Is 'CovBackToRicoh' really a 'LetSisuHaveTheRicoh' Campaign? (1 Viewer)

[shmmeee]

I hate Michael Gove and his stupid rubbery face. Still, I'm not too keen on education full stop really and their "one-size-fits-all" approach to teaching children in primary schools.

Anyway, I feel BOTH sides have power to do something. If either of them will though is a different matter. We're just the poor sods stuck in the middle.

Absolutely agree with you on "one size fits all", listen to this excellent Ken Robinson talk for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

Unfortunately, as a teacher I'm being told to ignore that idea and all existing research so that we can have a system Gove has in his head where kids all do the same thing and learn by rote.

And with the meeting of CCFC and education policy I'm out of here before my blood pressure explodes

 

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[NorthernWisdom]

I know you have a different view, but surely you can agree that there are more CCFC fans in ACL/CCC/Higgs than in Sisu?

I genuinely think it's unhelpful to look at who has the most city fans in which organisation. Could be argued for example that Mutton in particular let his passion for the club cloud his judgement, it meant he kept uttering totally, totally unhelpful statements that just exacerbated the divide, and contributed to no end of trouble as a result. The best hope of resolution from that particular angle came when he was replaced, as nobody could be quite so bludgeoning, inept and confrontational for no purpose as him.

Then of course we have City fan Geoffrey Robinson MP, whose decisions were always in the best interests of the club...

Sometimes, calling out how you support a club can be an easy mask to hide behind in an attempt to dodge calls of ineptitude/self interest/lack of wherewithal etc. Of course in an ideal world you want somebody who cares about the club, but caring and competence can be two separate things. Give me a competent CEO who's no City fan, ahead of an incompetent one who is any day.

 

[valiant15]

Sisu don't want to sell the club and the council don't want to sell the Ricoh. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? The council DO NOT have to sell the arena if they don't want to.

Sisu say they're going to build a new ground. Why don't you rabid acl/council haters start asking questions about when this is going to start happening?

Sisu left, walked out, done one, fucked off whatever,its got nothing to do with the council/acl anymore. Why should they chase after sisu? Sisu should be begging them to let them back in.

Best of luck with the poxy council house protest, im sure the 2 or 3 that turn up will make an impact.

 

[shmmeee]

I genuinely think it's unhelpful to look at who has the most city fans in which organisation. Could be argued for example that Mutton in particular let his passion for the club cloud his judgement, it meant he kept uttering totally, totally unhelpful statements that just exacerbated the divide, and contributed to no end of trouble as a result. The best hope of resolution from that particular angle came when he was replaced, as nobody could be quite so bludgeoning, inept and confrontational for no purpose as him.

Then of course we have City fan Geoffrey Robinson MP, whose decisions were always in the best interests of the club...

Sometimes, calling out how you support a club can be an easy mask to hide behind in an attempt to dodge calls of ineptitude/self interest/lack of wherewithal etc. Of course in an ideal world you want somebody who cares about the club, but caring and competence can be two separate things. Give me a competent CEO who's no City fan, ahead of an incompetent one who is any day.

Sorry I think you've gone slightly off base here. I was responding to a post saying why do I believe ACL/CCC/Higgs give a shit about fans when Sisu don't, my answer was because they are fans. I'm not talking about blame for the situation or tactics employed, which I think we can all agree were not the best in hindsight.

However, I still believe that because of this nucleus of CCFC fans in the organisation (coupled with the need to actually be liked by Coventry residents) CCC/ACL would never have kicked the club out, whereas Sisu has no such qualms moving us out.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

It's just as valid a point to say that CCC should sell as it is to say Sisu should rent.

For me though, the fact that repeatedly Sisu representatives have flat out refused to talk when asked says it all for me. Lucas has written to Seppala, the Trust have written to Seppala, Seppala has ignored both. The Trust have contacted ACL/CCC and had talks (obviously Lucas already talks to ACL/CCC).

