kcic campaign - new initiaitve (2 Viewers)

[kmj5000]

That's not the point. As you say sisu don't care about Coventry. They will never ever change their views.one would hope putting extreme pressure on an organisation that relies on the local public would be affected by such actions.

It's not a blame game it's if you want to see the club back or not. Sisu will ignore all protests.

And your point was that you think blockading the Ricoh will eventually result in Sisu changing their views and deciding to come back? How does that work then exactly?

 

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[shmmeee]

And your point was that you think blockading the Ricoh will eventually result in Sisu changing their views and deciding to come back? How does that work then exactly?

No his point is that Sisu want the Ricoh for peanuts so we should help.

 

[torchomatic]

If you'd bothered to read any of my posts on the subject (don't blame you if you haven't) then you'll soon realise that I'm not the "it's all ACL's fault" kind of guy you think I am. I have said many times that SISU take the lion's share of the blame for the predicament we find ourselves in, I just controversially, it seems, attach some blame to ACL too.

I have to laugh at the "sitting at home doing nothing" comments. Although those who use it will deny it they are really saying "Look at me, I'm a better fan than you" Nine thousand others are also sitting at home doing nothing. You must feel great though, mustn't you, being "better" than over nine thousand people?

I hope you're fan of the week, no, decade on CWR next week.

Well done, here's a gold star.

I`ll be there so that makes 2 of us but you won't get a reply from the other 2 or is it really one.
Both go on about how it is all ACL fault but have as yet done nothing but sit at home so lets do it for them. I stood outside the council house 2 Fridays ago after a similar offer not one other person turned up should put up or shut up come on lads you are calling for this what is your answer we are waiting........

 

[torchomatic]

Who were the organisation who pegged the rent at an unbelievably high level needing 22500 fans a game just to break even? SISU or ACL?

I don't really give an F if the club agreed to the figure or not. At the time we were homeless and had no choice in the matter. ACL fleeced the club and got what they could. If they'd had charged us even half of that I bet we'd still be at the Ricoh and not even having this conversation.

Apparently (though I've yet to see any evidence) he states pressure should be applied to all sides. You'd also better tell Michael he has it wrong.

Im confused. What are we supposed to be protesting against acl about?

The club had an agreement to play at the Ricoh for £1.3m a year (expensive yes, no one denies that), but the club then takes a course of action that sees it a further £2m a year worse off, and takes our club away from us.

Now forgive me if im wrong, but the thing were supposed to be protesting about here is the club playing in Northampton? That action was taken purely by sisu, and it is to the detriment off ccfc finances.

Sisu could be £2m a year better off in an instant if they come back to Coventry even under the original agreement. Get them to do that and I will happily join anyone in putting pressure on acl for a lower rent.

But for now, the actual move to Northampton has nothing to do with acl.

 

[torchomatic]

I think that's right. SISU should shoulder the majority of the blame. However, many think that pressure should only be placed on SISU. I don't. It is not solely up to them whether we return to the Ricoh or not. ACL have a say in all this too.

To be fair every single City fan I have spoken to blames Sisu and that includes several who go to Sixfields.

But that's not the point, lovely straw man that it is you've created, the only people who do see it as black and white are ones like yourself. Most see blame all over the place but understand the buck stops with Sisu.

All impirical evidence suggests the majority of fans lay the majority of blame with the owners. Maybe it's all wrong. But it's more likely you're out of step with popular opinion.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Who were the organisation who pegged the rent at an unbelievably high level needing 22500 fans a game just to break even? SISU or ACL?

I don't really give an F if the club agreed to the figure or not. At the time we were homeless and had no choice in the matter. ACL fleeced the club and got what they could. If they'd had charged us even half of that I bet we'd still be at the Ricoh and not even having this conversation.

Apparently (though I've yet to see any evidence) he states pressure should be applied to all sides. You'd also better tell Michael he has it wrong.

Surely all that is irrelevant now isn't it?

Isn't the priority to get Ccfc back to Coventry? There is a stadium there, the club will be at least £2m better off instantly, and from there a more manageable rent can be negotiated.

Like I've said, city playing in Northampton has nothing to do with acl, so what exactly would we be protesting to them about?

 

[Matty_CCFC]

Torch, this is doing exactly what it says on the label - seeking to bring ALL PARTIES to account and seeking to put pressure on ALL PARTIES to reach agreement. Full details will be published next week but the petition will not be saying 'please Select Committee look only at acl/sisu [delete dependent upon personal preference] cos it's all their fault and ignore acl/sisu [delete dependent upon personal preference] cos they've done absolutely nothing wrong.' As with Grendel, I'll be in The Old Shepherd on Sunday and happy to buy a pint and discuss further

you should be on the Hill, you started that campaign.

