Is it time to play our youth players? (1 Viewer)

AFCCOVENTRY · Mar 27, 2016

Not many games left now and I don't think the current squad is capable of winning let alone getting back to back wins.

I think Mogga should start blooding the cream of the crop from the U21s in preperation for next season. Give them a taster now so they have a good pre season and push for the first team next season.

Good to see Jones get some action. But the like of Sambou etc.

3/4 of the current squad won't be here in the summer. Time to prepare for next season now.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 27, 2016

Don't think we should chuck them all in but would like to see G Thomas more involved on a consistent basis and maybe Sambou get the odd sub appearance.

sw88 · Mar 27, 2016

George Thomas and Sambou should get a run in IMO. Something fresh / new might just be what we need (that doesn't come with a self fitted Zimmer frame)

Otis · Mar 27, 2016

Definitely think we should slowly start integrating them now until the end of the season.

lifeskyblue · Mar 27, 2016

Yes bring them in. Not all at once but start a couple each game left and have another 2 on bench. TM don't be afraid to use them

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wingy · Mar 27, 2016

I'm not sure TM is a fan of home produce,thus the import of three players last week.
Really get the feeling the award winning academy may go or downgrade.
Largely for reasons I've expressed on here before.
Who is the next off the production line likely to attract a fee? RCC?

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 27, 2016

wingy said:
I'm not sure TM is a fan of home produce,thus the import of three players last week.

Although two of those are 'youth'.

Really get the feeling the award winning academy may go or downgrade.

Although yes I agree with this. I reckon we'll go for a strategy of spending some of the cash on scouting others' youth to pick up, instead of bringing it through ourselves.

But... nowt but a feeling

wingy · Mar 27, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Although two of those are 'youth'.

Although yes I agree with this. I reckon we'll go for a strategy of spending some of the cash on scouting others' youth to pick up, instead of bringing it through ourselves.

But... nowt but a feeling

Correct and yes just a feeling or sensing, largely from this season's approach.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 27, 2016

wingy said:
I'm not sure TM is a fan of home produce,thus the import of three players last week.
Really get the feeling the award winning academy may go or downgrade.
Largely for reasons I've expressed on here before.
Who is the next off the production line likely to attract a fee? RCC?

I think a downgrade is almost certain with the developments to the Higgs in the pipeline.

stupot07 · Mar 27, 2016

CCFC said:
I think a downgrade is almost certain with the developments to the Higgs in the pipeline.

Yeah, and that would be such a travesty for an academy rated in the top 10 in the country.

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SlowerThanPlatt · Mar 27, 2016

Downgrading would be disastrous. We'd be in the North West League with Accrington Stanley, Morecambe, Fleetwood, Wrexham etc.

bradwellskyblues · Mar 27, 2016

finch stevenson thomas should all be in a squad before the end of the season

Adge · Mar 27, 2016

bradwellskyblues said:
finch stevenson thomas should all be in a squad before the end of the season

Finch? Come on! He's arse. Still can't see what all the fuss is about with the academy. Burge,Clark,Conor Thomas,Bigi,Haynes-shall I continue?

bradwellskyblues · Mar 27, 2016

you may be correct but mowbray has these games to look at all these players plus others in league action,never forget callum wilson was considered a waste of space and hardly worth a contract we all got that one spot on

SlowerThanPlatt · Mar 27, 2016

Adge said:
Finch? Come on! He's arse. Still can't see what all the fuss is about with the academy. Burge,Clark,Conor Thomas,Bigi,Haynes-shall I continue?

Can I ask what you have against the academy? I'm sure you said you wanted the academy closed down before?

You conveniently forget that the academy has produced three players who have gone on to be sold for a combined fee of £6m in the last two years and without that money we'd be in even more trouble financially.

stupot07 · Mar 27, 2016

Adge said:
Finch? Come on! He's arse. Still can't see what all the fuss is about with the academy. Burge,Clark,Conor Thomas,Bigi,Haynes-shall I continue?