You could argue the Trust taking a partial position didn't do themselves any favours with the latter. Their current position is the one they should have adopted from the start, as sometimes it's better to let people show their hand then give them that mask to hide behind. In this case, we'll maybe never know if they'd have still ignored them without that initial gambit.

As it stands however, the clock is re-set, and if the trust continually make efforts to engage, and no engagement is done, then the results will eventually speak for themselves without the need to push as has been done.

Incidentally, much as this campaign group came across well on the radio yesterday, so did a certain Trust board member That Trust board member must know better than most however that sometimes to get what you want means playing the long game rather than bludgeoning in, so hopefully he's part of the new direction also... I'm sure for better or worse he's also aware that given his previous background, he's going to struggle to convince certain owners of his neutrality in such things and there's an added hurdle needed to jump through there, whatever his actual competencies.

 

[torchomatic]

Our seven-year-old goes to an "outstanding" school and I actually think it is the worse environment for him and many of his fellow pupils. The school is more intent on keeping that coveted title than actually getting the best out of ALL pupils not just the brightest ones. Parents evening this week so I'm ready!

I'll take a look at that video, thanks.

Absolutely agree with you on "one size fits all", listen to this excellent Ken Robinson talk for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

Unfortunately, as a teacher I'm being told to ignore that idea and all existing research so that we can have a system Gove has in his head where kids all do the same thing and learn by rote.

And with the meeting of CCFC and education policy I'm out of here before my blood pressure explodes

 

[torchomatic]

So we stay at Sixfields then?

Sisu don't want to sell the club and the council don't want to sell the Ricoh. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? The council DO NOT have to sell the arena if they don't want to.

 

[shmmeee]

You could argue the Trust taking a partial position didn't do themselves any favours with the latter. Their current position is the one they should have adopted from the start, as sometimes it's better to let people show their hand then give them that mask to hide behind. In this case, we'll maybe never know if they'd have still ignored them without that initial gambit.

As it stands however, the clock is re-set, and if the trust continually make efforts to engage, and no engagement is done, then the results will eventually speak for themselves without the need to push as has been done.

Incidentally, much as this campaign group came across well on the radio yesterday, so did a certain Trust board member That Trust board member must know better than most however that sometimes to get what you want means playing the long game rather than bludgeoning in, so hopefully he's part of the new direction also... I'm sure for better or worse he's also aware that given his previous background, he's going to struggle to convince certain owners of his neutrality in such things and there's an added hurdle needed to jump through there, whatever his actual competencies.

I cannot and will not speak for that certain board member (just had to check that he was actually on the radio cos I didn't know!).

I use the Trust as an example because they are the biggest supporters group, like it or not and because they have stated repeatedly that they have tried to talk to all sides. But the same applied to CCC.

 

[valiant15]

So we stay at Sixfields then?

It looks like it.
The Ricoh is history. Why can't you get that in your head? Why don't you start asking questions about when the building work for the new ground will start?

 

[RPHunt]

So we stay at Sixfields then?

It's up to your pals at SISU. Either they build a new stadium or ask ACL for a lease at the Ricoh - it's not difficult is it?

 

[valiant15]

And its about time you got rid of the childish slogan. Acl are nothing to do with ccfc anymore.

 

[torchomatic]

Val, I wish I could get it into my head. However, I don't want to as I know I'll never see CIty again. I don't think they'll EVER be a new ground. It's SISU bullshit. However, I think ACLs talk of a new "sports franchise" is also bullshit. Both sides need each other. I think they know that. It's getting to a point of reconciliation that is proving to be an enormous stumbling block.

It looks like it.
The Ricoh is history. Why can't you get that in your head? Why don't you start asking questions about when the building work for the new ground will start?

 

[torchomatic]

True. I'll do that now. Just for you.

And its about time you got rid of the childish slogan. Acl are nothing to do with ccfc anymore.

