How much difference do managers make? (1 Viewer)

Generally Midfield · Oct 23, 2017

I'm sure I read something a while back where there'd been an analysis done which worked out that a team's success was 80% due to money and 20% due to the manager. Can't for the life of me remember where I saw it but with Robins getting more criticism it made me wonder whether anyone has seen any statistics about how much impact managers make and how much is more about other stuff and especially finance.

ccfcway · Oct 23, 2017

Generally Midfield said:
I'm sure I read something a while back where there'd been an analysis done which worked out that a team's success was 80% due to money and 20% due to the manager. Can't for the life of me remember where I saw it but with Robins getting more criticism it made me wonder whether anyone has seen any statistics about how much impact managers make and how much is more about other stuff and especially finance.

a lot of it down to fit, luck and timing as well. Managers do well at certain clubs, but poor at others, they get lucky with a transfer or loan, or vice versa.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 23, 2017

Yeah, there's plenty of research that says the manager's kind of irrelevant long-term to a club's progression.

Our past 20 years definitely back that up too!

ccfcway · Oct 23, 2017

look at Koeman. Sacked today. His win rate at everton was 40%

2nd highest of any everton manager since 1990 !

oucho · Oct 23, 2017

If you look at the managers we've had, the likes of Mowbray, Dowie, Boothroyd, Reid and Adams have all won promotion to the PL from the Champ. None of them had huge big-bucks behind them at the time - did they all turn into crap managers when they joined us by complete coincidence?

ccfcway · Oct 23, 2017

oucho said:
If you look at the managers we've had, the likes of Mowbray, Dowie, Boothroyd, Reid and Adams have all won promotion to the PL from the Champ. None of them had huge big-bucks behind them at the time - did they all turn into crap managers when they joined us by complete coincidence?

Strachan and Coleman went on to manage international teams !

oucho · Oct 23, 2017

ccfcway said:
Strachan and Coleman went on to manage international teams !

Exactly. It seems to me that the identity of the manager is not particularly relevant, as other conditions in which they work (be that the owners, directors, management processes, finances etc) are structured in such a way to stack the odds against success.

Nick · Oct 23, 2017

Hi Mark*

*It is a joke.

Hobo · Oct 23, 2017

A manager can only manage the resources given to them.

dongonzalos · Oct 23, 2017

We have changed lots of players, tactics and formations over the last ten years.
We have changed more managers than years.
We have changed lots of board members.
We have changed loads of back room staff.
What hasn’t changed is the owner and also it’s been 6-7 years now of the same chairman.
When that changes as oppose to a manager we might stand a chance.

Nick · Oct 23, 2017

Hobo said:
A manager can only manage the resources given to them.

Surely a good manager gets the most of those resources though?

Understandable if for example you put Forest Green (or us) in the Premier League and expect miracles.

Macca · Oct 23, 2017

Don't think it matters a shit these days. Maybe in the old days managers shouting the odd and kicking arses but not anymore

Suffolk sky blues · Oct 23, 2017

Any business to be successful has to be ran properly.Coventry city has never been ran properly.

thekidfromstrettoncamp · Oct 23, 2017

Suffolk sky blues said:
Any business to be successful has to be ran properly.Coventry city has never been ran properly.

When Derrick Robins was here the club was . With a little help from J H

Gazolba · Oct 23, 2017

Suffolk sky blues said:
Any business to be successful has to be ran properly. Coventry city has never been ran properly.

Not true. It was run properly under Jimmy Hill and Derrick Robbins.
However, it is harder today than it was back then.

skybluetony176 · Oct 23, 2017

I’m yet to work anywhere where the tone and environment of the workplace isn’t set from the top. SP, good period of success followed by decline, TM good period of success followed by decline, MR wasn’t here long enough first time to hit a decline but certainly has second time and we look to be in danger of a period of decline. In fact you could say the same thing about all the managers to some degree that have been appointed under SISU’s ownership, even Thorn. Slade probably being the exception. It can’t all be a coincidence that this pattern keeps getting repeated regardless of the managers credentials and experience. It’s like they’ve all had the rug pulled from under them or some outside influence has effected their own abilities.

Fuck it. Let’s sack Robins. If the history that keeps repeating itself keeps repeating we’ll be non league in three seasons. Still, we’ll have JR3 to look forward to.

skybluetony176 · Oct 23, 2017

Gazolba said:
Not true. It was run properly under Jimmy Hill and Derrick Robbins.
However, it is harder today than it was back then.

It ain’t as hard as the current crop are making it look though.

Polar · Oct 23, 2017

I think the individual impact that a manager has can vary, depending on how rigid and imposing their preferred strategy is.

For example, some Managers enforce a particular approach or philosophy even when it’s plainly obvious it’s causing the team to be beaten.

E.g - boothroyd heavily emphasised long ball up the middle towards Clive platt. I remember one fan shouting very loudly “ON THE FLOOR!” in a miserable 0-0 against Sheffield United. Once the team were released from that expectation, and started playing the ball along the floor, the team came to life (thorns first few weeks).

Another example might be work ethic/fitness. Clearly players in Thorn’s team became overweight or at least behind the curve in terms of fitness. Pressley came in like a drill sergeant that couldn’t stop saying terrific (even when we were losing) and made the team fitter, to some extent.

Even last season it seemed like we improved a lot once Slade’s horrible lump it up the line approach was stopped.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ccfcway · Oct 23, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
I’m yet to work anywhere where the tone and environment of the workplace isn’t set from the top.

Such a huge factor that many overlook.

