Hull Next? (11 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

Kind of just says to me that it isn't just Coventry City FC who are having problems with a Council owned stadium. Despite the sabre rattling from folk on here the Club ideally needs to own the Ricoh.

If the clubs can't afford to build there own stadium then they have to rent one !!
Makes me laugh that once they start to rent they then try and get hold of it on the cheap by threatening/moving out.

CCFC have started something that governing bodies need to sort out not assist.

Obviously as a fan getting hold of the stadium on the cheap is what I want but something is wrong in the process.

 

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[covcity4life]

I wonder how many Hull fans don't want the council to sell to the club

hardly any, they support the club like every other clubs fans do.

 

[lewys33]

I wonder how many Hull fans don't want the council to sell to the club

You are wondering about the wrong thing there .........

 

[skybluebal]

How do you know the 'market price'?

Paul Fletcher has eluded to the 'true' price and value on several occasions, without ever quoting it.

You may find it's a lot less than CCC may be quoting!

There is a buyer & seller involved and each will look at the "value" to the other of the sale:

1. The seller holds out for the "value" they believe it to be saleable for. Factors such as build costs (£30); planning permission (1-2 years); time (3-5 years); attraction of investors (difficult?); lost revenue opportunity(£12m over 5 years); and so forth.

For CCC this could be assessed at around £42m over 5 years for a 12,000 seater stadium

2. The buyer SISU looks at its "valuation" on the basis that the seller NEEDS to and IS DESPERATE to sell. So I'll offer bargain basement price because I assume there are no other buyers in the game or no other options for the seller, so lets offer e.g. £5m+take on the loans for a 32,000 seater stadium. In this way, when we come to re-sell, we make a healthy profit.

So the seller has to decide HOW DESPERATE he is to sell and if he is not, then he will wait for the right market condition and the right buyer. Not much different from buying/selling any piece of property.

In summary, at any point in time an item is only WORTH what someone is willing to pay for it.

The economics of the situation are not lost on either side, or the fans. If the two parties (SISU and CCC/ACL) can come to a mutually satisfactory price point (without a "we got one over on the other" rhetoric) and safeguards regarding the future re-sale and use of the stadium by CCFC, then I see no reason not to proceed. The sooner the better!

 

[italiahorse]

There is a buyer & seller involved and each will look at the "value" to the other of the sale:

1. The seller holds out for the "value" they believe it to be saleable for. Factors such as build costs (£30); planning permission (1-2 years); time (3-5 years); attraction of investors (difficult?); lost revenue opportunity(£12m over 5 years); and so forth.

For CCC this could be assessed at around £42m over 5 years for a 12,000 seater stadium

2. The buyer SISU looks at its "valuation" on the basis that the seller NEEDS to and IS DESPERATE to sell. So I'll offer bargain basement price because I assume there are no other buyers in the game or no other options for the seller, so lets offer e.g. £5m+take on the loans for a 32,000 seater stadium. In this way, when we come to re-sell, we make a healthy profit.

So the seller has to decide HOW DESPERATE he is to sell and if he is not, then he will wait for the right market condition and the right buyer. Not much different from buying/selling any piece of property.

In summary, at any point in time an item is only WORTH what someone is willing to pay for it.

The economics of the situation are not lost on either side, or the fans. If the two parties (SISU and CCC/ACL) can come to a mutually satisfactory price point (without a "we got one over on the other" rhetoric) and safeguards regarding the future re-sale and use of the stadium by CCFC, then I see no reason not to proceed. The sooner the better!

........................ or the buyer does not have to sell because they have rescheduled a loan and found alternative business opportunities. The arena which was only used for 25 days a year now has a bigger summer window for other non sporting events and prestige minor internationals, rugby matches etc. Perhaps rent out to smaller midland teams for major matches say Northampton Vs Man Utd in FA Cup.

In addition new proposals for development of car park C for 2 hotels and large indoor exhibition hall and movement of major agricultural shows, steam/car/showjumping festivals into the arena.,

With the 125k a year ccfc rental revenue lost and related f&b profits of £120k ACL are happy for ccfc to move on.

