Incentive led stadium ownership (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

Some people feel that the survival of the football club depends on SISU getting ownership of the stadium.

Others think that would be the end of the football club.

I have a very simplistic idea (like me) and would love you more financially aware business astute people to analyse its strengths and weaknesses and how possibly to modify it to make it work.

Stadium ownership on the basis if meeting certain criteria.

An independent valuation is made for ownership of the stadium.

SiSU are promised 1/3 ownership at a discounted price when they

Gain promotion to the championship.
Meet a minimum requirement of community projects
Meet a minimum requirement of regeneration.

They then have an option to buy two thirds of the stadium again at a discounted price by meeting the same criteria but promotion to the premiership.

Then the final third by staying in the premiership.

I am sure the idea will have certain pitfalls but would it

Overcome the distrust from the fans, council and ACL.
Give SISU hope that they are not wasting their time.
Get everyone what they want.

Force the council to show they will one day be prepared to sell to SISU.
Force SISU by signing such a contract to show they are serious about the actual football club.

stupot07 · Dec 29, 2012

Sorry but that's a terrible idea.

Otis · Dec 29, 2012

stupot07 said:
Sorry but that's a terrible idea.

That's what they said about the atom bomb!!

Grendel · Dec 29, 2012

Such conditions would in my opinion be unworkable and also unjust.

The new rent deal is still outrageous.

I see no evidence that ACL or the council have any interest in the football club anyway - it's just a way of propping up the arena project by screwing us with a bloated rent.

BackRoomRummermill · Dec 29, 2012

Has anyone an idea of what the Stadium is Worth i.e how much to buy the RICOH and all its facilities, i am not interested in the earning potential just the value of the RICOH and its land on Pheonix way ?

Ta

Astute · Dec 29, 2012

Grendel said:
The new rent deal is still outrageous.

Paying no rent at all is outrageous. Really shows the council they can't be trusted with ownership of the stadium and the future of our club.

Astute · Dec 29, 2012

BackRoomRummermill said:
Has anyone an idea of what the Stadium is Worth i.e how much to buy the RICOH and all its facilities, i am not interested in the earning potential just the value of the RICOH and its land on Pheonix way ?

Ta

The value of the land depends on planning permission granted. If you think Tescos paid in excess of 60m........

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

Also it is up to you but, if you are going to ridicule the idea would you mind doing it via logical arguments and not just sarcastic one liners.
I know by saying that I am practically inviting it

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

Grendel said:
Such conditions would in my opinion be unworkable and also unjust.

The new rent deal is still outrageous.

I see no evidence that ACL or the council have any interest in the football club anyway - it's just a way of propping up the arena project by screwing us with a bloated rent.

Would the conditions not force both sides to look after the football club.

Those who say The council only want to keep it for alteria motives. This way the council sign a document showing if the criteria they claim needs to be met they will sell.

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

stupot07 said:
Sorry but that's a terrible idea.

Why is that Stu

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

Grendel said:
Such conditions would in my opinion be unworkable and also unjust.

The new rent deal is still outrageous.

I see no evidence that ACL or the council have any interest in the football club anyway - it's just a way of propping up the arena project by screwing us with a bloated rent.

Why unjust Grendel is this not what SISU already say they are going to deliver.

Is this not what the council say they want to see before they would sell.

Who is it unjust on.

Godiva · Dec 29, 2012

You are suggesting a consortium of a political council, a charity foundation and a business developer (some would say business destroyer) to operate a stadium and secure a football club?

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

BackRoomRummermill said:
Has anyone an idea of what the Stadium is Worth i.e how much to buy the RICOH and all its facilities, i am not interested in the earning potential just the value of the RICOH and its land on Pheonix way ?

Ta

I keep asking this.
If it is true that 1/3 of the land alone just in a decontaminated state was 66 million. Then it must be worth a hell of a lot with foundations, infrastructure, services.
Never mind the stadium itself.

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

Godiva said:
You are suggesting a consortium of a political council, a charity foundation and a business developer (some would say business destroyer) to operate a stadium and secure a football club?

Is that not we have at the moment bar a common goal and an agreement signed on paper.
We just seem to have rhetoric.

Godiva · Dec 29, 2012

The stadium is worth what somebody is prepared to pay.
What has been paid and invested in the past when money grew on trees doesn't matter.

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

Godiva said:
The stadium is worth what somebody is prepared to pay.
What has been paid and invested in the past when money grew on trees doesn't matter.

That's a good point it's a very different economical world today.

Godiva · Dec 29, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Is that not we have at the moment bar a common goal Nd agreement signed on paper.
We just seem to have rhetoric.

And it's not working - put it all into one entity controlled by one owner.

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

Godiva said:
And it's not working - put it all into one entity controlled by one owner.

Yes that where you end up, one owner in control and cov in the premiership.

How else are we going to get to the point of one owner

BackRoomRummermill · Dec 29, 2012

Just to have a random look at a basic Model , without Concerts , rugby matches and car boot and antiques fairs

Well a mortgage on 50 M at 3% over 25 years will be Monthly payment of 212K pcm add on 30K pcm to operate it you are looking at around 250K per month income to make a wee profit , this in turn equates to 3M per year to operate the Ricoh

Lets say they sell 7K season tickets at 300 quid this equals 2.1 Million

Lets say average attendance at 9 K so this equals over 23 home games 2000x20 quid = 40k x 23 = 880K

Lets say the attendace earns a pound profit on the pies and beer =9K x 23 lets say 200K

Carparking and prawn sandwich club and advertising every home match 10K x 23 = 230K

Ricoh basic income based on todays in the third division = 3.5 Million then Minus 3 million = 500k profit per year

It would boil down for SISU to own the club outright they need high TV and advertising revenue to operate the CCFC part of the operation

Godiva · Dec 29, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Yes that where you end up, one owner in control and cov in the premiership.