 

[shmmeee]

Our seven-year-old goes to an "outstanding" school and I actually think it is the worse environment for him and many of his fellow pupils. The school is more intent on keeping that coveted title than actually getting the best out of ALL pupils not just the brightest ones. Parents evening this week so I'm ready!

I'll take a look at that video, thanks.

As a teacher I've said before I'd never send my child to an Outstanding school for just that reason. In fact I'm currently struggling with picking my own daughter's Primary, though I wonder if that's because I see inside the system. I'd be interested to see how many GPs are with Bupa for example. I imagine that a certain amount of ignorance is bliss.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I cannot and will not speak for that certain board member .

Wouldn't ask nor expect you to. It seemed an apt place to stick that in however whilst also showing how needless outing each other, our qualifications, jobs and family relations would be as it would colour how they were responded to...

 

[shmmeee]

Val, I wish I could get it into my head. However, I don't want to as I know I'll never see CIty again. I don't think they'll EVER be a new ground. It's SISU bullshit. However, I think ACLs talk of a new "sports franchise" is also bullshit. Both sides need each other. I think they know that. It's getting to a point of reconciliation that is proving to be an enormous stumbling block.

I think we're stumbling towards it ever so slowly. But that may just be the eternal optimist that all City fans need to stave off suicide!

 

[valiant15]

Val, I wish I could get it into my head. However, I don't want to as I know I'll never see CIty again. I don't think they'll EVER be a new ground. It's SISU bullshit. However, I think ACLs talk of a new "sports franchise" is also bullshit. Both sides need each other. I think they know that. It's getting to a point of reconciliation that is proving to be an enormous stumbling block.

I didn't want to either but ive had no choice but to except it. There's no chance they'll sell to them. Im just preying acl leave the ground alone and sisu get bored and leave.

 

[shmmeee]

I'd have rather this was done under the auspices of the Trust though. There *are* ways to not take sides one against the other, yet still draw attention to this. As it stands, we have yet another campaign group, yet another sparsely attended demo in all likelihood, yet another signal fewer people care than should be given out.

Missed this post. I fully agree and made my feeling made known at the last open Trust meeting, as did several others. I also get frustrated that at times they don't share things about Sisu as publicly as they could in the name of staying neutral, so it cuts both ways.

This new group frustrates me for that exact reason and I'd like to know a little more about where it came from and how it was formed. The timing of it and support from the likes of Sinclaire and Reid makes me suspicious.

 

[valiant15]

The sports franchise is a load of bollocks,I agree 100%.

 

[RPHunt]

Before anyone dismisses talk of another franchise at the Ricoh, take a look at the packed stadiums for the RFU Heineken cup matches this weekend including 60,000 at Wembley for Saracens.

I have said before, with a little investment there is no reason why Coventry RFC should not be competing at that level, but it won't happen while they are at the Butts. They have, at the moment, a unique opportunity to secure a stadium to compete at that level and if the club could find a backer there is a very realistic alternative to CCFC at the Ricoh.

 

[shmmeee]

Before anyone dismisses talk of another franchise at the Ricoh, take a look at the packed stadiums for the RFU Heineken cup matches this weekend including 60,000 at Wembley for Saracens.

I have said before, with a little investment there is no reason why Coventry RFC should not be competing at that level, but it won't happen while they are at the Butts. They have, at the moment, a unique opportunity to secure a stadium to compete at that level and if the club could find a backer there is a very realistic alternative to CCFC at the Ricoh.

If this was viable, why not move them there when City were there? Lots of football clubs share with a rubgy team? Honest question, I'd always assumed that Cov were just not big enough for the Ricoh.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Missed this post. I fully agree and made my feeling made known at the last open Trust meeting, as did several others.

We'll see if the 4th November is one I can actually get to... and if I'm brave enough to speak rather than write

There are certain things I do know.

I can have my own views about the appropriateness of our owners;

I can have my own views about a stadium management company and how that fits into the club anyway.