Nightmare scenario ? Watch this space !!!

 

[torchomatic]

But all those "opportunities" are conjecture, pie-in-the-sky scenarios. There's no guarantee of internationals, rugby matches and the example of Northampton playing a big game here is laughable.

........................ or the buyer does not have to sell because they have rescheduled a loan and found alternative business opportunities. The arena which was only used for 25 days a year now has a bigger summer window for other non sporting events and prestige minor internationals, rugby matches etc. Perhaps rent out to smaller midland teams for major matches say Northampton Vs Man Utd in FA Cup.

In addition new proposals for development of car park C for 2 hotels and large indoor exhibition hall and movement of major agricultural shows, steam/car/showjumping festivals into the arena.,

With the 125k a year ccfc rental revenue lost and related f&b profits of £120k ACL are happy for ccfc to move on.

Nightmare scenario ? Watch this space !!!

 

[Grendel]

........................ or the buyer does not have to sell because they have rescheduled a loan and found alternative business opportunities. The arena which was only used for 25 days a year now has a bigger summer window for other non sporting events and prestige minor internationals, rugby matches etc. Perhaps rent out to smaller midland teams for major matches say Northampton Vs Man Utd in FA Cup.

In addition new proposals for development of car park C for 2 hotels and large indoor exhibition hall and movement of major agricultural shows, steam/car/showjumping festivals into the arena.,

With the 125k a year ccfc rental revenue lost and related f&b profits of £120k ACL are happy for ccfc to move on.

Nightmare scenario ? Watch this space !!!

Ha ha ha ha ha

Are you pissed?

This is the biggest load of made up garbage I've ever read on here!

 

[italiahorse]

Ha ha ha ha ha

Are you pissed?

This is the biggest load of made up garbage I've ever read on here!

It's a nightmare scenario for CCFC and no one can be certain some of it won't happen.
We already know the loan has been rescheduled and the club has not taken advantage of it.
Also 2 separate planning applications have taken place for hotels on car park C.

At some point ACL will need change there business model and with no sitting tenant in the stadium other opportunities will present themselves.
Don't forget ACL only need to cover 150K a year rental plus related f&b and that does not seem a lot to me.

 

[Grendel]

It's a nightmare scenario for CCFC and no one can be certain some of it won't happen.
We already know the loan has been rescheduled and the club has not taken advantage of it.
Also 2 separate planning applications have taken place for hotels on car park C.

At some point ACL will need change there business model and with no sitting tenant in the stadium other opportunities will present themselves.
Don't forget ACL only need to cover 150K a year rental plus related f&b and that does not seem a lot to me.

OK let's discuss one of your ideas that may happen -- showjumping. Where and what?

 

[italiahorse]

OK let's discuss one of your ideas that may happen -- showjumping. Where and what?

Horse of the year show, Royal Show with indoor exhibitions as well, Town and Country show. Need I go on ?

 

[lewys33]

So I clicked on this thread, and it was like showjumping in hull??

 

[italiahorse]

So I clicked on this thread, and it was like showjumping in hull??

Harvey Smith at the Ricoh would sell out !!

 

[Grendel]

Horse of the year show, Royal Show with indoor exhibitions as well, Town and Country show. Need I go on ?

Interesting - so the 10 year contract the BHSA has signed with Olympia and the 5 year contract with Olympia will be broken? How?

Can you also please explain to me where the horses will be stabled on the site as happens at other venues? Also I would love to know if the Indoor area is to be used to house the actual event where the trade stands, which are fundamental to the success of these events (260 at Olympia) will actually be housed?

Yes, please go on.

 

[italiahorse]

Horse of the year show, Royal Show with indoor exhibitions as well, Town and Country show. Need I go on ?

Can I just say this is my idea. Please message me for any event bookings

 

[lewys33]

Interesting - so the 10 year contract the BHSA has signed with Olympia and the 5 year contract with Olympia will be broken? How?

Can you also please explain to me where the horses will be stabled on the site as happens at other venues? Also I would love to know if the Indoor area is to be used to house the actual event where the trade stands, which are fundamental to the success of these events (260 at Olympia) will actually be housed?

