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JP heading out on loan (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter AFCCOVENTRY
  • Start date Aug 24, 2018
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #36
Otis said:
He is a natural goalscorer. I think you know exactly what I mean by that.

JCH isn't a natural goalscorer. Biamou isn't a natural goalscorer. Bakayoko isn't a natural goalscorer.

McNulty was. McGoldrick was. Think you know exactly what I mean. It's a instinct thing and a natural finisher thing.
Click to expand...

Don’t see how that has been apparent at all - Mcgoldrick wasn’t a penalty box finisher either
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #37
Grendel said:
Don’t see how that has been apparent at all - Mcgoldrick wasn’t a penalty box finisher either
Click to expand...
McGoldrick scored 76% of his goals for us from inside the box.
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #38
Ccfcisparks said:
McGoldrick scored 76% of his goals for us from inside the box.
Click to expand...
was called mcgoaldraught before he joined though
 

GaryJones

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #39
I think Mark Robins and AV will work with Bakayoko and turn him into one of our top scorers by the seasons end.
Walsall hardly ever work at developing players (other than Tom Bradshaw) - I think we might reap the benefit over the course of the season.
I remember everyone slagging McNulty off this time last season.
Trust me you heard it here first!
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #40
GaryJones said:
and turn him into one of our top scorers by the seasons end.
Click to expand...
tbf, he's currently one of our top scorers...
 
Reactions: woody11462, stupot07 and GaryJones

Ash

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #41
GaryJones said:
I think Mark Robins and AV will work with Bakayoko and turn him into one of our top scorers by the seasons end.
Walsall hardly ever work at developing players (other than Tom Bradshaw) - I think we might reap the benefit over the course of the season.
I remember everyone slagging McNulty off this time last season.
Trust me you heard it here first!
Click to expand...

They may improve his knowledge of the offside rule, but not his ability as a striker.

Even when McNulty wasn’t firing last season, you could see his all round play was geared towards him being a good forward at the level we were at, it just wasn’t going in for him at the start.

I don’t see any of that being replicated with Bakayoko, he looks awful!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #42
Ccfcisparks said:
McGoldrick scored 76% of his goals for us from inside the box.
Click to expand...

Still doesn’t show him as an instinctive finisher but is interesting as it means 14.44 goals were scored in the penalty area

Where is the source for that?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #43
CCFC54321 said:
If Robins is saying that Bakayoko is a better player than Ponticelli then I fucking give up.

Bakayoko will turn out to me one of our worst signings ever. I though Vincenti was a terrible signing but Bakayoko takes it to another level.

I can’t believe Robins signed Bakayoko and must have had him pushed on him. That’s the only excuse I can think of? It’s like going out with 10 men and were handicapped straight away with him. No wonder players get pissed off with Bakayoko in the starting 11.

Before anyone asks no I’m not a fan of him!
Click to expand...
What makes you say players are pissed off the Bakayoko in the starting 11? Where's that come from? Never heard anyone else mention that as a possible rumour.
 
Reactions: GaryJones

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #44
Adge said:
So we give him an easy ride then but not others because “he’s one of our own”?:emoji_thinking:
Click to expand...

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but it happens.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #45
GaryJones said:
I think Mark Robins and AV will work with Bakayoko and turn him into one of our top scorers by the seasons end.
Walsall hardly ever work at developing players (other than Tom Bradshaw) - I think we might reap the benefit over the course of the season.
I remember everyone slagging McNulty off this time last season.
Trust me you heard it here first!
Click to expand...


That would be a miracle there is more chance of him walking on water
 

GaryJones

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #46
Ash said:
They may improve his knowledge of the offside rule, but not his ability as a striker.

Even when McNulty wasn’t firing last season, you could see his all round play was geared towards him being a good forward at the level we were at, it just wasn’t going in for him at the start.

I don’t see any of that being replicated with Bakayoko, he looks awful!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
He is big 6ft 4" I think and he is quick - I agree his positioning is all over the place right now but that can be coached out - have faith in AV as he is one of the best coaches outside the Premier League.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #47
GaryJones said:
He is big 6ft 4" I think and he is quick - I agree his positioning is all over the place right now but that can be coached out - have faith in AV as he is one of the best coaches outside the Premier League.
Click to expand...


Not sure finishing can be coached that easily
 

IrishSkyBlue

Facebook User
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #48
I think MR should give him a go saturday and see how he does but maybe a loan would help him develop, could be banging them in by january and we can recall him then if we ar ein dire straights.
 

ceetee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #49
Terry Gibson's perm said:
Not sure finishing can be coached that easily
Click to expand...

I think you can improve, but what you can't coach is the instinct of being in the right place at the right time. You can learn to be better but it won't be instinctive.
 

