If we went down.... (1 Viewer)

[Astute]

Our away support could sell out some division 4 grounds :thinking about:

 

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[stupot07]

It didn't include the revenues the club needs to buy them back, but not including the revenues doesn't change anything, there was MASSIVLY!!!!!!! more revenue staying where they were with no food and beverage revenue than moving to northampton. Why are we discussing this? This is stuff from 9 months ago the decision to move was stupid and made no financial sense and that was the case even at 1.2mill rent with no revenue and there are NO logical arguements for it.

Only the first of the 2 desperation offers required dropping the JR the one that involved signing the cva. The offer to play for costs this season and next didn't come with that restriction as the cva had already been rejected. But it should never of gotten to any of that. They should have at the latest paid the rent and agreed the 400k (yes without revenue) before admin happened.

To be honest, none of know the full facts, and like you said we would be better off staying put and handing ACL £1.2m in rent £250k+ in matchday costs, and letting them benefit from £1m+ in F&Bs and other matchday revenue than being at Northampton.

We would've all been so happy and content.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

However what would Sisu do in that situation? Knowing our luck they would simply cut out budget.

Hopefully, they will cut their loses and piss off!:slap:

 

[Noggin]

To be honest, none of know the full facts, and like you said we would be better off staying put and handing ACL £1.2m in rent £250k+ in matchday costs, and letting them benefit from £1m+ in F&Bs and other matchday revenue than being at Northampton.

We would've all been so happy and content.

compared to now, not just happy and content but fucking delirious, we'd be excitingly looking forward to playoffs at the end of the season. Complaining about the fans coming out of the woodwork for the big games, not arguing over finance and wondering weather its this season or next season we get relegated to league 2 and will be even be competitive when we get there.

But obviously not having revenues from food and beverage and renting our ground are issues and the solutions of course are to buy them back. The solutions arn't to do something an order of magnetude worse than not having the revenues.

 

[stupot07]

compared to now, not just happy and content but fucking delirious, we'd be excitingly looking forward to playoffs at the end of the season. Complaining about the fans coming out of the woodwork for the big games, not arguing over finance and wondering weather its this season or next season we get relegated to league 2 and will be even be competitive when we get there.

But obviously not having revenues from food and beverage and renting our ground are issues and the solutions of course are to buy them back. The solutions arn't to do something an order of magnetude worse than not having the revenues.

Didn't ACL offer them to the club for £24m....

Anyway, there's enough threads discussing this crap.

 

[chiefdave]

You're right a lot of people bills are too high, that's why we move house, remortgage, change energy suppliers, change mobile contracts, move insurers, shop in different super markets on a regular basis.

So if Tesco on the Arena Park sell a pint of milk for 50p but at the Northampton Lidl it was 30p would you spend a fiver on petrol and an hour and a half of your time to get there as it was a better offer?

 

[stupot07]

So if Tesco on the Arena Park sell a pint of milk for 50p but at the Northampton Lidl it was 30p would you spend a fiver on petrol and an hour and a half of your time to get there as it was a better offer?

FFS. That wasn't what I was getting at and you know it.

 

[chiefdave]

FFS. That wasn't what I was getting at and you know it.

I know but in SISU's world it seems you would do your shopping at Northampton Tesco no matter how many people were telling you it was crazy and your reasoning didn't make any sense

 

[Astute]

Reasoning and sense don't seem to cover our situation. If it did we wouldn't be the laughing stock of English football.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Reasoning and sense don't seem to cover our situation. If it did we wouldn't be the laughing stock of English football.

We can't even win that to be fair. Portsmouth are head and shoulders above us in those stakes.

 

[Astute]

We can't even win that to be fair. Portsmouth are head and shoulders above us in those stakes.

But people know what went wrong there. It was utter greed and stupidity.

We debate all the crap every day and still find half of what has happened missing.......other than the greed and stupidity.

 

[italiahorse]

The £400k still didn't solve the longer term issue of accessing revenues, the offer was cross invoicing for FFP, the club at that point had also asked for a break clause IIRC which ACL had rejected, so whilst the rent level was ok, the fine print wasn't acceptable. They should have took one if the desperation offers as an interim, but that included having to withdraw the JR, and after ACL tried to force a regime change by backing Haskell, then rejecting the CVA to give the clubs 10 point penalty.

Whether the JR will actually achieve anything or not, etc, etc, etc

You can't just be given the other revenues, you have to buy them.
Significant investment was put into providing the facilities and no offer was forthcoming. They just saw it as there right to have it.

They could have made an offer for catering contract but never even considered it apparently.

 

[Sterling Archer]

But people know what went wrong there. It was utter greed and stupidity.

We debate all the crap every day and still find half of what has happened missing.......other than the greed and stupidity.

From what I've heard,, Portsmouth are in further financial trouble and this is even with majority fan ownership!

 

[SkyBlueSid]

We can't even win that to be fair. Portsmouth are head and shoulders above us in those stakes.

Not in every respect. They still play in their home town. Their attendances average over 15000, more than twice anyone else in that division. We play 35 miles away in front of the lowest crowds in our division, and the fourth lowest in the country.

So I'd say the 'laughing stock' jury is probably still out on that one.