Yes, please go on.

So no show jumping then?

 

[italiahorse]

Interesting - so the 10 year contract the BHSA has signed with Olympia and the 5 year contract with Olympia will be broken? How?

Can you also please explain to me where the horses will be stabled on the site as happens at other venues? Also I would love to know if the Indoor area is to be used to house the actual event where the trade stands, which are fundamental to the success of these events (260 at Olympia) will actually be housed?

Yes, please go on.

Firstly it's BSJA. Secondly it's at the NEC not Olympia and thirdly I could personally arrange for 260 temporary stables to be placed in car park B.
Don't talk to me about equestrian events unless you are well briefed.

 

[Grendel]

So no show jumping then?

Oddly I know something about the logistics of this - The Ricoh is totally unsuitable and anyone claiming otherwise clearly is talking total crap.

 

[lewys33]

Oddly I know something about the logistics of this - The Ricoh is totally unsuitable and anyone claiming otherwise clearly is talking total crap.

I thought we were talking about hull??

 

[Grendel]

Firstly it's BSJA. Secondly it's at the NEC not Olympia and thirdly I could personally arrange for 260 temporary stables to be placed in car park B.
Don't talk to me about equestrian events unless you are well briefed.

Yes I will go on. There is zero chance. As you are well briefed you know full well there are two big shows each year at the NEC and also at Olympia. The contracts are I believe as stated - you clearly are well briefed so will advise if not. The temporary stabling is normally indoors -- in October and December it is extremely unlikely an outdoor housing would be attractive or acceptable. The trade stands must be indoors and also I do not see the Indoor Arena anywhere near big enough to house these events

 

[lewys33]

yes i will go on. There is zero chance. As you are well briefed you know full well there are two big shows each year at the nec and also at olympia. The contracts are i believe as stated - you clearly are well briefed so will advise if not. The temporary stabling is normally indoors -- in october and december it is extremely unlikely an outdoor housing would be attractive or acceptable. The trade stands must be indoors and also i do not see the indoor arena anywhere near big enough to house these events

you are arguing about fucking show jumping!!!!!

 

[italiahorse]

Yes I will go on. There is zero chance. As you are well briefed you know full well there are two big shows each year at the NEC and also at Olympia. The contracts are I believe as stated - you clearly are well briefed so will advise if not. The temporary stabling is normally indoors -- in October and December it is extremely unlikely an outdoor housing would be attractive or acceptable. The trade stands must be indoors and also I do not see the Indoor Arena anywhere near big enough to house these events

My event will use the pitch as well.
Do you fancy a job as my P.A.? I need someone with a diplomatic temperament to move the idea on.

 

[italiahorse]

you are arguing about fucking show jumping!!!!!

While I'm tying Grendel down here the other threads will be worth reading!!

 

[Grendel]

My event will use the pitch as well.
Do you fancy a job as my P.A.? I need someone with a diplomatic temperament to move the idea on.

That in October and December is an interesting concept. It also of course will jeopardize Northampton's FA Cup tie. Regardless - the trade stands? The already pre agreed contracts? Please advise how next year The Horse of The Year Show or Olympia can be hosted at The Arena?

 

[italiahorse]

That in October and December is an interesting concept. It also of course will jeopardize Northampton's FA Cup tie. Regardless - the trade stands? The already pre agreed contracts? Please advise how next year The Horse of The Year Show or Olympia can be hosted at The Arena?

It's idea is now confidential. Please speak to my PA when appointed.

 

[Grendel]

It's idea is now confidential. Please speak to my PA when appointed.

Ha ha ha ha there is of course one other very practical reason why any of these shows will never, ever be at the Ricoh above the NEC.

Other than its obvious superiority for airport links, motorway links, space -- what else does it have that the poor old Ricoh does not?

 

[italiahorse]

Ha ha ha ha there is of course one other very practical reason why any of these shows will never, ever be at the Ricoh above the NEC.

Other than its obvious superiority for airport links, motorway links, space -- what else does it have that the poor old Ricoh does not?