I do know that at the end of the day, campaigning for the latter over the former doesn;t help the club long term either. You yourself said the club shouldn't return to the Ricoh at all costs and you're right. That also means making sure the club isn't held over a barrel to return at all costs either, as otherwise the decreasing circles start again.

I do know that at the moment they're not talking as far as I know. I also know that it's very unlikely that any campaign to get them to do so will have one side rush to the phone. I do know taking sides certainly won't have this effect, and will give excuses for whoever's to 'blame' and give them a get-out clause.

It's where a pressure group pressuring all sides just to talk, and reminding us the club's in the wrong place is no bad thing on a philosophical level. I do think it's unhelpful going solo however, it disperses attention. Saying 'hang on, we're the fans of the club' doesn't mean taking sides after all.

 

[SonOfSnoz]

Holding a question time session would be too successful & easy, which is why it will never happen!
Agree with Acl having more CCFC supporters than Sisu/Otium.

If Ricoh ever went to Sisu, I hope a watertight contract is drawn up stating that CCFC & Ricoh are one, as what's stopping Sisu stick CCFC in one company & Ricoh in another associated & then charging a whopping rent bringing it back to square one!

 

[NorthernWisdom]

If this was viable, why not move them there when City were there? Lots of football clubs share with a rubgy team? Honest question, I'd always assumed that Cov were just not big enough for the Ricoh.

Yeah they played one game there when they were locked out off the Butts (after a previous owner was so incompetent he couldn't even wind them up properly!) think they only opened one stand.

In a wider sense, it's why more than one venue is always necessary though. If CCFC had to start again wa-ay down the pyramid, the Ricoh would be laughably too big for them, that's where the Butts comes in. Conversely, if Cov Rugby ever did become successful, there's a ready made option for the bigger games out there!

The thought chills me just as much however, moving an esrablished club from elsewhere into Coventry, and killing off the club that's already there as a result...

 

[torchomatic]

Before he started we were made up as he'd got into such as "good" school, but boy do I regret it now. Ah well.

As a teacher I've said before I'd never send my child to an Outstanding school for just that reason. In fact I'm currently struggling with picking my own daughter's Primary, though I wonder if that's because I see inside the system. I'd be interested to see how many GPs are with Bupa for example. I imagine that a certain amount of ignorance is bliss.

 

[torchomatic]

I would hope they would do that anyway with whoever was in charge. SISU aren't the only shark in the sea.

If Ricoh ever went to Sisu, I hope a watertight contract is drawn up stating that CCFC & Ricoh are one, as what's stopping Sisu stick CCFC in one company & Ricoh in another associated & then charging a whopping rent bringing it back to square one!

 

[SonOfSnoz]

The day the council took the football club hostage was a sad day!
No ransom, sorry Ranson, could help!

 

[torchomatic]

Two words spring to mind. Incompetence and greed.

The day the council took the football club hostage was a sad day!
No ransom, sorry Ranson, could help!

 

[SonOfSnoz]

Two words spring to mind. Incompetence and greed.

Works both ways! Council & Sisu are both bad as each other!

 

[torchomatic]

Definitely interchangeable.

Works both ways! Council & Sisu are both bad as each other!

 

[shmmeee]

We'll see if the 4th November is one I can actually get to... and if I'm brave enough to speak rather than write

There are certain things I do know.

I can have my own views about the appropriateness of our owners;

I can have my own views about a stadium management company and how that fits into the club anyway.

I do know that at the end of the day, campaigning for the latter over the former doesn;t help the club long term either. You yourself said the club shouldn't return to the Ricoh at all costs and you're right. That also means making sure the club isn't held over a barrel to return at all costs either, as otherwise the decreasing circles start again.

I do know that at the moment they're not talking as far as I know. I also know that it's very unlikely that any campaign to get them to do so will have one side rush to the phone. I do know taking sides certainly won't have this effect, and will give excuses for whoever's to 'blame' and give them a get-out clause.