 

[torchomatic]

Absolutely. The priority IS getting CCFC back in Cov. However, that can only happen if BOTH sides come to an agreement. It's not just about ACL or SISU, but both.

Well, playing in Northampton wasn't ACLs decision obviously, but they have contributed to the situation we find ourselves in. Surely, you can't deny that? And as I said above it's not just up to SISU.

Surely all that is irrelevant now isn't it?

Isn't the priority to get Ccfc back to Coventry? There is a stadium there, the club will be at least £2m better off instantly, and from there a more manageable rent can be negotiated.

Like I've said, city playing in Northampton has nothing to do with acl, so what exactly would we be protesting to them about?

 

[Matty_CCFC]

How do you work it out that the 30 or so people on the hill represent 'the masses'? If there's 1500 in the ground and let's say 100 (and I've never seen anything like 100 there, but let's be generous) on the hill, that's about 8% of the total people making the journey to Northampton.

You can't just assume that the 9000 that don't go agree totally with your 'it's Sisu's fault' perspective. I'm sure some of them do, I'm sure that some of them apportion a good deal of the blame to both parties, but I guarantee you that an awful lot just can't be arsed to make the trek to Northampton and don't really give a fuck who's fault it is.

If we returned to the Ricoh next week I bet at least 7k would turn up, and that would be with Sisu still at the helm. Surely it would only be the 1500 who are bothering to turn up now if they were all so fervently 'Sisu-out' as you would like to believe?

Are you really arguing that we can't call ACL/CCC to account in case they close the stadium? Applying the same logic then surely we can't challenge Sisu in case they liquidate the club. Ridiculous.

I go on the Hill and will be there again Sunday but never said or heard anyone say we are representing the masses? Where did that come from?

 

[torchomatic]

I think that is the exact opposite of what you are doing.

I go on the Hill and will be there again Sunday but never said or heard anyone say we are representing the masses? Where did that come from?

 

[mark82]

Depends on your beliefs I guess. If all you want is Sisu to own the Ricoh that's the right way, I think the problem would be gathering enough people who share that view.

For most its as simple as Sisu own the club therefore Sisu decide where we play.

Except that ACL tried to screw them over. They decided they wanted new owners for the club and they would put them into administration. Unfortunately it is not their choice. So now they have broken that relationship beyond repair and are doing nothing to repair it. You can't really blame CCFC for not wanting to deal with them. If it was my business someone had tried to forceably remove from me I damn sure wouldn't be giving them my money ever again.

SISU have done wrong by the club, that is undeniable, but ACL must also share a good portion of the blame.

 

[Grappa]

To be fair every single City fan I have spoken to blames Sisu and that includes several who go to Sixfields.

But that's not the point, lovely straw man that it is you've created, the only people who do see it as black and white are ones like yourself. Most see blame all over the place but understand the buck stops with Sisu.

All impirical evidence suggests the majority of fans lay the majority of blame with the owners. Maybe it's all wrong. But it's more likely you're out of step with popular opinion.

You do like your pomposity, don't you?

That's actually the second time I've seen you throw around the term 'impirical'. Assuming you actually meant 'empirical' and again, assuming that you actually know what it means, would you like to tell me how you've inducted this empirical data to test your hypothesis? Has there been any movement from your a priori position to your a posteriori in the light of these data?

A 'straw man' is when you misrepresent an opponents position, yes? You have actually just validated the position that I 'misrepresented'. That is, a lot of people are stating that they are on the side of the majority. I challenged that assumption so how on earth is that a straw man? Do you just read stuff on the internet and think 'oh, that sounds fancy, I'll squeeze it into one of my arrogant pseudo-intellectual posts on SBT somehow'?

If you take 'Sisu 100% to blame' and 'ACL/CCC 100% to blame' as opposite ends of a scale, I would put my own position as pretty much in the middle. How is that 'black and white'?

 

[MichaelCCFC]

you should be on the Hill, you started that campaign.

Plan was always TT would take over the hill and with 2 free buses, multiple pick up points, fireworks and lots more besides you can see why he's the man for the job. The campaign has to work on different fronts with different people doing different things so TT is doing a great job with the hill this sunday and any time I've got will be going on the Inquiry/petition

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Lots of debate.
Torch/Grappa- what would you do? How do you think the fans can be united and effective in our protest- SISU/ACL or otherwise.
It is an honest and genuine question- I'm not meaning to be belligerent.