 

[stupot07]

You can't just be given the other revenues, you have to buy them.
Significant investment was put into providing the facilities and no offer was forthcoming. They just saw it as there right to have it.

They could have made an offer for catering contract but never even considered it apparently.

But now the contract has gone to compass, the F&Bs are almost worthless. So therein lies the problem.

Without revenues, we will continue to struggle,but because ACL did the deal with compass they're not worth buying.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Reasoning and sense don't seem to cover our situation. If it did we wouldn't be the laughing stock of English football.

I thought we were.

 

[chiefdave]

From what I've heard,, Portsmouth are in further financial trouble and this is even with majority fan ownership!

Maybe time to get the Pompey thread back up and running!!! There's a lot of talk round here that they are just working day to day and have big problems round the corner. Part of the ground is closed of as it's unsafe, they had to borrow half a million to even get the ground through health and safety this year. Most suspect they can just about get through next season but if they don't get promotion they will be back in admin. Their business plan called for huge growth year on year (in some areas over 100%) and around now they should have been about to be promoted to the championship where in reality they are still in danger of dropping out of the league.

People are also working out that their shares aren't really shares more of a donation. They have no value and can't be sold. That's not gone down well and some are saying they've basically been conned and it was far from clear as they were always referred to as shares.

 

[chiefdave]

But now the contract has gone to compass, the F&Bs are almost worthless. So therein lies the problem.

Without revenues, we will continue to struggle,but because ACL did the deal with compass they're not worth buying.

I think the Compass deal is a red herring. Many other clubs have similar deals, including Northampton, it's not something weird and wonderful ACL have done and they have done it as they feel it is the deal that gives the best return. You're just getting the profit from the joint venture company rather than from selling the pies yourself, the Compass deal doesn't mean there is no longer any money. Either way the amount you're going to make through F&B isn't worth all this hassle and clearly isn't the cause of the issues.

 

[stupot07]

I think the Compass deal is a red herring. Many other clubs have similar deals, including Northampton, it's not something weird and wonderful ACL have done and they have done it as they feel it is the deal that gives the best return. You're just getting the profit from the joint venture company rather than from selling the pies yourself, the Compass deal doesn't mean there is no longer any money. Either way the amount you're going to make through F&B isn't worth all this hassle and clearly isn't the cause of the issues.

It's not really a red herring though is it? The model sees them make a measly 11-12% profit on F&B's, where as Charlton were making 40%, and if you have a little google restaurants, pubs etc look to make around 60-65% profit.

Then ACL offered to sell is something's worth c£100k for £24m!

It will be interesting see the accounts next season to see if compass are slapping and management charges on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Jack Griffin]

Maybe time to get the Pompey thread back up and running!!! There's a lot of talk round here that they are just working day to day and have big problems round the corner. Part of the ground is closed of as it's unsafe, they had to borrow half a million to even get the ground through health and safety this year. Most suspect they can just about get through next season but if they don't get promotion they will be back in admin. Their business plan called for huge growth year on year (in some areas over 100%) and around now they should have been about to be promoted to the championship where in reality they are still in danger of dropping out of the league.

People are also working out that their shares aren't really shares more of a donation. They have no value and can't be sold. That's not gone down well and some are saying they've basically been conned and it was far from clear as they were always referred to as shares.

These shares sound like the they are worth as much as one of Fletchers PSL, or Confederate States Dollars.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I think the Compass deal is a red herring. Many other clubs have similar deals, including Northampton, it's not something weird and wonderful ACL have done and they have done it as they feel it is the deal that gives the best return. You're just getting the profit from the joint venture company rather than from selling the pies yourself, the Compass deal doesn't mean there is no longer any money. Either way the amount you're going to make through F&B isn't worth all this hassle and clearly isn't the cause of the issues.

I thought Fisher wanted to give AEG a similar deal.

 

[chiefdave]

It's not really a red herring though is it? The model sees them make a measly 11-12% profit on F&B's, where as Charlton were making 40%, and if you have a little google restaurants, pubs etc look to make around 60-65% profit.

That's a different argument. ACL own nearly 80% of the joint venture company so its in their interests for profit to be maximised or are you saying they have deliberately entered a deal that sees them make less money? That would seem an odd thing to do.

If SISU owned 50% of ACL and therefore somewhere in the region of 40% of the joint venture company if it was underperforming they would be in a position to do something about it. Has there been any analysis of the books to see why there is 10% profit and not more?

The point is, even at 40% profit the amount we're talking about is not make or break and would be of no great significance on our current financial state. This is why I see it as a red herring. Of course the more that can be made the better but underpinning an argument based on not having access to that revenue stream doesn't add up to me.

Then ACL offered to sell is something's worth c£100k for £24m!

Or of course SISU could have exercised the option to purchase 50% of ACL for under £10m. That option originally came with 100% of matchday revenues and as that option was still in place when the joint venture company was created wouldn't it have had to be taken into consideration.

I thought Fisher wanted to give AEG a similar deal.

He was talking about AEG managing the whole facility so in all likelihood the share received by the club would be a fraction of what it woudl be under the current deal. AEG aren't going to come in and run the facility and then hand the money over to someone else. They certainly don't at the other facilities they run.