How much debt are we actaully in now (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter ccfcway
- Start date
ConnorDevine
Well-Known Member
Good question, i assume it's still the £70m, unless SISU have taken that on
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
club goes into administration, gets docked 10 points...
goes into liquidation, gets docked 10 points
doesnt pay its creditors
doesnt pay the rent
fcuks off out of the city
and yet still £70 million in debt with FL saying they are not suire if they are coming back !
great !
goes into liquidation, gets docked 10 points
doesnt pay its creditors
doesnt pay the rent
fcuks off out of the city
and yet still £70 million in debt with FL saying they are not suire if they are coming back !
great !
Depends on what you mean by CCFC.
CCFC Limited no longer exist, CCFC Holdings Limited might shortly cease to exist and Otium can make up any number to suit the fairy tale they are trying to spin at that moment in time.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Would it not be reduced as any debt in Ltd goes out with Ltd liquidation.
All debtors loose there money, ACL and SISU funds.
Not 100% on this but if ACL can loose everything as we know why would the others not also.
If the case then we only owe what Optium payed for Ltd.
Sounds good if all debt transferred from ccfc to sisu but expect to be wrong as Fisher still in a job.
All debtors loose there money, ACL and SISU funds.
Not 100% on this but if ACL can loose everything as we know why would the others not also.
If the case then we only owe what Optium payed for Ltd.
Sounds good if all debt transferred from ccfc to sisu but expect to be wrong as Fisher still in a job.
Voice_of_Reason
Well-Known Member
Question. Is Otium trading insolvently which is illegal ?
Secured against what exactly? The squad is worthless, Ryton is mortgaged - what other assets could the debt be secured against?
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
in Fishers own words @ one of the forums, money was in the form of a creation of equity,
do we assume that no money changed hands,
a paper transaction therefore,
muddied waters,
but then, of course, the FL are on the case,
aerial bacon,
GIVE US OUR CLUB BACK,
shyster = discreditable methods,
imho, of course
do we assume that no money changed hands,
a paper transaction therefore,
muddied waters,
but then, of course, the FL are on the case,
aerial bacon,
GIVE US OUR CLUB BACK,
shyster = discreditable methods,
imho, of course
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Just to clarify a few things
when TF etc say "its ok we only owe the owners" it is still a debt that gives the owners rights in administration, is repayable, could have interest charged on it if the owners so chose. Amounts disclosed as due to the owners are disclosed as loans. So "we are debt free" is a total misnomer
Equity. Well yes some of the loans could have been converted to equity but I believe only SBS&L has the power to do that in its accounts (ie not in Otium or CCFC H). Equity is however a softer sort of loan. It is a loan that dependent on sale or liquidation may be repaid at nil, part, full, or profit of the original cost. In a liquidation where everything is settled it is the last thing paid out. Instead of being shown as a creditor it is shown as share holders funds. Conversion to equity means in essence the debt moves rank in the order of settlement, so making the balance sheet appear stronger. (thats the basics anyway)
To look at what we actually owe you need to look at the whole group. SBS&L owns Otium Entertainment owns CCFC H owns CCFC Ltd. I have left CCFC Ltd in there because as yet it has not been liquidated and might not be for a few months yet.
At 31/05/11 SBS&L owed SISU 29.7m. Since that time we now know that ARVO Master fund has a debt of £10.75m (it was not settled in the CVA etc). In addition it is reasonable to assume that the club made losses of approx £3m+ for the two years since 31/05/11. In addition Otium must have got £1.5m from somewhere and as it wasnt trading previously a loan from a SISU entity is a reasonable assumption. Add to that a guess that somewhere in the Group the cost of legals etc will be included.
the debts must be heading north of £50m by now. Whether that represents actual cash put in is a different question but even that must be heading £40m in my opinion
How is CCFC capable of repaying that ? It isnt a question of its ok a new stadium will pay for it because we have the income streams.... what about the additional costs, the increased wages, the interest on loans, the additional running costs for 365 days, what happens if no success on the pitch and people dont come? Success on the pitch is a double edged sword the higher you go the greater the income but so too the greater the costs particularly the wages. We are budgeting what £2m in L1?, success in the Championship will possibly cost £9m+ in wages.
doesnt make sense ..... but the bottom line is the club as a whole (that being the SBS&L Group) still has substantial debt with the only trading part being CCFC
when TF etc say "its ok we only owe the owners" it is still a debt that gives the owners rights in administration, is repayable, could have interest charged on it if the owners so chose. Amounts disclosed as due to the owners are disclosed as loans. So "we are debt free" is a total misnomer
Equity. Well yes some of the loans could have been converted to equity but I believe only SBS&L has the power to do that in its accounts (ie not in Otium or CCFC H). Equity is however a softer sort of loan. It is a loan that dependent on sale or liquidation may be repaid at nil, part, full, or profit of the original cost. In a liquidation where everything is settled it is the last thing paid out. Instead of being shown as a creditor it is shown as share holders funds. Conversion to equity means in essence the debt moves rank in the order of settlement, so making the balance sheet appear stronger. (thats the basics anyway)
To look at what we actually owe you need to look at the whole group. SBS&L owns Otium Entertainment owns CCFC H owns CCFC Ltd. I have left CCFC Ltd in there because as yet it has not been liquidated and might not be for a few months yet.
At 31/05/11 SBS&L owed SISU 29.7m. Since that time we now know that ARVO Master fund has a debt of £10.75m (it was not settled in the CVA etc). In addition it is reasonable to assume that the club made losses of approx £3m+ for the two years since 31/05/11. In addition Otium must have got £1.5m from somewhere and as it wasnt trading previously a loan from a SISU entity is a reasonable assumption. Add to that a guess that somewhere in the Group the cost of legals etc will be included.
the debts must be heading north of £50m by now. Whether that represents actual cash put in is a different question but even that must be heading £40m in my opinion
How is CCFC capable of repaying that ? It isnt a question of its ok a new stadium will pay for it because we have the income streams.... what about the additional costs, the increased wages, the interest on loans, the additional running costs for 365 days, what happens if no success on the pitch and people dont come? Success on the pitch is a double edged sword the higher you go the greater the income but so too the greater the costs particularly the wages. We are budgeting what £2m in L1?, success in the Championship will possibly cost £9m+ in wages.
doesnt make sense ..... but the bottom line is the club as a whole (that being the SBS&L Group) still has substantial debt with the only trading part being CCFC
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CCFC PimpRail
New Member
40...., 50....., 70.....? Whatever it is, it's more than the misguided belief that earning extra revenue from tea and pies is going to make a difference...
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
From what OSB says, its clear now that the debts in CCFC are toxic.
Why should the fans pay for years of mismanagement, in my opinion it is time to start over.
Why should the fans pay for years of mismanagement, in my opinion it is time to start over.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Help them out and give them the stadium and all the land around it 
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Can't see how we ever get out of this.
Can't see how SISU think we can get out of this.
If they don't get back to the Ricoh quick we are finished.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Think of a number...x20....divide x2....multiply x4...................In other words whatever SISU feel they are owed, at any given time.......Wankahs!