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #50
It's absolute madness how everyone is so frothing at the mouth about how bad Bakayoko is. It's like the more aggressive in their assessment of him, the more they can high five and pat themselves on the back if he turns out to be a shit signing. His performance against Blackpool was poor to say the least, but it's ONE game, in a performance where Shipley, Doyle, Ogogo and many others were equally dreadful. Stop getting so bloody pent up and angry about a City player. Give the lad a few games to settle in, and stop blaming him for us not being in the playoffs because you're disappointed Robins didn't sign another striker you've never seen before.
 
Reactions: Liquid Gold, MusicDating, Covskyblue and 5 others
C

coop

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #51
He deserves a decent chance in the first alongside another striker but if we on going to continue playing this shit formation and not even creating a chance then the lad should be sent out and given a chance to shine somewhere else.It's also time Michael Doyle got left out as his legs are not good enough for league 1 leaving a space for a more creative player in there.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #52
GaryJones said:
I think Mark Robins and AV will work with Bakayoko and turn him into one of our top scorers by the seasons end.
Walsall hardly ever work at developing players (other than Tom Bradshaw) - I think we might reap the benefit over the course of the season.
I remember everyone slagging McNulty off this time last season.
Trust me you heard it here first!
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that's bollocks.

I will give bakayoko a chance, but j just don't believe he's good enough or more importantly the right player. I hope he goes on to score 20 goals, as that will mean we have a decent signing I'm fed up of the McNulty comparison, he scored goals at Livingstone and at Portsmouth, and i was one of those sticking up for him, i could see he had a touch or class and was getting in the right areas. Ive not seen that from baka's and looking back his record is poor.

We all thought Kevin kyle was shite when we signed him to replace Sheffers goals....

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Last edited: Aug 24, 2018

GaryJones

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #53
stupot07 said:
Sorry that's bollocks.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Apology accepted!
I'm glad you are prepared to give him a chance as I'm sure he will come good.
 

hill83

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #54
Grendel said:
Still doesn’t show him as an instinctive finisher but is interesting as it means 14.44 goals were scored in the penalty area

Where is the source for that?
Click to expand...

That 0.44 goal he scored was an absolute belter. I was in tears.
 
Reactions: Adge and GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #55
Nick said:
He isn't the same sort of player as Biamou though so in theory we can't chuck him in and expect him to do the same thing now Biamou is injured. He is the sort of player that would thrive from playing alongside Biamou.
Click to expand...
Didn't stop us with Bakayoko, Nick!
 
Reactions: Covskyblue

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #56
JamesCCFC said:
Change 'goalscorer' to 'finisher' and I'd agree with his comment.
Click to expand...
I'd agree but he scored a blinder from outside the box last season. It was like a perfect golf shot onto the green, dipping and swerving it's way over the defenders and beyond the 'keepers reach...thought he deserved a run after that but he's not a winger and that was the only way into the side last year with Biamou-McNulty working up top.
 

sw88

Chief Commentator!
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #57
Surely we need all hands on deck when it comes to players playing up front right now, unless we have someone lined up?

Or will we do another ‘mcdonald’ and let one player go without replacing them first?

As frustrating as it must be Chaplin, Pompey might be right in not letting him go before they replace him!
 

cc84cov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #58
Can’t see this happening with Max now out unless Robins will be bringing someone in...
 
S

SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #59
Nonleagueherewecome said:
I'd agree but he scored a blinder from outside the box last season. It was like a perfect golf shot onto the green, dipping and swerving it's way over the defenders and beyond the 'keepers reach...thought he deserved a run after that but he's not a winger and that was the only way into the side last year with Biamou-McNulty working up top.
Click to expand...

I'd still say that qualifies him as a great finisher rather than a goalscorer. Most strikers at one point in their career can score a screamer. That doesn't necessarily qualify them as a goalscorer, or a great finisher for that matter. Look at Biamou as a case in point - scores great goals but isn't a goalscorer. Goalscorer's bare the title because they have a career record to back that title up. Doesn't really matter the type or quality of goal he scored, Ponti only scored 6 goals last season.
 

Covstu

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #60
He isn’t getting games so I think he needs to go out on loan however I think he has something to offer and will be a mistake. Not sure if he is a poor trainer so doesn’t ‘deserve’ a start but still think he is our best chance of goals this season but maybe 3 months at Tranmere might highlight this to MR
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #61
sw88 said:
Surely we need all hands on deck when it comes to players playing up front right now, unless we have someone lined up?

Or will we do another ‘mcdonald’ and let one player go without replacing them first?

As frustrating as it must be Chaplin, Pompey might be right in not letting him go before they replace him!
Click to expand...

For me, Ponticelli needs game time. Whether it be with us or out on loan, 20m cameos will stunt his development. Personally, I’d be tempted to give him a go upfront. However, if Robins doesn’t feel he’s ready, a loan to L2 and a few goals at senior level will force him back into the picture with us.

The lads needs quality game time or we’ll waste his talent.
 
Reactions: sw88 and COVKIDSNEVERQUIT

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #62
ceetee said:
I think you can improve, but what you can't coach is the instinct of being in the right place at the right time. You can learn to be better but it won't be instinctive.
Click to expand...


