Judgement of signings (6 Viewers)

skybluegod · Apr 10, 2016

Just discussing the signing of players with Stupot on another thread and there has been a lot of talk about the failure of signings from TM but have they been that poor?

Success:
Stokes (Going to count him, given it was a loan made permenant)
Ricketts- despite woeful recent performers, was a quality player at the start of the season and the perfect foil for Reda
Murphy
Arma
Kent
Cargill- looked good in the games played
Stephens
Turner
Vincelot
Jones

Failures:
Cole
Fortune
Henderson
Hunt
Ramage
Elford-Alliyu

Up for debate:
Rose
Lorentzson
Bigi gets a lot of stick but also a lot believe he could be good with a pre-season under him

I would say that his success rate has been pretty good especially, compared o previous seasons? And espcially so given he had no scouting system?
Would argue his only downfall has been the over 30 squad, which may provide invaluable experience?

sw88 · Apr 10, 2016

Reda a success? Really?

For a player who appeared less than a full season for two years on the bounce, I'd struggle to consider him a success

skybluegod · Apr 10, 2016

sw88 said:
Reda a success? Really?

For a player who appeared less than a full season for two years on the bounce, I'd struggle to consider him a success

Can you point out where i have said he is a success?

stupot07 · Apr 10, 2016

I think it would be better to separate loans from perms

Perms

Success:
Vincelot
Stokes

So so:
Ricketts - started well but has really gone down hill in the last 18-20 games and has been at fault for a lot of goals
Rose - think he will be a solid signing.
Lamieres

Failure:
Fortune
Henderson
Ramage
Cole
Elford-Alliyu
Hunt
Lorentzson
Re-signing Reda
Re-signing Tudguy

loans

Success:
Armstrong (season long) - but with big question marks about his effectiveness away from home
Murphy (season long) - but with caveats
Kent (short term) - ditto
Stephens (short term)
Jones (short term)

So so:
Cargill (short term)

Failure:
Bigi (long term)
Morris (season long loan cancelled)
Turner (short term)

Left the Bulgarian and the young lad out as its too early to tell.

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Samo · Apr 10, 2016

sw88 said:
Reda a success? Really?

For a player who appeared less than a full season for two years on the bounce, I'd struggle to consider him a success

Erm... he didn't say he was.

Grendel · Apr 10, 2016

Samo said:
Erm... he didn't say he was.

Oddly he doesn't list him at all. Also he doesn't list lameries does he? Also the decision to spend budget on Tudgay has to be mentioned,

It's very generous to count Stokes as he wouldn't be here but for Hockaday. Only vincelot has been good of his actual signings.

skybluegod · Apr 10, 2016

Grendel said:
Oddly he doesn't list him at all. Also he doesn't list lameries does he? Also the decision to spend budget on Tudgay has to be mentioned,

It's very generous to count Stokes as he wouldn't be here but for Hockaday. Only vincelot has been good of his actual signings.

Forgot about Ruben, but Reda and Tudgay were here before and were merely extensions

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 10, 2016

I'd say Turner was a failure. The loan was a gamble, based on him only being here to build up fitness, and it was a gamble that didn't work out.

sw88 · Apr 10, 2016

skybluegod said:
Can you point out where i have said he is a success?

I'm sure I seen him listed :thinking about:

Ill use the 'I was reading on my phone' excuse and think I must have just seen his name alongside the Ricketts comment.

Sorry

dongonzalos · Apr 10, 2016

60-40
Success over failure
Next season is the time to really judge

Hadji10 · Apr 10, 2016

dongonzalos said:
60-40
Success over failure
Next season is the time to really judge

Bollocks.

skybluegod · Apr 10, 2016

Hadji10 said:
Bollocks.

I swear you only post when we are doing badly?

Hadji10 · Apr 10, 2016

skybluegod said:
I swear you only post when we are doing badly?

And what?

stupot07 · Apr 10, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'd say Turner was a failure. The loan was a gamble, based on him only being here to build up fitness, and it was a gamble that didn't work out.