You keep giving me ideas.
Need to speak to Coventry Airport ref expansion plans.

 

[asb]

I thought we were talking about hull??

I thought it was about Hull as well.

Maybe this has turned into another one of those threads that end up as a word association game.

Starts

Hull
Bull
Bullshit
Horseshit

and then as these things always do it end up with

equestrian events and the ideal stabling arrangements.

It is totally logical when you understand the rules.

 

[Grendel]

You keep giving me ideas.
Need to speak to Coventry Airport ref expansion plans.

Keep digging. So that idea was crap (the other issue is dreadful parking spaces vs NEC by the way - the NEC parking is sold out every show)

Let's discuss another -- Northampton vs Man Utd in the F A Cup. Why?

 

[italiahorse]

Keep digging. So that idea was crap (the other issue is dreadful parking spaces vs NEC by the way - the NEC parking is sold out every show)

Let's discuss another -- Northampton vs Man Utd in the F A Cup. Why?

If that tie ever happened they would be better off playing it here at the Ricoh. Subject to any prior bookings or Equestrian events.

Agree we can't stage major NEC events but the equestrian events would be a shoe in.

 

[italiahorse]

I thought it was about Hull as well.

Maybe this has turned into another one of those threads that end up as a word association game.

Starts

Hull
Bull
Bullshit
Horseshit

and then as these things always do it end up with

equestrian events and the ideal stabling arrangements.

It is totally logical when you understand the rules.

I will start it off with a difficult one.

"Grendel" "............... ""................" ".............." ".............." "Intelligent Discussions"

 

[Grendel]

If that tie ever happened they would be better off playing it here at the Ricoh. Subject to any prior bookings or Equestrian events.

Agree we can't stage major NEC events but the equestrian events would be a shoe in.

I know you are beaten but its midnight where I am and I am awake and bored. So, "equestrian events would be a shoe in" - please, please tell me why they would actually break the existing contract on an established venue, getting involved in enormous litigation, to come to the Ricoh?

Secondly on the Northampton Cup Tie - given that other sporting events are allowed at the arena - why have no small club in the area never hosted the cup tie at the Ricoh. Nothing legally would stop them doing so.

Over to you

 

[torchomatic]

A horse-shoe in? An ItaliaHorse of the Year Show?

Maybe we should have a Gallop poll?

Agree we can't stage major NEC events but the equestrian events would be a shoe in.

 

[asb]

I will start it off with a difficult one.

"Grendel" "............... ""................" ".............." ".............." "Intelligent Discussions"

I might need more spaces.

Grendel
Beowulf
Anglo Saxon
Alfred the great
Founded first university at Oxford (Unprovable myth)
Intelligent Discussions.

I think that might work.

 

[skybluebal]

........................ or the buyer does not have to sell because they have rescheduled a loan and found alternative business opportunities. The arena which was only used for 25 days a year now has a bigger summer window for other non sporting events and prestige minor internationals, rugby matches etc. Perhaps rent out to smaller midland teams for major matches say Northampton Vs Man Utd in FA Cup.

In addition new proposals for development of car park C for 2 hotels and large indoor exhibition hall and movement of major agricultural shows, steam/car/showjumping festivals into the arena.,

With the 125k a year ccfc rental revenue lost and related f&b profits of £120k ACL are happy for ccfc to move on.

Nightmare scenario ? Watch this space !!!

That's certainly something that SISU should be considering! The not so subtle hint from Ann Lucas was that time is running out for SISU - but again I am convinced that ACL/CCC will do a deal (whatever that is) to get the club back to Coventry. If they don't then it really will be a "nightmare scenario" because CCFC will disappear as we know it, SISU will never built a new stadium imho.

 

[Grendel]

That's certainly something that SISU should be considering! The not so subtle hint from Ann Lucas was that time is running out for SISU - but again I am convinced that ACL/CCC will do a deal (whatever that is) to get the club back to Coventry. If they don't then it really will be a "nightmare scenario" because CCFC will disappear as we know it, SISU will never built a new stadium imho.

..and the stadium will rust away -- without CCFC there is no sustainability at all.