Part is practice but a lot comes naturally and the instinct is with you as you say he has neither unfortunately.
 

Spurs 'City Away Kit' Kit

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #63
Agree totally, last season first game (Notts County 3-0!!)McNulty looked a different class even though we waited an age for him to start scoring.

Saying that, I also said that about Rod McDonald.....

For me a dream scenario this season would have been Biamou working his arse off as he did almost every game last season, banging in the occasional 25 yard screamer and overhead kick, coupled with a McNulty/Chaplin/Future Ponticelli type.

We need to accept we aren’t there and won’t be, systems are changing, players such as Andreu & Jones coming back along with new signings hopefully coming good give us the opportunity to build and push on. So many changes were never going to be easy, we can criticise Robins all day long for too many changes to the team (I think only 3 on the play off final team started at Wimbledon) but if we sacrifice performance for the first 5-10 games to have a good run and challenge for play offs I can live with that.


Ash said:
They may improve his knowledge of the offside rule, but not his ability as a striker.

Even when McNulty wasn’t firing last season, you could see his all round play was geared towards him being a good forward at the level we were at, it just wasn’t going in for him at the start.

I don’t see any of that being replicated with Bakayoko, he looks awful!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
ee total
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #64
GaryJones said:
I think Mark Robins and AV will work with Bakayoko and turn him into one of our top scorers by the seasons end.
Walsall hardly ever work at developing players (other than Tom Bradshaw) - I think we might reap the benefit over the course of the season.
I remember everyone slagging McNulty off this time last season.
Trust me you heard it here first!
Click to expand...

Bradshaw was already quality as a kid at Aberystwyth, was always going to be a player (they're my second team 'cos I want to move there one day!).

Coleman: Bradshaw Call Up Shows There is a Pathway for WPL Players
 
Reactions: GaryJones

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #65
W
Grendel said:
Still doesn’t show him as an instinctive finisher but is interesting as it means 14.44 goals were scored in the penalty area

Where is the source for that?
Click to expand...
Watch his goals on Youtube
 

Skybluefaz

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #66
Adge said:
What a load of cobblers that “natural goalscorer” theory is. Where are the goals then?
Click to expand...
Come on. He's been prolific at all junior levels. He's a penalty box goalscorer. Whilst he's not yet been prolific at first team level we can all see that he gets himself into the right positions and has chipped in when he's been given a chance.
 
Reactions: Nonleagueherewecome

cc84cov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #67
The lad hasn’t been given a chance an when he has it’s 20 mins playing left midfield..our problem is creativity with 2 holding players I just can’t see ya creating enough for who ever is up front
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #68
JamesCCFC said:
I'd still say that qualifies him as a great finisher rather than a goalscorer. Most strikers at one point in their career can score a screamer. That doesn't necessarily qualify them as a goalscorer, or a great finisher for that matter. Look at Biamou as a case in point - scores great goals but isn't a goalscorer. Goalscorer's bare the title because they have a career record to back that title up. Doesn't really matter the type or quality of goal he scored, Ponti only scored 6 goals last season.
Click to expand...

I think he had the best minutes per goal ratio at the club didn't he? It was certainly better than McNulty's at one stage. He barely started and usually when he did it was out wide.

Robins waxed lyrical at times about what a natural goalscorer he is, just needed to learn the other parts of the game. He's hungry for goals, his first thought is "how can I score". Like Micky Quinn, he might miss a few, but he'll get chances and take shots that other forwards don't.

The long range screamer I spoke about wasn't just a hit it and hope, it was a work of art in the discipline of scoring a goal. Calculated, cool, outrageous and clinical. Here's what Robins said about him afterwards: Mark Robins hails Coventry City hero Jordan Ponticelli
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #69
Skybluefaz said:
Come on. He's been prolific at all junior levels. He's a penalty box goalscorer. Whilst he's not yet been prolific at first team level we can all see that he gets himself into the right positions and has chipped in when he's been given a chance.
Click to expand...

I'd argue about him not being prolific TBF.

Here's his stats from last season (if Im reading transfermarkt properly, which isn't a given)

League (Inc playoffs): Minutes: 541 (6 game equivalents) Goals: 3 Ratio: 2 game equivalents per goal.

Cups: Minutes: 161 (1.79 game equivalents) Goals: 3 Ratio: 0.6 game equivalents per goal.

Overall: 702 minutes (7.8 games) to 6 goals, a goal every 1.3 games.

Sure the sample size is small and easily skewed, but he can only work with what he's given and that's pretty prolific.

I'd say the kid deserves his chance.
 
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Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 24, 2018
  • #70
Covstu said:
He isn’t getting games so I think he needs to go out on loan however I think he has something to offer and will be a mistake. Not sure if he is a poor trainer so doesn’t ‘deserve’ a start but still think he is our best chance of goals this season but maybe 3 months at Tranmere might highlight this to MR
Click to expand...
Maybe like McSheffrey at Luton? But like McSheffrey, he was already good enough, actually...
 
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