith

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Nov 9, 2011
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... And the creation of ACL weren't a recipe for disaster? Without CCFC, ACL are fucked, goes to show because ACL were propped up by 14m of taxpayers money. I'm going to go off on a slight tangent and ask this question: a criticism of SISU is their tactics were negative for the taxpayers, but ACL spent 14m backing a private company whilst implementing government cuts and making ordinary people redundant. Disgrace.
What I thought happened was that the Yorkshire Bank (YB) were getting nervous about the ability of ACL to pay the mortgage/loan thanks to the continual non payment of rent by SISU/CCFC (LTD or Holdings or whatever). So at that point the council made a decision to buy the mortgage/loan off of the YB and finance this with a lower cost loan from the (some form of the) Government. With that in place the repayments on the loan were now cheaper than they had been to the YB and this meant a saving. This saving was to be passed on to SISU/CCFC (LTD or Holdings or whatever) in the form of the last offer from ACL with reduced rent etc. Or have I (entirely possibly) missed something?
 

RoboCCFC90

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I can either believe you. Or the auditors who signed off ACL's recent accounts as an ongoing concern.

Guess what? It's the latter.

Why don't you go and argue with them? Maybe it's because you're not qualified to? Just a guess......
That's harsh MMM, you don't need to insult people when there opinion differs with yours..

In truth it would be easier without a company like ACL, but that just my opinion..
 

James Smith

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That's harsh MMM, you don't need to insult people when there opinion differs with yours..

In truth it would be easier without a company like ACL, but that just my opinion..
I agree that ACL should be merged into the club (with caveats*), I just don't think that SISU should be allowed to get their hands on it.

*no offering the lease as collateral on a loan etc.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

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That's harsh MMM, you don't need to insult people when there opinion differs with yours..

In truth it would be easier without a company like ACL, but that just my opinion..
It may be harsh, but this has already been capped off - repeatedly - in threads the author of those comments subscribed to, and participated within.

The loan of £14m suited the council, who make money out of it (and it doesn't come out of operational revenue as errantly claimed by some); and it's a lower interest rate for ACL - who also aren't beholding to a circling bank anymore. Any City fan without agenda would see it as a good thing, as it offers more security to ACL, who own the home the club plays football at. As such, it should be seen as good for the club.

It's not so good for SISU, as it stopped their game of seemingly distressing ACL by holding back a seven figure sum - presumably to capitalsie from the insecurities they cause - by picking up a distressed entity in the cheap.

The auditors signed off ACL's accounts as a going concern, knowing of the current issues and making a judgment as professionals that it's a going concern without the club's money. You may disagree. The OP may disagree - just state your case and credentials and they can be judged against the credentials of the auditors.

But to ignore debates that have run and run on here and pretend they haven't happened, nor pay any heed to the material many informed people offer is either ignorant or the work of a jaundiced view. I have little time for either.

Genuine debate, yes. Crass ignorance, no

Edited to add: I agree with your second point. But we are where we are. But they need to be negotiated out. Not crushed to pick up a bargain
 

RoboCCFC90

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I agree that ACL should be merged into the club (with caveats*), I just don't think that SISU should be allowed to get their hands on it.

*no offering the lease as collateral on a loan etc.
I agree with the SISU part no one will want to do business while they're still here regarding the Ricoh.
 

RoboCCFC90

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It may be harsh, but this has already been capped off - repeatedly - in threads the author of those comments subscribed to, and participated within.

The loan of £14m suited the council, who make money out of it (and it doesn't come out of operational revenue as errantly claimed by some); and it's a lower interest rate for ACL - who also aren't beholding to a circling bank anymore. Any City fan without agenda would see it as a good thing, as it offers more security to ACL, who own the home the club plays football at. As such, it should be seen as good for the club.

It's not so good for SISU, as it stopped their game of seemingly distressing ACL by holding back a seven figure sum - presumably to capitalsie from the insecurities they cause - by picking up a distressed entity in the cheap.

The auditors signed off ACL's accounts as a going concern, knowing of the current issues and making a judgment as professionals that it's a going concern without the club's money. You may disagree. The OP may disagree - just state your case and credentials and they can be judged against the credentials of the auditors.

But to ignore debates that have run and run on here and pretend they haven't happened, nor pay any heed to the material many informed people offer is either ignorant or the work of a jaundiced view. I have little time for either.