Funny how you omit Wilson, Madison and Christie and actually the fact we got £1m for Bigi is a success.

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Adge · Mar 27, 2016

stupot07 said:
Funny how you omit Wilson, Madison and Christie and actually the fact we got £1m for Bigi is a success.

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Remind me of how many-Wilson apart-have been sold, gone onto the top level and played regularly from our Academy over the last 15-20 years?

Huckerby · Mar 27, 2016

Adge said:
Remind me of how many-Wilson apart-have been sold, gone onto the top level and played regularly from our Academy over the last 15-20 years?

What's playing regularly got to do with anything? If we get paid we get paid

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SlowerThanPlatt · Mar 27, 2016

Adge said:
Remind me of how many-Wilson apart-have been sold, gone onto the top level and played regularly from our Academy over the last 15-20 years?

So, because not many academy graduates have played in the top flight regularly it means having an academy is pointless? By that logic, all but 1 or 2 clubs, should close down their academy's.

The role of the academy manager/the academy is to produce players for the first team.

SlowerThanPlatt · Mar 27, 2016

Huckerby said:
What's playing regularly got to do with anything? If we get paid we get paid

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Exactly. Over the last 10 years:

James Maddison - £2.5m
Callum Wilson - £3m
Gael Bigirimana - £1m
Ben Turner - £750k
Gary McSheffrey - £4m
Cyrus Christie - £300k (?)
Temi Obadeyi - £150k
Daniel Sturridge - £350k (sell on)

And numerous players in the first team.

johnwillomagic · Mar 27, 2016

Personally would not play many yet till we are definitely out - then for last five games maybe get some in?

We have enough young players in and around the starting xi already anyhow. RCC, Maddison, Murphy, Jones, Armstrong
all may start the game after next for instance.

wingy · Mar 27, 2016

SlowerThanPlatt said:
So, because not many academy graduates have played in the top flight regularly it means having an academy is pointless? By that logic, all but 1 or 2 clubs, should close down their academy's.

The role of the academy manager/the academy is to produce players for the first team.

I can't speak for anyone else but it's been strikingly obvious through the early part of the season to me that with the change in management the model has gone a polar opposite to what Pressley was trying to do and that raised questions for me about the discussions /decisions made within the club.
Questions that must be raised when what would have been 3-5% of turnover 4yrs ago is now 10%,or at least 20% of the playing budget.
Nothing been said yet so it may be nothing, but if a manager doesn't utilise it, it could be seen as an expensive vanity project.

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 27, 2016

wingy said:
I can't speak for anyone else but it's been strikingly obvious through the early part of the season to me that with the change in management the model has gone a polar opposite to what Pressley was trying to do and that raised questions for me about the discussions /decisions made within the club.
Questions that must be raised when what would have been 3-5% of turnover 4yrs ago is now 10%,or at least 20% of the playing budget.
Nothing been said yet so it may be nothing, but if a manager doesn't utilise it, it could be seen as an expensive vanity project.

Nope, agree. The change was arguably enacted before Pressley left howver - the sudden influx of experience in the Sixfields transfer window, and then masses of free transfer strikers suggested we were going more instant success then, too.

Adge · Mar 27, 2016

SlowerThanPlatt said:
Exactly. Over the last 10 years:

James Maddison - £2.5m
Callum Wilson - £3m
Gael Bigirimana - £1m
Ben Turner - £750k
Gary McSheffrey - £4m
Cyrus Christie - £300k (?)
Temi Obadeyi - £150k
Daniel Sturridge - £350k (sell on)

And numerous players in the first team.

Sturridge wasn't with our Academy full term and had a lucky escape. So from the above list we have one player who has played at the top table and will again when fit. McSheffrey couldn't cut it and played a handful of games, likewise Bigi and Turner in the Prem. Seems people are happy for the likes of Finch, Thomas. Haynes, Burge, Maddison,Clark,Bigi and the like to be in the first team. So would I if they were any good and would contribute to us as a team moving forward on the pitch. Bottom line is bar the odd Wilson they are never good enough.

wingy · Mar 27, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Nope, agree. The change was arguably enacted before Pressley left howver - the sudden influx of experience in the Sixfields transfer window, and then masses of free transfer strikers suggested we were going more instant success then, too.

