Investment? £15m nominal value (5 Viewers)

Forums New posts
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
procdoc said:
Why are we arguing about this
Click to expand...
‘It’s who we are, mate’

Merry Christmas GIF by Celtic Football Club
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
Read my post again. I never said the debts owed to the owner were the reason.

If you’re in administration then all debt payments are clearly unmanageable, otherwise you wouldn’t be in administration.
Click to expand...

It wasn’t. The debt was old debt and no one knew whoever owned the club anyway.

The debt was acclimated interst and never paid. The club went into administration as it refused to pay as a deliberate strategy and the council forced the club into administration.
 
Sky Blue Goblin

Sky Blue Goblin

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
It wasn’t. The debt was old debt and no one knew whoever owned the club anyway.

The debt was acclimated interst and never paid. The club went into administration as it refused to pay as a deliberate strategy and the council forced the club into administration.
Click to expand...
If I’m Remembering right, Didn’t Sisu put the club into administration as ACL were trying to push us into administration to collect rent cost. That way Sisu got to pick the administrator?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Goblin said:
If I’m Remembering right, Didn’t Sisu put the club into administration as ACL were trying to push us into administration to collect rent cost. That way Sisu got to pick the administrator?
Click to expand...

Yes that’s correct
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
It wasn’t. The debt was old debt and no one knew whoever owned the club anyway.

The debt was acclimated interst and never paid. The club went into administration as it refused to pay as a deliberate strategy and the council forced the club into administration.
Click to expand...
Having unmanageable debts is a breach of EFL rules. You have to submit business plans each year along with company financial statements that demonstrate this.

If a company is in administration then they obviously cannot service their debts. So is a breach of rules as there’s no way you could argue against it.

Completely different scenarios and would in no way be applicable here.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
Having unmanageable debts is a breach of EFL rules. You have to submit business plans each year along with company financial statements that demonstrate this.

If a company is in administration then creditors have enforced this due to the company not being able to service their debts. So is a breach of rules as there’s no way you could argue against it.

Completely different scenarios and would in no way be applicable here.
Click to expand...

I honestly don’t get your point.

The club could service its debts. This was never disputed by anybody when the court case started. The club deliberately refused to pay the rent and raised in the high court that the council itself was complicit in the decision making. There was never a suggestion the club couldn’t pay if it wanted to.

The debt the club had at the time was historical up debt which was a paper exercise rolled into SBSL

The club went to Northampton and I think then had an equity injection so it could still operate and pay its bills on gates of 2,000
 
PUSB-We_are_going_up

PUSB-We_are_going_up

Well-Known Member
I asked GEMINI AI and it came with this:


The images you provided are parts of a Companies House form SH01 (ef) - Return of Allotment of Shares. This form is used in the UK to notify Companies House about new shares allotted by a company.

Let's break down what each part means:

IMG_2813.jpg (Page 1 of 3):

  • Header: Identifies the form as "SH01 (ef) Return of Allotment of Shares" and shows it's from Companies House.
  • Company Name: COVCITYCO LTD
  • Company Number: 14513443
  • Received for filing in Electronic Format on the: 04/06/2025 (This indicates the date the form was submitted to Companies House).
  • Shares Allotted (including bonus shares):
    • Date or period during which shares are allotted: From 22/05/2025 (This is the date the shares were allotted).
    • Class of Shares: ORDINARY A SHARES
    • Currency: GBP
    • Number allotted: 1222222 (This is the total number of shares of this class that were allotted on this date).
    • Nominal value of each share: 12.27273 (This is the face value or par value of each individual share).
    • Amount paid: 12.27273 (This indicates that the shares were fully paid for at their nominal value).
    • Amount unpaid: 0 (Confirms no amount is unpaid).
    • No shares allotted other than for cash: This statement implies that these shares were allotted for cash.
IMG_2812.jpg (Page 2 of 3):

