The police and the tactics were of course largely culpable, but lets not gloss over the issue that many ticketless scousers were in no small part still partially responsible for this. A point that most of Liverpool seems to have conveniently forgotten now that they have another avenue to blame.
The police and the tactics were of course largely culpable, but lets not gloss over the issue that many ticketless scousers were in no small part still partially responsible for this. A point that most of Liverpool seems to have conveniently forgotten now that they have another avenue to blame.
The Only reason that tragedy happened was A.Through allowing the match to proceed in an inadequate Stadium ,which was acknowledged,by far too large an allocation of 15k.in that end ,compounded by a single tunnel into that central section with no means of filtering out sideways
2.The operation on the day lead by chief Inspector Duckenfield was inadequate ,went against previous seasons proceedure,and as rightly mentioned could easily have been us ,anyone who was in that end in 87 knows how potentially lethal it was.
I can read adequetly thank you JHFC and I have seen and read much before today. One report that exonerates them does not cloud my mind or the past 23 years. It is an undisputed fact that many Liverpool fans (by their own admission) travelled right accross Europe without tickets and to hell with the consequences, including some to that game. That day, it was a combination of many things that resulted in this tragedy (admittedly the largest blame laying at the decision to open the gate by the police which I haven't questionned) and not for one minute am I blaming those who died in any way for what happened, but to suggest that other Liverpool fans played no part at all in this is at best naive.
And Torchy, please stick to arguing points rather than hurling insults. It doesn't suit you and detracts from any valid point that you are trying to make. As always there are two sides to most stories but it seems anyone who disagrees with yours is an idiot.
Well, you better contact the Hillsborough Independent Panel then and tell them you have evidence that it was the "Scousers that done it".
Anyone who can still blame the fans after a three year independent review which looked at 400,000 documents in still an idiot in my few.
I was at the Bestival last week. There were loads of people without tickets. Every day I went, I was approached by music fans asking for "spare" tickets. My point is, that whenever there is an event of major interest, there will ALWAYS be those fans who travel to the venue in the hope of obtaining a last minute ticket, so I find it totally unfair to lay any blame on those fans who were simply there to soak up the atmosphere and hopefully obtain a ticket. The actual fault lay with the stupid erected fences, the stewards who herded fans off the pitch who were trying to escape the carnage and the police for lying through their teeth and trying to cover things up for the last 23 years!
Do you really think in light of all of this that without hard evidence which clearly won't be available that any inquiry or government would dare to accuse the fans of being even the remotest bit responsible? I'm sure you were around then, I'm sure you will have encountered the 'friendly' Liverpool support to know exactly what they are or were about in the 80's and then I guess you belive that they travelled without tickets to all games but with the one exception of this particular game where they all behaved impeccably. Yep that would be it!
Do you really think in light of all of this that without hard evidence which clearly won't be available that any inquiry or government would dare to accuse the fans of being even the remotest bit responsible? I'm sure you were around then, I'm sure you will have encountered the 'friendly' Liverpool support to know exactly what they are or were about in the 80's and then I guess you belive that they travelled without tickets to all games but with the one exception of this particular game where they all behaved impeccably. Yep that would be it!
The difference is Rob that the vast majority of Liverpool fans hold their hands up over Heysel and a lot of the wrongdoers from then have since expressed remorse about it (and the club itself did when they played Juventus a few years back). The police of the time have persistently denied wrongdoing, cover ups have taken place, and libellous media went unpunished. It is not so much the incident itself, but all of this behaviour afterwards, that deserves the flak.
Again BSB, I totally agree with all of that and it is completely wrong. That isn't in dispute. What is in dispute imo is that there were other factors aswell that nobody wants to talk about any longer and pretend that they didn't happen.
Rob I respect your right to your oppinion ,but your explanation in this post exposes your prejudices .Those fans on that day were let down by the planners and authorities responsible for law and safety and i'll reiterate that whoever was in that end that day ,be it Forrest or us two years earlier for the QF would have had to live with the same consiquences,and yes I'm all too aware of how the scouse fans could behave .
Again BSB, I totally agree with all of that and it is completely wrong. That isn't in dispute. What is in dispute imo is that there were other factors aswell that nobody wants to talk about any longer and pretend that they didn't happen.
A reminder of the main points:
The panel reported that South Yorkshire police amended statements to remove negative comments about the policing operation
The tragedy was not caused by alcohol-fuelled ticketless fans
41 people, declared dead at 15:15 by the coroner, had the potential to survive
The Sun's source for their expose "The Truth" came from a Sheffield news agency and a local MP, who were fed information by South Yorkshire police.
Rob, I just think you are totally anti-Liverpool. I just cannot believe some of the stuff you are spouting. You will not change my opinion of what REALLY happened on that day. I'm just happy for all those fantastic Liverpool people who never gave up for 23 YEARS until they finally got the truth. People of Liverpool are NOT all "robbing, theiving scallies" as you call them. I find this offensive and think you should retract this comment.
Nothing Bobby. It is an opinion. Mine may differ from yours, but I've never changed an opinion because someone thought I should. As I wasn't there and we can't go back in time to see, then its unlikely my viewpoint will change.
It was 20 years after the Birmingham 6 were cleared and the court decided that they were wrongly imprisoned - am I now supposed to believe they were innocent too?
Nothing Bobby. It is an opinion. Mine may differ from yours, but I've never changed an opinion because someone thought I should. As I wasn't there and we can't go back in time to see, then its unlikely my viewpoint will change.
It was 20 years after the Birmingham 6 were cleared and the court decided that they were wrongly imprisoned - am I now supposed to believe they were innocent too?
Nothing Bobby. It is an opinion. Mine may differ from yours, but I've never changed an opinion because someone thought I should. As I wasn't there and we can't go back in time to see, then its unlikely my viewpoint will change.
It was 20 years after the Birmingham 6 were cleared and the court decided that they were wrongly imprisoned - am I now supposed to believe they were innocent too?
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