If the people who own the club don’t care, does anything think that doesn’t filter down ?

mark82 · Oct 23, 2017

We all know the reason for where we are is the owners. That said, our resources in this league are competitive and we should have done better the last few weeks. Some of the problems we've had lately have been a failing on the managers part to identify when things are going wrong in games, and also for setting up too defensively. I'm not sure we're yet at the point to change manager but things certainly need to improve quickly.

ccfcway · Oct 23, 2017

mark82 said:
We all know the reason for where we are is the owners. That said, our resources in this league are competitive and we should have done better the last few weeks. Some of the problems we've had lately have been a failing on the managers part to identify when things are going wrong in games, and also for setting up too defensively. I'm not sure we're yet at the point to change manager but things certainly need to improve quickly.

Aren’t you ?

mark82 said: ↑
Robins needs to go. I can put up with not winning games but when the manager can't see what's going wrong you need to change.

mark82 · Oct 23, 2017

ccfcway said:
Aren’t you ?

mark82 said: ↑
Robins needs to go. I can put up with not winning games but when the manager can't see what's going wrong you need to change.

Yeah, that's me! You can ignore any emotional crap I put on during or after games!

skybluetony176 · Oct 23, 2017

There’s other repeating scenarios with our managers. Scouting for instance. SP, TM and Robins have all had to rebuild the scouting network that seems to have disappeared repeatedly. When has it disappeared? The minute that they left or was it dismantled behind their backs while in the job demoralising them and that then reflecting in their performance that then reflecting in the teams performance? Is it just the scouting network that they keep meddling with behind the managers back? Then there’s the never ending cycle of the manager having to organise maintenance at Ryton, both TM and Robins had to get involved with this, TM out of the playing budget. How many other managers have to do this outside non league. Hardly an environment that breeds success, certainly not long term.

Sky Blue Pete · Oct 23, 2017

I think the potential for their impact is pretty high. At ccfc I think it would be like managing with both hands tied up

Hobo · Oct 23, 2017

Nick said:
Surely a good manager gets the most of those resources though?

Understandable if for example you put Forest Green (or us) in the Premier League and expect miracles.

It is all relative Nick....ever wondered why Man United Liverpool Arsenal and Tottenham are relatively top of the pile and the likes of Darlington, Hartlepool and York have been bottom?

And now we are in amongst the feeders lower down in the chain. League 2 mate accept it.

ccfcway · Oct 23, 2017

Hobo said:
It is all relative Nick....ever wondered why Man United Liverpool Arsenal and Tottenham are relatively top of the pile and the likes of Darlington, Hartlepool and York have been bottom?

And now we are in amongst the feeders lower down in the chain. League 2 mate accept it.

why are Huddersfield, brighton and burnley in prem league and leeds, aston villa and Sunderland in championship ?

Hobo · Oct 23, 2017

ccfcway said:
why are Huddersfield, brighton and burnley in prem league and leeds, aston villa and Sunderland in championship ?

Perhaps you need to look a little closer at budget, investment and debt. Also look at the history and who has been in top flight more consistently rather than a snap shot that suits your argument tonight.

skybluetony176 · Oct 23, 2017

ccfcway said:
why are Huddersfield, brighton and burnley in prem league and leeds, aston villa and Sunderland in championship ?

Comes back to tone and environment set at the top again. The difference between owners who couldn’t give a flying one and owners who do and are seen to.

skybluesam66 · Oct 23, 2017

Shrewbury!! Leicester, Huddersfield

no difference at all

Nick · Oct 23, 2017

Hobo said:
It is all relative Nick....ever wondered why Man United Liverpool Arsenal and Tottenham are relatively top of the pile and the likes of Darlington, Hartlepool and York have been bottom?

And now we are in amongst the feeders lower down in the chain. League 2 mate accept it.

What do you mean "accept" it? I'm fully aware of the league we are in.

Terry Gibson's perm · Oct 23, 2017

ccfcway said:
look at Koeman. Sacked today. His win rate at everton was 40%

2nd highest of any everton manager since 1990 !

A stupid sacking who are they going to replace him with?

Dyche the golden boy at the moment but sets his teams up so the opposition get none and they might try to sneak one (sound familiar)
Moyes my god
Ancelotti isn't desperate
I hope they are looking forward to a bit of big Sam

Hope they struggle I hate Everton as they should have gone down during that very iffy wimbeldon game

chinamans view · Oct 23, 2017

why have a manager if they make no difference ?

Terry Gibson's perm · Oct 23, 2017

We need new manager bounce we should employ a manager on monthly contract and then replace

Generally Midfield · Oct 23, 2017

I guess this is one where everyone is right and nobody is wrong becuase you can't imagine even SAF would turn us into European champions but it feels like it wouldn't take much for a manager to get us promoted. Saturday was only second home game I've been to this season and a few people seemed to be really moaning about Robins but we've sacked a lot of mangers in recent years and it feels like we've said a lot of times that a new manager couldn't do any worse than the current one and might do better but we end up getting lower and lower.

rob9872 · Oct 23, 2017

Terry Gibson's perm said:
A stupid sacking who are they going to replace him with?

Dyche the golden boy at the moment but sets his teams up so the opposition get none and they might try to sneak one (sound familiar)
Moyes my god
Ancelotti isn't desperate
I hope they are looking forward to a bit of big Sam

Hope they struggle I hate Everton as they should have gone down during that very iffy wimbeldon game

Although we did all dodgily beat them when champions and they played the kids last game. We won 4-1 and stayed up. Cetyaonly cant be bitter at them for anything like that Wimbledon game though or we'd be as bad as Sunderland fans.

How much difference do managers make? (1 Viewer)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Deleted member 5849

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Administrator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency