Israel - Palestinian Conflict (4 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Judging by your comments earlier, I presume if it is, then it's on Trump?

Clearly it’s on Netanyahu, but this is the problem when an idiot way out of his depth declares that he has brought peace to the region just because a piece of paper was signed.

He has switched sides in the Ukraine/Russia conflict countless times too, it must be exhausting for his sycophants trying to keep up.

 

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[chiefdave]

This was always the fear. Sadly it seems to be becoming reality.

Was only yesterday that I was reading the IDF had only just allowed the Red Cross to enter parts of Gaza to start locating the hostages bodies. Some of the reporting makes it sound like they've been hidden someone and there's just a refusal to hand them over when the sad reality is everywhere has been reduced to ruble and finding the bodies may prove to be impossible, as the ceasefire agreement acknowledged.

Hard not to see this as Netanyahu getting what he could before picked up right where he left off.

Lets hope pressure is quickly applied to force him to stop.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

This was always the fear. Sadly it seems to be becoming reality.

Was only yesterday that I was reading the IDF had only just allowed the Red Cross to enter parts of Gaza to start locating the hostages bodies. Some of the reporting makes it sound like they've been hidden someone and there's just a refusal to hand them over when the sad reality is everywhere has been reduced to ruble and finding the bodies may prove to be impossible, as the ceasefire agreement acknowledged.

Hard not to see this as Netanyahu getting what he could before picked up right where he left off.

Lets hope pressure is quickly applied to force him to stop.

You make it sound like Hamas not keeping their part of the agreement is not important, and they can't at all be blamed.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You make it sound like Hamas not keeping their part of the agreement is not important, and they can't at all be blamed.

But do you not accept that a deal to return all the hostages bodies, as per the agreement, is completely impossible because so much of it has been absolutely destroyed? How do you return a body from an area that has been completely obliterated? There is nothing left to return.

Now of course the fact that there ever were any hostages, and that they have been killed, is absolutely abhorrent and condemned in the strongest terms, but it seems to me that the terms of the deal were deliberately set out to allow Israel to say that the Palestinians were not keeping their side of the agreement and so could just carry on where they left off trying to take over Gaza once the surviving hostages had been returned.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

But do you not accept that a deal to return all the hostages bodies, as per the agreement, is completely impossible because so much of it has been absolutely destroyed? How do you return a body from an area that has been completely obliterated? There is nothing left to return.

Now of course the fact that there ever were any hostages, and that they have been killed, is absolutely abhorrent and condemned in the strongest terms, but it seems to me that the terms of the deal were deliberately set out to allow Israel to say that the Palestinians were not keeping their side of the agreement and so could just carry on where they left off trying to take over Gaza once the surviving hostages had been returned.

I mean, this seems to me like Hamas have played their part in not honouring the agreements. They've been putting body parts of already returned murdered hostages into other coffins and playing it off as different people.

Israel says coffin from Hamas did not contain another hostage's body

Israel accuses Hamas of a "clear violation" of the ceasefire deal after tests showed the remains belonged to a person whose body was previously returned.

www.bbc.com

This argument that the poor terrorists (no I am not talking about civilians) got bombed and therefore they don't have any responsibility to hold up their end of the bargian to be disingenuous.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Turns out the "ceasefire" was only for a couple of weeks.

How naive were people that they thought Trump could humble the ego that is Netenyahu

 

[SBT]

90+ reportedly killed overnight. Israel says the ceasefire will resume today, but Trump says Israel reserves the right to “hit back” if needed.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

and not a squeak about the attack on the Daily Fail...

 

[SBAndy]

90+ reportedly killed overnight. Israel says the ceasefire will resume today, but Trump says Israel reserves the right to “hit back” if needed.

I’ve just started fasting. Well, until lunch when I’ll eat, then I’ll fast again until dinner time.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

90+ reportedly killed overnight. Israel says the ceasefire will resume today, but Trump says Israel reserves the right to “hit back” if needed.

Pretty convenient really, kill at night, rest during the day. Even bloodthirsty maniacs need their beauty sleep.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I mean, this seems to me like Hamas have played their part in not honouring the agreements. They've been putting body parts of already returned murdered hostages into other coffins and playing it off as different people.

Israel says coffin from Hamas did not contain another hostage's body

Israel accuses Hamas of a "clear violation" of the ceasefire deal after tests showed the remains belonged to a person whose body was previously returned.

www.bbc.com

This argument that the poor terrorists (no I am not talking about civilians) got bombed and therefore they don't have any responsibility to hold up their end of the bargian to be disingenuous.

So if you were Palestine and knew the agreement (which you weren't involved in setting up) says that you have to return all the hostages (dead or alive) and you also know that because of Gaza being bombed to shit some of the remains of hostages cannot, and will never be, found that you can't keep to those terms and therefore know it's only a matter of time before Israel attacks again. What do you do? Possibly in desperation to keep to the agreement and prevent that outcome you make sure every hostage is accounted for, without really thinking about the fact they'll be DNA tested when they get returned to Israel.

It may also be that with the constant bombardment they don't even know which set of remains are which. If you were storing the bodies of hostages in the same place and that place gets bombed how do you know which bits belong to which corpse?

Israel knew that this part of the deal couldn't be kept and they'd have an excuse to start the war again.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

So if you were Palestine and knew the agreement (which you weren't involved in setting up) says that you have to return all the hostages (dead or alive) and you also know that because of Gaza being bombed to shit some of the remains of hostages cannot, and will never be, found that you can't keep to those terms and therefore know it's only a matter of time before Israel attacks again. What do you do? Possibly in desperation to keep to the agreement and prevent that outcome you make sure every hostage is accounted for, without really thinking about the fact they'll be DNA tested when they get returned to Israel.

It may also be that with the constant bombardment they don't even know which set of remains are which. If you were storing the bodies of hostages in the same place and that place gets bombed how do you know which bits belong to which corpse?

Israel knew that this part of the deal couldn't be kept and they'd have an excuse to start the war again.

I'm all for having a go at Israel, but you are so blindsided by this that you can't evaluate this properly at all. Hamas shot and killed an Israeli soldier, and returned remains of hostages they murdered and tried to pass it off as other hostages they murdered, and it doesn't even register with you.

Of course Israel are looking for any reason to kick off again, but Hamas just handed it to them on a plate, and you are looking to put the blame absolutely anywhere else.

 

[Sick Boy]

I'm all for having a go at Israel, but you are so blindsided by this that you can't evaluate this properly at all. Hamas shot and killed an Israeli soldier, and returned remains of hostages they murdered and tried to pass it off as other hostages they murdered, and it doesn't even register with you.

Of course Israel are looking for any reason to kick off again, but Hamas just handed it to them on a plate, and you are looking to put the blame absolutely anywhere else.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a faction in Palestine firing at the Israelis in an attempt to cause it to kick off again. The psychos in the Israeli government are looking for any excuse to start bombing again though, as you said.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a faction in Palestine firing at the Israelis in an attempt to cause it to kick off again. The psychos in the Israeli government are looking for any excuse to start bombing again though, as you said.

Yeah, you could be spot on with that.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I'm all for having a go at Israel, but you are so blindsided by this that you can't evaluate this properly at all. Hamas shot and killed an Israeli soldier, and returned remains of hostages they murdered and tried to pass it off as other hostages they murdered, and it doesn't even register with you.

Of course Israel are looking for any reason to kick off again, but Hamas just handed it to them on a plate, and you are looking to put the blame absolutely anywhere else.

There is almost certainly an element of Hamas being deliberately problematic, but can you not see there could be major problems in them being able to return the remains of hostages.

Of course those hostages should never have been taken, let alone murdered, in the first place but we've had tens of thousands of Palestinians murdered as retribution for that. To then have this restart because some of those remains aren't returned, when it's pretty obvious it'd impossible to do so for all the victims even with the best will in the world (which Hamas of course won't have anyway) then that's just ludicrous.

 

[chiefdave]

There is almost certainly an element of Hamas being deliberately problematic, but can you not see there could be major problems in them being able to return the remains of hostages.

Of course those hostages should never have been taken, let alone murdered, in the first place but we've had tens of thousands of Palestinians murdered as retribution for that. To then have this restart because some of those remains aren't returned, when it's pretty obvious it'd impossible to do so for all the victims even with the best will in the world (which Hamas of course won't have anyway) then that's just ludicrous.

This is the issue. People are talking as if the bodies are laid out in a morgue somewhere and its just down to a refusal to hand them over. While there may people involved who are causing issues the reality is its not a simple task. Even the original ceasefire agreement acknowledged that it could be a long time, if ever, before it was possible to return the bodies. So while we all want and strongly believe the bodies should be return there has to be a level of realism here.

You're looking for the remains of 21 people among 11,000 bodies, without any facilities for testing remains to confirm identity, in a county that has been 90% flattened and where many of the bodies could be in an area that the IDF won't allow anyone to search, even third parties like the Red Cross who are the organisation searching for and returning bodies. Its also highly likely that the only people who ever knew even roughly where the bodies are located have been killed.