 

[torchomatic]

We need to get one side talking to another. What any of us are currently doing (hill, home, Sixfields, Ainsworth, etc) isn't going to achieve that. We're no further forward than we were six months ago.

Lots of debate.
Torch/Grappa- what would you do? How do you think the fans can be united and effective in our protest- SISU/ACL or otherwise.
It is an honest and genuine question- I'm not meaning to be belligerent.

 

[hill83]

You do like your pomposity, don't you?

That's actually the second time I've seen you throw around the term 'impirical'. Assuming you actually meant 'empirical' and again, assuming that you actually know what it means, would you like to tell me how you've inducted this empirical data to test your hypothesis? Has there been any movement from your a priori position to your a posteriori in the light of these data?

A 'straw man' is when you misrepresent an opponents position, yes? You have actually just validated the position that I 'misrepresented'. That is, a lot of people are stating that they are on the side of the majority. I challenged that assumption so how on earth is that a straw man? Do you just read stuff on the internet and think 'oh, that sounds fancy, I'll squeeze it into one of my arrogant pseudo-intellectual posts on SBT somehow'?

If you take 'Sisu 100% to blame' and 'ACL/CCC 100% to blame' as opposite ends of a scale, I would put my own position as pretty much in the middle. How is that 'black and white'?

That's serious internet points right here

 

[mark82]

We need to get one side talking to another. What any of us are currently doing (hill, home, Sixfields, Ainsworth, etc) isn't going to achieve that. We're no further forward than we were six months ago.

Completely agree with this. It seems so simple.

 

[Mrpipes]

I've actually started the red and green scarf wearing protest , it's mine alone and I get asked about it at every home and away match
I've touted it on here but as many protests are knocked back on here due to no one being united , I was hoping this would be something that may unite the fans , red and green scarf , the civic colours of coventry , it's so simple and silent even your Nan can take part , not everyone likes to raise their voice , this is a visual protest , i'm man enough to do this at games , and many people from here and Gmk now know my face as I'm not a faceless keyboard warrior as many on here are


What are you doing ?

'You guys'?......Aren't you part of all this then? If you don't like this approach what are your bright ideas???

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

We need to get one side talking to another. What any of us are currently doing (hill, home, Sixfields, Ainsworth, etc) isn't going to achieve that. We're no further forward than we were six months ago.

Yes of course, I agree with you Torch- I would think/hope we all agree with you- forgive me it is quite the obvious thing to say, but how can we get them talking, that is the key question? Didn't ACL state a couple of weeks ago they were ready for talks (albeit through the SBT). I was wanting them to state that of their own volition- with a clear open invite if they truly meant it and so I cant help but wonder if that third party release was an artificial propoganda facade?

However I can't help but also think that the SISU reconvened Judicial review is the barrier to talks and until that is heard we will remain in this vacuum of disappointing silence.

 

[James Smith]

never going to happen! I have put forward several campaigns for these parliamentary commissions! Unless there is political gain for the MPs involved they aren't going to waste their time. Bob Ainsworth sees political advantage as he is based in and around the local area. Sadly No MP is going to push this! Will be yet another failed initiative. Like it or not the only thing that will work is a total boycott plain and simple. Trouble is this doesn't get names in papers hence why the trust do not support it!

Erm just to point out that as far as I am aware Bob Ainsworth isn't standing at the next election and so he's hardly looking for votes out of this.

 

[torchomatic]

Well, that's the $60000 question, isn't it? I don't know how we are going to get the sides to talk. Our best chance is the Trust using dialogue. I don't think anything else will make the slightest bit of difference.

I think you're right too about the JR review. That is no doubt blocking the desire to talk. But both sides have played that game, haven't they?

Yes of course, I agree with you Torch- I would think/hope we all agree with you- forgive me it is quite the obvious thing to say, but how can we get them talking, that is the key question? Didn't ACL state a couple of weeks ago they were ready for talks (albeit through the SBT). I was wanting them to state that of their own volition- with a clear open invite if they truly meant it and so I cant help but wonder if that third party release was an artificial propoganda facade?

However I can't help but also think that the SISU reconvened Judicial review is the barrier to talks and until that is heard we will remain in this vacuum of disappointing silence.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

If any of us had the answer we would have got them talking by now firstly they have to want to talk or it doesn't matter what we do.

Well, that's the $60000 question, isn't it? I don't know how we are going to get the sides to talk. Our best chance is the Trust using dialogue. I don't think anything else will make the slightest bit of difference.

I think you're right too about the JR review. That is no doubt blocking the desire to talk. But both sides have played that game, haven't they?