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Injuries (11 Viewers)

  • Thread starter shmmeee
  • Start date Jan 23, 2023
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #36
PVA said:
So if it wasn't movement or pace that caused the defence problems what was it?
Click to expand...

Well for a start as robins stated he played a flat back 4 - so who in that formation would have Panzo replaced? Doyle I assume. That’s interesting in itself
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #37
Grendel said:
Well for a start as robins stated he played a flat back 4 - so who in that formation would have Panzo replaced? Doyle I assume. That’s interesting in itself
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with my question?

I never mentioned Robins, Panzo or back four.
 
Reactions: Londonccfcfan

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #38
PVA said:
What does that have to do with my question?

I never mentioned Robins, Panzo or back four.
Click to expand...

so formation doesn’t count in the discussion? Oh ok so where would Panzo have been playing then?
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #39
Grendel said:
so formation doesn’t count in the discussion? Oh ok so where would Panzo have been playing then?
Click to expand...

I literally never mentioned Panzo or said he should have played so I have no idea what you're on about.
 
Reactions: Londonccfcfan

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #40
PVA said:
I literally never mentioned Panzo or said he should have played so I have no idea what you're on about.
Click to expand...

well the problem really was Cuffey - someone who laughingly praised - was pathetically out his depth and left us hopelessly exposed - he was utter shite - we were exposed time and time again - @Deleted member 9744 thinks the inept Panzo would have helped
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #41
Grendel said:
well the problem really was Cuffey - someone who laughingly praised - was pathetically out his depth and left us hopelessly exposed - he was utter shite - we were exposed time and time again - @Deleted member 9744 thinks the inept Panzo would have helped
Click to expand...

Well actually 3 of the 4 goals came down our left. Stewarded by your beloved Allen and Bidwell.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #42
PVA said:
Well actually 3 of the 4 goals came down our left. Stewarded by your beloved Allen and Bidwell.
Click to expand...

My beloved, Jesus Christ

Well guess you have a theory not many others have

No apology for the racist rubbish either
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #43
So guys, injuries…
 
Reactions: Otis
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #44
Grendel said:
My beloved, Jesus Christ

Well guess you have a theory not many others have

No apology for the racist rubbish either
Click to expand...

It's not a theory, it's a fact - 3 of the 4 goals came down the left.

I'm not saying Cuffey or Dabo played well, because they didn't.
 
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #45
Grendel said:
well the problem really was Cuffey - someone who laughingly praised - was pathetically out his depth and left us hopelessly exposed - he was utter shite - we were exposed time and time again - @Deleted member 9744 thinks the inept Panzo would have helped
Click to expand...
Panzo would have been far more use than Kane and Waghorn in my view. But what do any if us know? Maybe Waghorn is a still a great Championship player. It's all a matter if subjective opinions and I doubt any if us have played or managed the game at this level.

Just to add I would be amazed if Norton Cuffey doesn't play at a higher level than Waghorn over the next two years.
 

itsabuzzard

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #46
shmmeee said:
So guys, injuries…
Click to expand...
Hats off for trying.

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: OldBedrocker, DazzleTommyDazzle and shmmeee
D

Deleted member 9744

Guest
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #47
Grendel said:
To be fair you and PVA are a meeting of minds both sportingly and politically

Jim Kerr named a band after the pair of you
Click to expand...
I suspect there are quite a lot of differences in our political views btw. Not being a Tory covers quite a lot of political territory.
 
Reactions: PVA
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #48
Grendel said:
Waghorn has a career that has championship standard branded on it. Panzo has terrible ball watching qualities - not seeing anything there to be honest

I’m certainly not yet seeing any merit in dumping Kane at all
Click to expand...
Any merit was financial. I assumed when we let one of two fit forwards leave the club that we had someone ready to replace him. It turns out we're hoping that Godden and Walker can stay fit and do the business.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #49
Godden and Walker are clearly better than Waghorn. Just have to hope they can get back up to speed quickly.

The good thing is that (as long as Vik stays) they won't need to start anytime soon so can build up fitness and minutes from the bench.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #50
U21 game tomorrow so surely some minutes for them?
 
Reactions: Otis
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #51
Nick said:
U21 game tomorrow so surely some minutes for them?
Click to expand...

Possibly a bit too soon? They only returned to full training today so I'd imagine they'd have a week of full training, possible few mins off the bench at the weekend then 21s next week maybe
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #52
Grendel said:
My beloved, Jesus Christ

Well guess you have a theory not many others have

No apology for the racist rubbish either
Click to expand...

You've never apologised for these...

Do you want to discuss boring politics?