Genuine debate, yes. Crass ignorance, no

Edited to add: I agree with your second point. But we are where we are. But they need to be negotiated out. Not crushed to pick up a bargain
I agree with you MMM on pretty much every single part of the Arena arguement, it may seem like the council were helping ACL and not the Football Club and I can see how many people would not agree with that, but this gave SISU a chance to do a deal in the right manner without holding that money out in front of ACL and making them sweat.

What I don't agree with in the aspect of ACL, is how oblivious they were to how much the original rent deal was going to cripple the club, this didn't help of course when McGinnity sold of the rights to ACL for 6 Mil and this left the club up shit streak without it, but why he did that to this day actually makes no sense and has no logic.

That's fine MMM it is a genuine debate, that in the right way you can put your opinions and known facts across, however name calling and downgrading someone, is just pure infantile and surely you know better than that!

Finally your correct lets hope that if Haskell comes in he can make the club and the stadium hole again if not we will repeat this endless nightmare..
 

Jim

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Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Maybe it's because you're not qualified to? Just a guess......
That's harsh MMM, you don't need to insult people when there opinion differs with yours..

In truth it would be easier without a company like ACL, but that just my opinion..
If you're not a qualified accountant then he is merely stating fact, and that you aren't technically qualified to argue with the auditors.

No insult intended there I think.....
 

James Smith

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I agree with the SISU part no one will want to do business while they're still here regarding the Ricoh.
Sadly a mate of mine called me a couple of weeks ago to have a laugh at my expense over the football club that I support (this is normal and I think I'd miss it if he didn't). He hadn't grasped the full facts of what is and has been going on, and I sent him a few links which detailed our plight. He said that as a Chelsea fan (who mostly just watches on TV) he was horrified that the situation had degraded to where it has. He suggested that he'd find it impossible to do business with anyone who had withheld their rent payments for a year and would have had them booted out long ago.

He asked if I'd have done that with the tenants in my flat and I said yes without a doubt :eek:, I need to pay the mortgage with their rent.
 

James Smith

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What I don't agree with in the aspect of ACL, is how oblivious they were to how much the original rent deal was going to cripple the club, this didn't help of course when McGinnity sold of the rights to ACL for 6 Mil and this left the club up shit streak without it, but why he did that to this day actually makes no sense and has no logic.
I thought that the club was in danger of going under by breaching our banking covenants and to stave off the co-op bank pulling the plug the Higgs Charity stepped in and bought the clubs share of ACL, which bought us more time. I may be wrong though.
 

RoboCCFC90

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If you're not a qualified accountant then he is merely stating fact, and that you aren't technically qualified to argue with the auditors.

No insult intended there I think.....
Even so it would of be fine if MMM hadn't of put the "Just a guess" line on the end.

Look MMM brings a reason debate, recently it's been like a kids playground on here, a lot of people name calling all over not being able to have a reasoned debate, I know I ain't a patroned saint, but I know I shouldn't do it and try my best not too.
 

Mary_Mungo_Midge

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That's fine MMM it is a genuine debate, that in the right way you can put your opinions and known facts across, however name calling and downgrading someone, is just pure infantile and surely you know better than that!
It's not a case of knowing better. Accounts have been signed off by auditors, diligently and in compliance with law. That proves ACL's model. By simply stating you don't believe it as to question the auditors' findings and therefore reputation.

Which I don't mind if from someone of repute. This poster works in Pizza Hut from what I recall. I think there's some relevance in asking him where his authority to judge originates from
 
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RoboCCFC90

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Sadly a mate of mine called me a couple of weeks ago to have a laugh at my expense over the football club that I support (this is normal and I think I'd miss it if he didn't). He hadn't grasped the full facts of what is and has been going on, and I sent him a few links which detailed our plight. He said that as a Chelsea fan (who mostly just watches on TV) he was horrified that the situation had degraded to where it has. He suggested that he'd find it impossible to do business with anyone who had withheld their rent payments for a year and would have had them booted out long ago.

He asked if I'd have done that with the tenants in my flat and I said yes without a doubt :eek:, I need to pay the mortgage with their rent.
It's amazing how other fans don't grasp the full extent of the facts when seeing our plight, but how quickly they realise when you explain it, I explain it to my work mates, but they also take the piss, mainly because they're Incester and Scum fans..