It's where a pressure group pressuring all sides just to talk, and reminding us the club's in the wrong place is no bad thing on a philosophical level. I do think it's unhelpful going solo however, it disperses attention. Saying 'hang on, we're the fans of the club' doesn't mean taking sides after all.

That's what frustrates me, I felt that the Trust had finally started to get the balance right, *were/are* pressuring all sides to talk, and then this lot come along with a load of emotive language and factual inaccuracies with no regard for what has gone before. Let's be honest here a group pressuring CCC to sell to Sisu is probably the least balanced of them all so far. There's just no need for it. If the guy is a Trust member then engage with the Trust, find out what's already been done, don't just wade in in what strikes me as either guided by those on Sisu's side of the fence at worst and self-aggrandising at best.

The Trust's position for a long time has been that which you ask for. There is a very simple reason they have ACL/CCC's side more than Sisu's and that's because they're the only ones who will talk. If Sisu want the Trust to have a more balanced view, they could do worse than actually putting that view across to them. To instead hand pick fans (who later turn up as an anti-council group) journalists (who later run anti-council articles) and politicians (who suddenly turn anti-council) is disingenuous IMO.

The last few weeks we've actually been looking more unified as a fanbase IMO (I even agreed with Grendel once!) and this (and Les Reid's articles) just moves us back to the "us and them" rhetoric which has been so unhelpful.

 

[shmmeee]

Definitely interchangeable.

Very hard to ask this without it sounding like a loaded question, but I hope you take it in the manner it's intended:

What would you like the Council to do now? Not asking about things that have been done, but moving forward, what should we as fans be asking them to do?

Edit: Personally, the only thing I can think of (apart from the frankly ridiculous request to sell the Ricoh at a loss) is to ask that the Ricoh bowl is split from the rest of the complex and made available for sale (props to fernandopartridge on this idea).

 

[NorthernWisdom]

That's what frustrates me, I felt that the Trust had finally started to get the balance right, *were/are* pressuring all sides to talk, and then this lot come along with a load of emotive language and factual inaccuracies with no regard for what has gone before.

I know it's a no-win, but I do think the trust went to the other extreme however, and this is maybe why a group would spring up out of impatience. The Trust's language has certainly improved, the statements have been better... but their silence over any kind of demonstration linked to the Sheffield Utd game was immensely frustrating (again, didn't have to take sides!) and they almost went overly apologetic about ribbons and the like!

As I say, it's a difficult balancing act, and the statements certainly are better than they were (someone's got control over who actually publishes them?) but they've also faded into the background a little over-much.

 

[shmmeee]

I know it's a no-win, but I do think the trust went to the other extreme however, and this is maybe why a group would spring up out of impatience. The Trust's language has certainly improved, the statements have been better... but their silence over any kind of demonstration linked to the Sheffield Utd game was immensely frustrating (again, didn't have to take sides!) and they almost went overly apologetic about ribbons and the like!

As I say, it's a difficult balancing act, and the statements certainly are better than they were (someone's got control over who actually publishes them?) but they've also faded into the background a little over-much.

I don't think it's just the Trust that can be blamed for Sheff Utd, no-one knew what to do. It was a bit like when you get a chance to talk to that girl you've been eying up for months and all you come out with is "bglarble garble". You're brain is so overloaded with possibilities nothing of use comes out (or mine does anyway).

It's all calibration, they were too anti-Sisu at first, too quiet next, but they are getting there. The point still stands though, why not try and engage the Trust before starting this campaign up?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

The point still stands though, why not try and engage the Trust before starting this campaign up?

I'm not disagreeing with you here, although in their defence the bloke on the radio last night said they did approach the Trust, and their view was 'if you want to do it, by all means go for it but we're not getting involved' (forgive the paraphrasing of remembering last night's phone-in, if wrong give me a thousand virtual beatings ).

Now personally I'd have hoped the Trust's view would have been more 'come along to our next meeting, then if you still decide you want to go ahead with it do' and maybe it was and something got lost in translation, but nonetheless...