  • Statement of Capital (Share Capital):This section details the company's share capital after the allotment.
    • Class of Shares:ORDINARY A SHARES
      • Number allotted: 1222222
      • Aggregate nominal value: 15000000.606 (This is the total nominal value of all ORDINARY A SHARES: 1222222 shares * 12.27273 nominal value per share = 15,000,000.606).
      • Currency: GBP
      • Prescribed particulars: "THE SHARES HAVE ATTACHED TO THEM FULL VOTING, DIVIDEND AND CAPITAL DISTRIBUTION (INCLUDING ON WINDING UP) RIGHTS; THEY DO NOT CONFER ANY RIGHTS OF REDEMPTION." This describes the rights associated with the Ordinary A shares. They have voting rights, dividend rights, and rights to capital distribution upon winding up, but they are not redeemable.
    • Another Class of Shares (likely existing capital or another allotment):
      • Class of Shares: ORDINARY A
      • Number allotted: 11000000
      • Aggregate nominal value: 11000000
      • Currency: GBP
      • Prescribed particulars: "THE SHARES HAVE ATTACHED TO THEM FULL VOTING, DIVIDEND AND CAPITAL DISTRIBUTION (INCLUDING ON WINDING UP) RIGHTS; THEY DO NOT CONFER ANY RIGHTS OF REDEMPTION." Similar rights as the previous Ordinary A shares.
IMG_2811.png (Page 3 of 3):

  • Statement of Capital (Totals):This provides an overall summary of the company's share capital.
    • Total number of shares: 12222222 (This is the sum of the "Number allotted" from both entries on Page 2: 1222222 + 11000000 = 12222222).
    • Total aggregate nominal value: 15110000.606 (This is the sum of the "Aggregate nominal value" from both entries on Page 2: 15000000.606 + 1100000 = 15,110,000.606).
    • Total aggregate amount unpaid: 0 (Confirms no amount is unpaid across all shares).
  • Authorisation:This section indicates who is authorized to sign off on this form.
    • "This form was authorised by one of the following: Director, Secretary, Person Authorised, Administrator, Administrative Receiver, Receiver, Receiver Manager, CIC Manager."
In summary, these images mean:

COVCITYCO LTD (Company Number: 14513443) filed a return to Companies House on June 4, 2025, to report that it allotted 1,222,222 new Ordinary A shares on May 22, 2025. Each of these new shares has a nominal (par) value of £12.27273 and was fully paid for.

After this allotment, the company's total share capital consists of 12,222,222 Ordinary A shares with a total nominal value of £15,110,000.606. All these shares carry full voting, dividend, and capital distribution rights but are not redeemable. The form also confirms that all shares are fully paid up.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I honestly don’t get your point.

The club could service its debts. This was never disputed by anybody when the court case started. The club deliberately refused to pay the rent and raised in the high court that the council itself was complicit in the decision making. There was never a suggestion the club couldn’t pay if it wanted to.

The debt the club had at the time was historical up debt which was a paper exercise rolled into SBSL

The club went to Northampton and I think then had an equity injection so it could still operate and pay its bills on gates of 2,000
Click to expand...

Correct, CCFC Ltd had no unsecured creditors outside of debts within the group and ACL.
 
S

Snaily

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
Correct, CCFC Ltd had no unsecured creditors outside of debts within the group and ACL.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t this view depend on the separation of club and owners. Audit reports always stated that club was dependent on ongoing finance from owners. So the Club itself could not service debts and ongoing liabilities, unless the owners kept committing to injecting finance. Which effectively meant the owners could choose to take the club into administration
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Snaily said:
Doesn’t this view depend on the separation of club and owners. Audit reports always stated that club was dependent on ongoing finance from owners. So the Club itself could not service debts and ongoing liabilities, unless the owners kept committing to injecting finance. Which effectively meant the owners could choose to take the club into administration
Click to expand...