That's the trouble. Those that get involved tend to treat it like a game, because for them it doesn't matter. Whatever happens they'll still have a sweet life. Football is a game. Hungry fucking Hippos is a game. Politics is what decides what kind of life millions of people will have. That is...
www.skybluestalk.co.uk

Build back in a gender neutral more feminine way

Yes, your observation that women weren’t even allowed to vote until 100 years ago really blows a hole into my argument that western women aren’t the most privileged group on the planet. Not really. Children worked in coal mines less than a century ago and most are now extremely privileged it’s...
www.skybluestalk.co.uk
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #53
Yeah this is the injuries post...
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 23, 2023
  • #54
Nick said:
Yeah this is the injuries post...
Click to expand...

Plenty of hurt pride and bruised egos I suppose
 
Reactions: DazzleTommyDazzle

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #55
Grendel said:
Waghorn has a career that has championship standard branded on it. Panzo has terrible ball watching qualities - not seeing anything there to be honest

I’m certainly not yet seeing any merit in dumping Kane at all
Click to expand...
No one wanted him at our level says a lot
 
Reactions: Otis and PVA

skybluelee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #56
I asked Godden on Saturday when he'd be back and he said he was hoping to be in the squad for Huddersfield.
 
Reactions: eastwoodsdustman, Otis, ExmouthNeil and 1 other person

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #57
Personally I’d get Godden and Fadz back asap, I think Vik needs a partner without O’Hare and Palmer needs to play deeper. I think Godden or even Walker would make more of the sorts of runs Palmer would thrive off.

Fadz is absolutely key so really hope he can go straight back game after next, but a relapse would fuck our season basically.

/exasperated supply teacher
 
Reactions: rexo87

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #58
On another note I noticed Robins said Hamer is in the “cryo chamber” which explains how we’ve kept Fadz going so far, clearly we freeze him over the summer.
 
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P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #59
shmmeee said:
Personally I’d get Godden and Fadz back asap, I think Vik needs a partner without O’Hare and Palmer needs to play deeper. I think Godden or even Walker would make more of the sorts of runs Palmer would thrive off.

Fadz is absolutely key so really hope he can go straight back game after next, but a relapse would fuck our season basically.

/exasperated supply teacher
Click to expand...

Yeah it's not going to be the right formation every game but Palmer could definitely benefit from having two strikers in front of him.
 

skyblueeyesrevisited

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #60
shmmeee said:
On another note I noticed Robins said Hamer is in the “cryo chamber” which explains how we’ve kept Fadz going so far, clearly we freeze him over the summer.
Click to expand...
Ah that might have been the reason we couldn’t get going for the first twenty minutes on Saturday. Clearly MR needs to start thawing them out earlier. Bit like the Christmas Turkey.
 
Reactions: AOM, fernandopartridge and shmmeee

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #61
PVA said:
Yeah it's not going to be the right formation every game but Palmer could definitely benefit from having two strikers in front of him.
Click to expand...
On paper it all makes sense but Palmer in a 3 man midfield behind 2 strikers is problematic for me. He just doesn’t get back so Hamer has to do so much more defensive work, which I feel blunts his own game. Allen is like a bluebottle trapped in a greenhouse but it generally allows Hamer a bit more freedom. I think it would need us to go to a back 3 again and the wingbacks to really play in a midfield 4 and not a back 5 to work. And then there’s no room for Robins favourite Allen.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #62
Esoterica said:
On paper it all makes sense but Palmer in a 3 man midfield behind 2 strikers is problematic for me. He just doesn’t get back so Hamer has to do so much more defensive work, which I feel blunts his own game. Allen is like a bluebottle trapped in a greenhouse but it generally allows Hamer a bit more freedom. I think it would need us to go to a back 3 again and the wingbacks to really play in a midfield 4 and not a back 5 to work. And then there’s no room for Robins favourite Allen.
Click to expand...

hamer also will almost certainly be on his way in the summer and his energy will be hard to replace
 
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P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #63
Esoterica said:
On paper it all makes sense but Palmer in a 3 man midfield behind 2 strikers is problematic for me. He just doesn’t get back so Hamer has to do so much more defensive work, which I feel blunts his own game. Allen is like a bluebottle trapped in a greenhouse but it generally allows Hamer a bit more freedom. I think it would need us to go to a back 3 again and the wingbacks to really play in a midfield 4 and not a back 5 to work. And then there’s no room for Robins favourite Allen.
Click to expand...

Yeah I meant with the wingbacks. It wouldn't be a 3 man midfield, it'd be the two CMs and Palmer at AM.

The AM in that role doesn't need to constantly get back. O'Hare doesn't get back when he plays there, he does all his pressing at the top end of the pitch.
 