Good point

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lifeskyblue · Apr 10, 2016

For me the business done before the season and up to January was generally good. On the January window things started to go wrong; the Cole experiment didn't work out and the rest were average at best, terrible in the main

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skybluegod · Apr 10, 2016

lifeskyblue said:
For me the business done before the season and up to January was generally good. On the January window things started to go wrong; the Cole experiment didn't work out and the rest were average at best, terrible in the main

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Out of result of desperation to get more bodies in? Or do you think TM just got it wrong?

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 10, 2016

skybluegod said:
Out of result of desperation to get more bodies in? Or do you think TM just got it wrong?

It's worryingly similar to Pressley's SIxfields season. First half sees some young guys playing some breathtaking attacking football, Ricketts is mirroring the Webster career trajectry with CCFC, too.

Then come January, for whatever reason (manager or directive from above) we throw out what's worked to that point, and try and sign experience to get us over the line.

lifeskyblue · Apr 10, 2016

skybluegod said:
Out of result of desperation to get more bodies in? Or do you think TM just got it wrong?

I think he got it wrong with Cole and Hunt. Lorentzen seemed to take an age to get fit. Ramage was desperation and didn't work out. TM seemed to lose nerve. He had gone for youth early on but January he switched to experience.
I think the dressing room changed and team spirit went down hill. I had heard Kent was very positive and popular in the dressing room. Small things count for so much

skybluegod · Apr 10, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
It's worryingly similar to Pressley's Sixfields season. First half sees some young guys playing some breathtaking attacking football, Ricketts is mirroring the Webster career trajectry with CCFC, too.

Then come January, for whatever reason (manager or directive from above) we throw out what's worked to that point, and try and sign experience to get us over the line.

Well except I don't think any of SP's signings were a success? I can't even remember that players we brought in tbh under SP there were so many. Who did we bring in that window?

oucho · Apr 10, 2016

Surely Cole can't be described as a total failure? He has kept his head above water better than most. Some fans expected him to tear up the division but that was never fair.

skybluegod · Apr 10, 2016

lifeskyblue said:
I think he got it wrong with Cole and Hunt. Lorentzen seemed to take an age to get fit. Ramage was desperation and didn't work out. TM seemed to lose nerve. He had gone for youth early on but January he switched to experience.
I think the dressing room changed and team spirit went down hill. I had heard Kent was very positive and popular in the dressing room. Small things count for so much

Yeah I think i would agree with that. I think Cole by himself may have been okay, as he was someone to look up to, It was the other 3 (Hunt, Ramage and Henderson) which i think upset the balance a bit. Also the loss of Kent meaning that Trio of loan players, weren't there.

Hadji10 · Apr 10, 2016

oucho said:
Surely Cole can't be described as a total failure? He has kept his head above water better than most. Some fans expected him to tear up the division but that was never fair.

Why? A 36 year old Paul Merson teared it up a division higher about 10
Years ago.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 10, 2016

skybluegod said:
Well except I don't think any of SP's signings were a success? I can't even remember that players we brought in tbh under SP there were so many. Who did we bring in that window?

Webster I think we're coloured like we are with Ricketts now. They both started off fine for us, for half a season. Arguably his loans were as good as Mowbray's too (Maguire was alright but left early, Petrasso showed glimpses of form, could have done as well as Murphy if here longer I reckon).

That March saw us bring in the likes of Robinson and Prutton to steady the ship. Didn't work.

skybluegod · Apr 10, 2016

oucho said:
Surely Cole can't be described as a total failure? He has kept his head above water better than most. Some fans expected him to tear up the division but that was never fair.

He has had two good performances: Crewe and Bury. He adds nothing to open play imo, his set pieces are the best in the division. But that doesn't make him a success to be honest. I brought some friends to a couple home games, one a Leicester and one a Tottenham fan, both thought he was pretty awful.

lifeskyblue · Apr 10, 2016

oucho said:
Surely Cole can't be described as a total failure? He has kept his head above water better than most. Some fans expected him to tear up the division but that was never fair.

A failure by his standards. If he was an unknown we might have thought he was average. But he is the player with most England caps we have ever had (apart from Pearce). Unfortunately the demands of L1 are different to premiership. Has he slowed down so much or are our other players slow of thought and Cole just can't set them free?