How else are we going to get to the point of one owner

By sisu forcing the ACL out and buy it for the mortage?

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

BackRoomRummermill said:
Just to have a random look at a basic Model , without Concerts , rugby matches and car boot and antiques fairs

Well a mortgage on 50 M at 3% over 25 years will be Monthly payment of 212K pcm add on 30K pcm to operate it you are looking at around 250K per month income to make a wee profit , this in turn equates to 3M per year to operate the Ricoh

Lets say they sell 7K season tickets at 300 quid this equals 2.1 Million

Lets say average attendance at 9 K so this equals over 23 home games 2000x20 quid = 40k x 23 = 880K

Lets say the attendace earns a pound profit on the pies and beer =9K x 23 lets say 200K

Carparking and prawn sandwich club and advertising every home match 10K x 23 = 230K

Ricoh basic income based on todays in the third division = 3.5 Million then Minus 3 million = 500k profit per year

It would boil down for SISU to own the club outright they need high TV and advertising revenue to operate the CCFC part of the operation

There is is only one place where you get the high attendances, sponsorship and tv rights.
However when you get there you have massive wages

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

Godiva said:
By sisu forcing the ACL out and buy it for the mortage?

But via the aggressive route will they ever end up owning the stadium out right.
The council still have the power to veto

Godiva · Dec 29, 2012

dongonzalos said:
But via the aggressive route will they ever end up owning the stadium out right.
The council still have the power to veto

I think we have completed the circle of arguments.
We are back at the point where ACL will have to make up their mind: Will they force the club into administration and hope the stadium can survive without the club and all the revenue that comes directly or indirectly from the clubs presense. If yes, all they have to do is issue the winding up petition. If no, they should hand over the control and mortage to the club. There is no middle way as I see it.

BackRoomRummermill · Dec 29, 2012

Godiva said:
I think we have completed the circle of arguments.
We are back at the point where ACL will have to make up their mind: Will they force the club into administration and hope the stadium can survive without the club and all the revenue that comes directly or indirectly from the clubs presense. If yes, all they have to do is issue the winding up petition. If no, they should hand over the control and mortage to the club. There is no middle way as I see it.

There is no way they can cover 3M a year , not a chance so over to you SISU

sky blue john · Dec 29, 2012

Wouldn't work because sisu dont even want to pay anything never mind a discounted rate. They feel because they have injected 70 million ? They should get it for free !!!!

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

Godiva said:
I think we have completed the circle of arguments.
We are back at the point where ACL will have to make up their mind: Will they force the club into administration and hope the stadium can survive without the club and all the revenue that comes directly or indirectly from the clubs presense. If yes, all they have to do is issue the winding up petition. If no, they should hand over the control and mortage to the club. There is no middle way as I see it.

You just completely ignored the point, would SISU end up with out right ownership of the stadium via such aggressive tactics.

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

sky blue john said:
Wouldn't work because sisu dont even want to pay anything never mind a discounted rate. They feel because they have injected 70 million ? They should get it for free !!!!

If they are genuine in their rhetoric they would sign such an agreement as would the council.

Would be interesting if it was on the table to see who is telling the truth.

wingy · Dec 29, 2012

dongonzalos said:
You just completely ignored the point, would SISU end up with out right ownership of the stadium via such aggressive tactics.

By the route they're taking they would'nt need to worry about any Veto Dong ,whats the freehold worth anyway? Not a lot is it while theres a long lease on it?:thinking about:

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

wingy said:
By the route they're taking they would'nt need to worry about any Veto Dong ,whats the freehold worth anyway? Not a lot is it while theres a long lease on it?:thinking about:

Sorry wingy, how do you mean they won't need to worry about the veto.
I assume you mean if they force ACL out.
Do the council not then still have final say over who replaces ACL?

wingy · Dec 29, 2012

dongonzalos said:
If they are genuine in their rhetoric they would sign such an agreement as would the council.

Would be interesting if it was on the table to see who is telling the truth.

Surely the way to determine how genuine they are ,which people on both sides of the divide agree they're not ,would be to offer the Pitch and Pitchside element to them For Sale ,after all thats what they say ,this football club needs its own ground ,So offer them the ground.

wingy · Dec 29, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Sorry wingy, how do you mean they won't need to worry about the veto.
I assume you mean if they force ACL out.
Do the council not then still have final say over who replaces ACL?

If they knock ACL over through the current tactics and takeover the mortgage there is no Veto for the council to employ.

stupot07 · Dec 29, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Why is that Stu

Because you are incentivising and encouraging the club to spend beyond its means and get into further debt to even get a shot of getting to the PL. most teams that get promoted are in receipt of parachute payments, the others usually have spent quite a bit of cash just to get there. There are odd exceptions but they are usually 'the perfect storm' where everything comes together - these are rare occurrences.

Then when you get there, more spending both in terms of transfers (Southampton £12m Ramirez) and wages just to try and stay there - yep, you might last 1-2 seasons without having to spend big but there will become a time when things start to go against you and you need to spend to try and survive.

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

I agree it would take some serious investment.
However what would the Ricoh and CCFC in the premiership be worth.
Not all clubs do it irresponsibly, although I agree a lot do.
But look at Norwich and West Brom.

dongonzalos · Dec 29, 2012

wingy said:
If they knock ACL over through the current tactics and takeover the mortgage there is no Veto for the council to employ.

Do they automatically take over the mortgage.
Or can they face competition for that.

Astute · Dec 29, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Do they automatically take over the mortgage.
Or can they face competition for that.

would the bank trust them to keep up with the payments? :thinking about:

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