Judicial review thread - day 2 (2 Viewers)

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

Let's have a day 2 thread then...

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

Late kick off for day 2 in court.

The judge has more pressing issues to deal with! He has obviously had enough of Sisu's 'bluster'...

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@BBCCovWarks: When we get underway SISU QC will complete his submission. Expected to cite EU directives on state aid. #sisuvccc

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@BBCCovWarks: Council and ACL's QC's expected to take until tomorrow pm to respond. #SISUvCCC

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@TheSimonGilbert: Had a peek at Sisu's skeleton argument. Main thrust is terms of council/ACL loan were "wholly uncommercial" contrary to EU state aid law

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu look like they will ask the court to rule on damages too.

Rob S · Jun 11, 2014

Bit of prelim about timings. We'll be going until 5pm today and from 9.30 tomorrow

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Jun 11, 2014

AFCCOVENTRY said:
@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu look like they will ask the court to rule on damages too.

Ah; what a surprise. Can I guess what the proposed compromise would be?

Rob S · Jun 11, 2014

Talk about Dec 2012 & heads of terms deal leading to leaving Ricoh from Sisu QC.

Re-establishing position / argument from yesterday

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Ah; what a surprise. Can I guess what the proposed compromise would be?

Give us a share of Acl or give Ivus the stadium...

shmmeee · Jun 11, 2014

Is this the leaked skeleton argument Rob? Or has there been anything new added?

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

I guess Sisu's game plan here on taking ccc to court is the damages.

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@TheSimonGilbert: Court hears Sisu QC say Seppala told bank she would only be willing to pay £100,000 a season as it was the "going rate"

shmmeee · Jun 11, 2014

AFCCOVENTRY said:
@TheSimonGilbert: Court hears Sisu QC say Seppala told bank she would only be willing to pay £100,000 a season as it was the "going rate"

For the rent or the loan?

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

For the rent...

Rob S · Jun 11, 2014

Sisu QC talking about meetings between West & Seppala & emails between them & Delloites re: new rent of £400K c. Dec 2012

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

I guess the rent doesn't include match day costs?

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@TheSimonGilbert: Joy Seppala (Sisu) in court again as is Marilyn KH (Higgs), Peter KH, Paul Harris (Higgs /ACL) and Chris West (council)

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu agreed deal for £400k rent (subject to conditions) via bank in 2012.

Kingokings204 · Jun 11, 2014

400k sounds fair. 150k offered through admin this time last year sounds a bloody good deal to me.

Rob S · Jun 11, 2014

There's a few (6) spaces in court today. Passed Tim Fisher leaving the room as I came in with Dave (from KCIC) and Pat Abel. No sign of him since but I want to collar him to get his thoughts on how he thinks things are going.

Joy is sitting on the back row of the main courtroom (where all the legal teams are) next to Carter-Silk & Laura Deering.

Oo...TF just arrived and sitting in front of me with JS's father-in-law & Kieran Crowley (writes for the CCFC website).

Also on back row of main court area is Chris West (council finance director)

Away to the right is the press (Simon Gilbert, Keith Perry for CT; Clive Eakin for CWR. Alos with Christine Ford (council legal #2) and on the row behind them, Marilyn & Peter K-H and Paul Harris. Others behind a pillar.

Oooooo! Sisu QC has just conceded that ACL were trying to drive down the price of the debt and that they could service a £15m loan

Rob S · Jun 11, 2014

17 Dec 2012 letter. Bank considered that ACL could service the loan. Sisu QC accepts.

sky blue john · Jun 11, 2014

AFCCOVENTRY said:
@TheSimonGilbert: Court hears Sisu QC say Seppala told bank she would only be willing to pay £100,000 a season as it was the "going rate"

Going rate for a 32,000 seater stadium ?
I believe they are paying more than 100k for the palace known as sixfields !!