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 10, 2016

oucho said:
Surely Cole can't be described as a total failure? He has kept his head above water better than most. Some fans expected him to tear up the division but that was never fair.

Wechanged to accomodate him though, and that's arguably the first stirrings of fragility, the first showing of a lack of faith in the players who'd got us doing alright to that point, and has arguably done for Lameiras's City career, as his confidence looks completely shot now having been marginalised.

stupot07 · Apr 10, 2016

oucho said:
Surely Cole can't be described as a total failure? He has kept his head above water better than most. Some fans expected him to tear up the division but that was never fair.

I think its more the fact his introduction has led to other players being shifted around more, has been the main reason for over rotation of playersin thr midfiekd and has slowed our play down.

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stupot07 · Apr 10, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Webster I think we're coloured like we are with Ricketts now. They both started off fine for us, for half a season. Arguably his loans were as good as Mowbray's too (Maguire was alright but left early, Petrasso showed glimpses of form, could have done as well as Murphy if here longer I reckon).

That March saw us bring in the likes of Robinson and Prutton to steady the ship. Didn't work.

He also signed Samuel, mark marshall was OK, Job, RCC, Aaron Martin, stokes

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Nick · Apr 10, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Wechanged to accomodate him though, and that's arguably the first stirrings of fragility, the first showing of a lack of faith in the players who'd got us doing alright to that point, and has arguably done for Lameiras's City career, as his confidence looks completely shot now having been marginalised.

That's the thing, if he can only manage x games, it means a player is benched for those games and then put in for when Cole doesn't play. Then no matter how well they play, back out again!

skybluegod · Apr 10, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Webster I think we're coloured like we are with Ricketts now. They both started off fine for us, for half a season. Arguably his loans were as good as Mowbray's too (Maguire was alright but left early, Petrasso showed glimpses of form, could have done as well as Murphy if here longer I reckon).

That March saw us bring in the likes of Robinson and Prutton to steady the ship. Didn't work.

No disagree completely RE Webster, we leaked goals all season with him and Clarke at CB, terrible record in terms of goals conceded?
Don't think you can count Maguire as he didn't play more than two games for us?
Petrasso agree, but compared TM has had miles more success in terms of loans?

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 10, 2016

skybluegod said:
No disagree completely RE Webster, we leaked goals all season with him and Clarke at CB, terrible record in terms of goals conceded?
Don't think you can count Maguire as he didn't play more than two games for us?
Petrasso agree, but compared TM has had miles more success in terms of loans?

Webster was what stopped us leaking even more goals first half of the season! He was about the only one who looked half-solid.

If we can count Turner, then we can count Maguire!

Mark Marshall was alright for us too.

And the success of Pressley early on was he didn't sign players for the hell of it, he got who he had (Thomas etc.) playing well.

The problem was much as now, once the manager openly stopped having faith in the group who was there originally, by signing their replacements!

oucho · Apr 10, 2016

Chris Dagnall was a decent loannee for SP, as were Robinson and Prutton to start off with.

Back to Cole, a lot was expected but putting that aside, his own performance has been in the soso camp not a failure, not his fault that shoehorning him into a winning team upset our balance and disrupted momentum.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 10, 2016

oucho said:
his own performance has been in the soso camp not a failure.

What has he actually done for us?

oucho · Apr 10, 2016

Played reasonably well in a team that began struggling. Never gave up. Set a decent example to the rest of the squad. THAT free kick.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Apr 10, 2016

stupot07 said:
He also signed Samuel, mark marshall was OK, Job, RCC, Aaron Martin, stokes

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And Chuba, Ecclestone, Delfouneso, Donelly, Mcgeouch, Seaborne, Dagnall, Mcquoid, Coulibaly, Alsop, Pugh, Manset, Urqhart, Slager, Marshall, Loza, Swanson, Tudgay, Miller, Turgott, Hines, Odelusi, Nouble, Williams, Madine, Reda, Jackson, Prutton, Robinson

Pressley signing players was like drawing names out of a hat, Mowbray don't get them all right but at least there seems to be some sort of thought and planning behind them.

Judgement of signings (6 Viewers)

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