Another point around this when weighing up pros and cons.
There is a huge abandoned pool of talent every summer from higher league clubs.
Players from a far higher starting point than we are likely to attract,it shouldn't be beyond the realms to select some of the potential there and still make a profit from an annual or Bi-annual sale.

Adge · Mar 27, 2016

So what you are saying is that you know that they are not good enough to play regularly, but if somebody comes in with a fee that's ok?

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 27, 2016

wingy said:
Another point around this when weighing up pros and cons.
There is a huge abandoned pool of talent every summer from higher league clubs.
Players from a far higher starting point than we are likely to attract,it shouldn't be beyond the realms to select some of the potential there and still make a profit from an annual or Bi-annual sale.

Signing the lower league/non league promising youngsters too, are arguably more driven then those who've been brought up in an environment where they're always 'good' with a secure position, without really having to bust a gut.

The main argument or keeping an academy is as much it doesn't matter if the first team manager on the day is rubbish, the academy goes on. If we end up having to find the best players from other avenues then if the manager picks badly, we could be stuffed.

Then again, if the manager doesn't play anybody in the first team...

Adge · Mar 27, 2016

Strange this season how we also had to go to Newcastle and Liverpool (Arma and Kent) for 2 of their academy players. If ours were any good wouldn't they have been in the team instead of having to go outside our own academy?

Huckerby · Mar 27, 2016

Adge said:
So what you are saying is that you know that they are not good enough to play regularly, but if somebody comes in with a fee that's ok?

Is that a real question?

I don't give a crap to what happens to players after we sell them, unless it's related to a sell on clause.

Transfer fees and player contributions alone determine the success of an academy setup in my opinion. According to slowerthanplatts post we've averaged £1.2 million in transfer fees from just those players, and we've also had teams built largely around academy graduates.

I don't really get your point?

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SlowerThanPlatt · Mar 27, 2016

Adge said:
So what you are saying is that you know that they are not good enough to play regularly, but if somebody comes in with a fee that's ok?

Yes, why wouldn't it be? If Stoke or another Premier League club offered £1m for Jack Finch (who you said was crap), you'd reject it if you was in charge because he isn't ready for the Premier League?

Adge · Mar 27, 2016

SlowerThanPlatt said:
Yes, why wouldn't it be? If Stoke or another Premier League club offered £1m for Jack Finch (who you said was crap), you'd reject it if you was in charge because he isn't ready for the Premier League?

I'd snap there hands off! The point is most of them are never good enough to make it long term at a high level and will drop down the leagues as we have seem all to often. Kevin Thornton another-Andrew Whing, the list goes on. Feel free to add your own at will.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Mar 27, 2016

SlowerThanPlatt said:
Exactly. Over the last 10 years:

James Maddison - £2.5m
Callum Wilson - £3m
Gael Bigirimana - £1m
Ben Turner - £750k
Gary McSheffrey - £4m
Cyrus Christie - £300k (?)
Temi Obadeyi - £150k
Daniel Sturridge - £350k (sell on)

And numerous players in the first team.

Davenport as well was a decent pay day for the club.
...Just over 10 years though...

stupot07 · Mar 27, 2016

CCFC said:
Davenport as well was a decent pay day for the club.

And kirkland. We also got a fee for Grandison I believe?

Did we get anything for Pead or Pipe?

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Huckerby · Mar 27, 2016

Adge said:
I'd snap there hands off! The point is most of them are never good enough to make it long term at a high level and will drop down the leagues as we have seem all to often. Kevin Thornton another-Andrew Whing, the list goes on. Feel free to add your own at will.

And?

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Sky Blue Harry H · Mar 27, 2016

Huckerby said:
And?

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....now, the end is near?

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