That applies to every club I would think in football
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Snaily said:
Dependent on whether any net positive transfer revenue is enough for such a commitment not to be required
Click to expand...

No it’s a generic statement for any club whose balance sheet is insolvent - net transfer fees lol
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I honestly don’t get your point.

The club could service its debts. This was never disputed by anybody when the court case started. The club deliberately refused to pay the rent and raised in the high court that the council itself was complicit in the decision making. There was never a suggestion the club couldn’t pay if it wanted to.

The debt the club had at the time was historical up debt which was a paper exercise rolled into SBSL

The club went to Northampton and I think then had an equity injection so it could still operate and pay its bills on gates of 2,000
Click to expand...
Your original post said that the EFL rules meant that we could not exit administration unless the debts were converted to equity. I agree this is probably correct.

But, if you are in administration, regardless of who the debt is owed to, you cannot service it. It’s an insolvency procedure. If you were solvent (afford to pay the debts as they fall due) there would be no administration. So in order to not breach EFL rules, and be able exit administration the debt was required to be converted (written off).

My point was that it’s not comparable to now. DK could lump as much debt as he like as long as the debt is ‘manageable’. As long as creditors are paid on time there’s nothing the EFL could do about it, as long as we don’t breach PSR.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
Your original post said that the EFL rules meant that we could not exit administration unless the debts were converted to equity. I agree this is probably correct.

But, if you are in administration, regardless of who the debt is owed to, you cannot service it. It’s an insolvency procedure. If you were solvent (afford to pay the debts as they fall due) there would be no administration. So in order to not breach EFL rules, and be able exit administration the debt was required to be converted (written off).

My point was that it’s not comparable to now. DK could lump as much debt as he like as long as the debt is ‘manageable’. As long as creditors are paid on time there’s nothing the EFL could do about it, as long as we don’t breach PSR.
Click to expand...

There was no debt. It was a deliberate strategy to refuse to pay to bust ACL - the actual debt owned to ARVO and SMF remained
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
PUSB-We_are_going_up said:
I asked GEMINI AI and it came with this:


The images you provided are parts of a Companies House form SH01 (ef) - Return of Allotment of Shares. This form is used in the UK to notify Companies House about new shares allotted by a company.

Let's break down what each part means:

IMG_2813.jpg (Page 1 of 3):

  • Header: Identifies the form as "SH01 (ef) Return of Allotment of Shares" and shows it's from Companies House.
  • Company Name: COVCITYCO LTD
  • Company Number: 14513443
  • Received for filing in Electronic Format on the: 04/06/2025 (This indicates the date the form was submitted to Companies House).
  • Shares Allotted (including bonus shares):
    • Date or period during which shares are allotted: From 22/05/2025 (This is the date the shares were allotted).
    • Class of Shares: ORDINARY A SHARES
    • Currency: GBP
    • Number allotted: 1222222 (This is the total number of shares of this class that were allotted on this date).
    • Nominal value of each share: 12.27273 (This is the face value or par value of each individual share).
    • Amount paid: 12.27273 (This indicates that the shares were fully paid for at their nominal value).
    • Amount unpaid: 0 (Confirms no amount is unpaid).
    • No shares allotted other than for cash: This statement implies that these shares were allotted for cash.
IMG_2812.jpg (Page 2 of 3):

  • Statement of Capital (Share Capital):This section details the company's share capital after the allotment.
    • Class of Shares:ORDINARY A SHARES
      • Number allotted: 1222222
      • Aggregate nominal value: 15000000.606 (This is the total nominal value of all ORDINARY A SHARES: 1222222 shares * 12.27273 nominal value per share = 15,000,000.606).
      • Currency: GBP
      • Prescribed particulars: "THE SHARES HAVE ATTACHED TO THEM FULL VOTING, DIVIDEND AND CAPITAL DISTRIBUTION (INCLUDING ON WINDING UP) RIGHTS; THEY DO NOT CONFER ANY RIGHTS OF REDEMPTION." This describes the rights associated with the Ordinary A shares. They have voting rights, dividend rights, and rights to capital distribution upon winding up, but they are not redeemable.
    • Another Class of Shares (likely existing capital or another allotment):
      • Class of Shares: ORDINARY A
      • Number allotted: 11000000
      • Aggregate nominal value: 11000000
      • Currency: GBP
      • Prescribed particulars: "THE SHARES HAVE ATTACHED TO THEM FULL VOTING, DIVIDEND AND CAPITAL DISTRIBUTION (INCLUDING ON WINDING UP) RIGHTS; THEY DO NOT CONFER ANY RIGHTS OF REDEMPTION." Similar rights as the previous Ordinary A shares.
IMG_2811.png (Page 3 of 3):

  • Statement of Capital (Totals):This provides an overall summary of the company's share capital.
    • Total number of shares: 12222222 (This is the sum of the "Number allotted" from both entries on Page 2: 1222222 + 11000000 = 12222222).
    • Total aggregate nominal value: 15110000.606 (This is the sum of the "Aggregate nominal value" from both entries on Page 2: 15000000.606 + 1100000 = 15,110,000.606).
    • Total aggregate amount unpaid: 0 (Confirms no amount is unpaid across all shares).
  • Authorisation:This section indicates who is authorized to sign off on this form.
    • "This form was authorised by one of the following: Director, Secretary, Person Authorised, Administrator, Administrative Receiver, Receiver, Receiver Manager, CIC Manager."
In summary, these images mean:

COVCITYCO LTD (Company Number: 14513443) filed a return to Companies House on June 4, 2025, to report that it allotted 1,222,222 new Ordinary A shares on May 22, 2025. Each of these new shares has a nominal (par) value of £12.27273 and was fully paid for.

After this allotment, the company's total share capital consists of 12,222,222 Ordinary A shares with a total nominal value of £15,110,000.606. All these shares carry full voting, dividend, and capital distribution rights but are not redeemable. The form also confirms that all shares are fully paid up.
Click to expand...
I asked Gemini AI to describe what's going on in my brain right now in regard to this thread

I got this...


download (1).jpeg
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
There was no debt. It was a deliberate strategy to refuse to pay to bust ACL - the actual debt owned to ARVO and SMF remained
Click to expand...
Grendel said:
When Sisu piled on debts against the club the FL I’m sure at one point forced them to turn the debt into shares - which effectively meant the debt was lost as the shares were never saleable.

It avoided a breach of FL rules without which we could not come out of administration.

The most likely explanation is Kings funding source has invested funds and this does not breach FL rules
Click to expand...
Which one is it?
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
SHUNT31 said:
Which one is it?
Click to expand...

It went something like this. In CCFC Ltd, SISU via Arvo had a circa £10m fixed and floating charge over the assets, Arvo put CCFC into administration. CCFC Ltd also had debts to the other groups in the CCFC group of companies (SSSL (parent) and CCFCH Ltd (subsidiary)) totaling something like £49m.

After the administration and transfer of CCFC Ltd assets to OEG, those debts to other companies in the group were swapped for equity in the new co OEG as preference shares issued to SISU.
 
SHUNT31

SHUNT31

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
It went something like this. In CCFC Ltd, SISU via Arvo had a circa £10m fixed and floating charge over the assets, Arvo put CCFC into administration. CCFC Ltd also had debts to the other groups in the CCFC group of companies (SSSL (parent) and CCFCH Ltd (subsidiary)) totaling something like £49m.

After the administration and transfer of CCFC Ltd assets to OEG, those debts to other companies in the group were swapped for equity in the new co OEG as preference shares issued to SISU.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I was only 18 or so at the time so did not really take an interest in what was happening, just knew it was all a mess.

I assume this is the debt for equity swap Grendel was referencing?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 6 (members: 1, guests: 5)
Top