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #64
PVA said:
Yeah I meant with the wingbacks. It wouldn't be a 3 man midfield, it'd be the two CMs and Palmer at AM.

The AM in that role doesn't need to get back. O'Hare doesn't get back when he plays there, he does all his pressing at the top end of the pitch.
Click to expand...

On the contrary I'd argue O'Hare tracking back is pretty fundamental to our play to be honest. He doesn't just do it in the opposition half either. His work off the ball helps create opportunities for a counter attack as well as stopping the opposition from getting down the pitch.

Palmer most of the time is fairly placid in his play and puts in very little work off the ball. To be honest his work on the ball is dreadful at times as well.
 
Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
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P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #65
KenilworthSkyBlue said:
On the contrary I'd argue O'Hare tracking back is pretty fundamental to our play to be honest. He doesn't just do it in the opposition half either. His work off the ball helps create opportunities for a counter attack as well as stopping the opposition from getting down the pitch.

Palmer most of the time is fairly placid in his play and puts in very little work off the ball. To be honest his work on the ball is dreadful at times as well.
Click to expand...

His pressing is absolutely critical yes, but not so much the tracking back. Its his pressing high up the pitch that is so fundamental to how we play.

And I don't agree with Palmer doing little off the ball. He has more tackles per game than Allen this season (and O'Hare, but small sample size obviously). More blocks, interceptions and fouls too.

I am not for one second suggesting Palmer is anywhere near as good off the ball as O'Hare by the way.
 
Last edited: Jan 24, 2023

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #66
PVA said:
His pressing is absolutely critical yes, but not so much the tracking back. Its his pressing high up the pitch that is so fundamental to how we play.

And I don't agree with Palmer doing little off the ball. He has more tackles per game than Allen this season (and O'Hare, but small sample size obviously). More blocks, interceptions and fouls too.

I am not for one second suggesting Palmer is anywhere near as good off the ball as O'Hare by the way.
Click to expand...
He does run back, you see O'Hare winning the ball about 30 yards from our goal or at least pressuring a player so they run into Hamer or Sheaf. It can't be understated how much he's missed.
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #67
fernandopartridge said:
He does run back, you see O'Hare winning the ball about 30 yards from our goal or at least pressuring a player so they run into Hamer or Sheaf. It can't be understated how much he's missed.
Click to expand...

The results with and without o hare this season prove the point - there’s nothing like an adequate replacement for him available
 
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K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #68
PVA said:
His pressing is absolutely critical yes, but not so much the tracking back. Its his pressing high up the pitch that is so fundamental to how we play.

And I don't agree with Palmer doing little off the ball. He has more tackles per game than Allen this season (and O'Hare, but small sample size obviously). More blocks, interceptions and fouls too.
Click to expand...

His tracking back is really important. You won't find many who disagree with that. He'll regularly drop back when the opposition has the ball to add an extra body in midfield. It's pretty vital to our counter play too. As he's shown on numerous occasions.

Granted, Palmer can tackle when he wants to. But I'd air to the side of caution using those stats to press your point. I also wouldn't exactly use Allen as a benchmark.

I just don't know what else he's particularly good at as he lacks all the attributes you'd expect from a CAM. He's slow, his movement is by large poor, his passing is dreadful, as is his decision making, he's wasteful and he clearly has a fitness issue.

Realistically you have to wonder why he's been brought in.
 
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K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #69
Grendel said:
The results with and without o hare this season prove the point - there’s nothing like an adequate replacement for him available
Click to expand...

Robins realistically is going to have to try and find an alternative way of playing as the current style isn't working. He's asking Palmer to effectively do a similar job to O'Hare when physically it's clearly not possible for him.

Launching the ball up to Gyokeres isn't a tactic either. Most of the time the opposition double up on him anyway so 9 times out of 10 it leads to lost possession.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 24, 2023
  • #70
KenilworthSkyBlue said:
His tracking back is really important. You won't find many who disagree with that. He'll regularly drop back when the opposition has the ball to add an extra body in midfield. It's pretty vital to our counter play too. As he's shown on numerous occasions.

Granted, Palmer can tackle when he wants to. But I'd air to the side of caution using those stats to press your point. I also wouldn't exactly use Allen as a benchmark.

I just don't know what else he's particularly good at as he lacks all the attributes you'd expect from a CAM. He's slow, his movement is by large poor, his passing is dreadful, as is his decision making, he's wasteful and he clearly has a fitness issue.

Realistically you have to wonder why he's been brought in.
Click to expand...

It’s a high risk signing and always was going to be. You assume Viveash recommended it as he could sort out the clear issues that are there - the big issue of lack of pace and fitness isn’t improving at all
 
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