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Jun 11, 2014

Here’s a perversity; looking at Gilbert’s Tweet:

‘Had a peek at Sisu's skeleton argument. Main thrust isterms of council/ACL loan were "wholly uncommercial" contrary to EUstate aid law’

It’s the commercial terms of the loan – namely it’s magnitude that’s the ‘smoking gun’.

Looking at the CBRE valuation of August 2012, seemingly adopted by the council, ACL was valued at £19.6m, provided the club continued to pay £1.2m a year rent to ACL.

The loan in January 2013 of £14m is over £5m lower than the CBRE August valuation, which may reflect the landscape with regards the potential lower rental from the football club; but could easily have been swollen a touch too by incomes which, at the time and reflected in ACL’s resultant accounts which show turnover in non-footballing revenues increasing. Compromise figure?

One thing is for sure, looking back to comments from Justice Males last July; in which he stated: SISU "had caused rent to be withheld as a means of exerting pressure [on ACL] in their commercial negotiations".

How apt now, that the latest action seems centred on the lowering of ACL’s value to a level below that of the CBRE valuation, and loan made as a function of the behaviour Justice Males was so damning of

sky blue john · Jun 11, 2014

Rob S said:
There's a few (6) spaces in court today. Passed Tim Fisher leaving the room as I came in with Dave (from KCIC) and Pat Abel. No sign of him since but I want to collar him to get his thoughts on how he thinks things are going.

Joy is sitting on the back row of the main courtroom (where all the legal teams are) next to Carter-Silk & Laura Deering.

Oo...TF just arrived and sitting in front of me with JS's father-in-law & Kieran Crowley (writes for the CCFC website).

Also on back row of main court area is Chris West (council finance director)

Away to the right is the press (Simon Gilbert, Keith Perry for CT; Clive Eakin for CWR. Alos with Christine Ford (council legal #2) and on the row behind them, Marilyn & Peter K-H and Paul Harris. Others behind a pillar.

Oooooo! Sisu QC has just conceded that ACL were trying to drive down the price of the debt and that they could service a £15m loan

Rob whilst you have everyone in close proximity could you bash some heads together ?

Rob S · Jun 11, 2014

Judge quizzing Sisu QC on restructuring of bank loan and that ACL were capable of servicing a restructured load rather than buying it out.

Rob S · Jun 11, 2014

sky blue john said:
Rob whilst you have everyone in close proximity could you bash some heads together ?

Haha! I suggested to Dave that we should bundle Joy, Peter K-H & Chris West into one of the meeting rooms and bar the doors until they can come up with a decision It could end up like the end of Reservoir Dogs tho'..?

Hobo · Jun 11, 2014

sky blue john said:
Rob whilst you have everyone in close proximity could you bash some heads together ?

At least they won't have to talk to each other, silence in court!

Rob S · Jun 11, 2014

sky blue john said:
Rob whilst you have everyone in close proximity could you bash some heads together ?

Joking aside I will be making some attempts to find out where things could stand to actually resolve this rather than have to spend the rest of our lives in court.

There is def. a feeling of needing to get a deal done around the public parts of the court.

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu QC says bank were worried about a conflict of interest with company directors as ACL suggested selling debt to council

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@TheSimonGilbert: 400k rent deal of Dec 2012 would only have been for 3 years then open to renegotiation says judge.

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu QC says details of rent deal negotiations misinterpreted to councillors. Implication is not all info available at time of council loan

sky blue john · Jun 11, 2014

AFCCOVENTRY said:
@TheSimonGilbert: Sisu QC says bank were worried about a conflict of interest with company directors as ACL suggested selling debt to council

I would have thought a bank would be happy to be paid and not be out of pocket.

AFCCOVENTRY · Jun 11, 2014

@TheSimonGilbert: Original £1.3m rent deal would have come back into force after three years.

Rob S · Jun 11, 2014

Reading in council letter to Yorkshire Bank re: clearing debt

Labour group had agreed, just needed to get council meeting approval

Judicial review thread - day 2 (2 Viewers)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency