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Hamer and Sheaf (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter lordy_87
  • Start date Nov 7, 2020
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Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #36
Frostie said:
Assists are massively unreliable & rarely used in scouting & analysis anymore.

As an example:

Remember when Biamou hit the bar from about 3 yards vs Reading when it looked easier to score?
That would have been an assist for Sheaf.

On the other hand, take O'Hare's goal at Southend last season. He picked up a basic 2 yard sideways pass from McCallum just inside their half then beat multiple players to score a great individual goal.
McCallum got an assist for that.
Click to expand...

This is true
 

harvey098

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #37
covcity4life said:
Best midfield duo since Kelly and Walsh and Kelly and doyle
Click to expand...

And Kelly and Hamer
 

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #38
cc84cov said:
Hyam issue is a right footed playing LCB he’s always coming out onto his weaker foot alwaus said it’s an issue
Click to expand...

Do you bother to read stuff before replying?
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #39
Evo1883 said:
Looking at the opta stats website and looking into key passes, it reads (also said on a couple forums I looked at on the subject) set pieces and crosses from corners don't fall into the key pass category, rather 2nd assist category... Can you clarify or correct me... I'm not completely sure what to take from it
Click to expand...

If a Hamer corner or free kick leads to a direct effort on goal that would be a Key Pass. Conversely the Hamer corners to the back post for Østigård to head back across for teammates for example wouldn't be included as Key Passes as there is another pass required before an attempt at goal.
 
Reactions: Evo1883 and Londonccfcfan

Londonccfcfan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #40
SlowerThanPlatt said:
It’s because he takes set pieces. There open play would be more similar but I don’t have it to hand
Click to expand...

Still in saying that he's so far ahead of other players. They are as Evo states monster stats. It's not like the other 23 teams don't have set piece specialists, some better teams get alot more fouls and corners than we do.

Still incredible stats from Hamer. Surprised daylight is second.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #41
SlowerThanPlatt said:
It’s because he takes set pieces. There open play would be more similar but I don’t have it to hand
Click to expand...

Every team has a player that takes set pieces. This is the dumbest argument.
 

Londonccfcfan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #42
Frostie said:
If a Hamer corner or free kick leads to a direct effort on goal that would be a Key Pass. Conversely the Hamer corners to the back post for Østigård to head back across for teammates for example wouldn't be included as Key Passes as there is another pass required before an attempt at goal.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this insight Frostie. It's brilliant. I find it really interesting. Indeed. And surprising. But it's facts. So can't really argue with it.

Think Hamer has missed out on a few key passes as like you say there was another pass before the goal.

E.g. Biamous chest down for Norwich Goal. Also his ball for Giles vs Derby was incredible. As you say it was the ball before.

This week started the move for his free kick goal. Won ball in our own half then played one two with Shipley and then won free kick. From which he scored.
 

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #43
shmmeee said:
Every team has a player that takes set pieces. This is the dumbest argument.
Click to expand...
He was asking why Sheaf’s are so far apart from Hamer’s
 

Londonccfcfan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #44
shmmeee said:
Every team has a player that takes set pieces. This is the dumbest argument.
Click to expand...

Exactly the point I made. Post before yours.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #45
SlowerThanPlatt said:
He was asking why Sheaf’s are so far apart from Hamer’s
Click to expand...

Oh then that was the dumbest reply
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #46
Londonccfcfan said:
Exactly the point I made. Post before yours.
Click to expand...

Fine I’m going back to sleep
 
Reactions: Frostie and Londonccfcfan

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #47
Londonccfcfan said:
Still in saying that he's so far ahead of other players. They are as Evo states monster stats. It's not like the other 23 teams don't have set piece specialists, some better teams get alot more fouls and corners than we do.

Still incredible stats from Hamer. Surprised daylight is second.
Click to expand...

Posted this in another thread but very interesting (to me at least!)

 
Reactions: Londonccfcfan

Londonccfcfan

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #48
Frostie said:
Posted this in another thread but very interesting (to me at least!)

View attachment 18200View attachment 18201
Click to expand...

This stuff is brilliant.
 
Reactions: mr_monkey and Frostie

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #49
We really need someone dominant in the air who can get on the end of balls into the box.

Basically we’ve learned the best dribblers in the league are our wingbacks, so crosses there. We’ve got one of the best set piece takers in the league and one of the most creative midfielders all round. We’ve got one of the best deep lying play makers with the some of the best long pass accuracy.

And on the end of it all is either a midget or a L1 player if we’re honest.

What stats tells us the best target man?
 
Reactions: mark82

cc84cov

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 7, 2021
  • #50
shmmeee said:
We really need someone dominant in the air who can get on the end of balls into the box.

Basically we’ve learned the best dribblers in the league are our wingbacks, so crosses there. We’ve got one of the best set piece takers in the league and one of the most creative midfielders all round. We’ve got one of the best deep lying play makers with the some of the best long pass accuracy.

And on the end of it all is either a midget or a L1 player if we’re honest.

What stats tells us the best target man?
Click to expand...
Problem is finding one I’m sure robins knows the crack
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #51
shmmeee said:
We really need someone dominant in the air who can get on the end of balls into the box.

Basically we’ve learned the best dribblers in the league are our wingbacks, so crosses there. We’ve got one of the best set piece takers in the league and one of the most creative midfielders all round. We’ve got one of the best deep lying play makers with the some of the best long pass accuracy.

And on the end of it all is either a midget or a L1 player if we’re honest.

What stats tells us the best target man?
Click to expand...

Subjective but for me a good combo of...
Aerial Duels
Touches in Box
Headed Goals
Ball Retention
xA and/or 2nd assists
Passes to Opp. Penalty Area

One that's really impressed me this season is Colin Kazim-Richards at Derby, really unexpectedly productive.
 
Reactions: shmmeee
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #52
shmmeee said:
We really need someone dominant in the air who can get on the end of balls into the box.

Basically we’ve learned the best dribblers in the league are our wingbacks, so crosses there. We’ve got one of the best set piece takers in the league and one of the most creative midfielders all round. We’ve got one of the best deep lying play makers with the some of the best long pass accuracy.

And on the end of it all is either a midget or a L1 player if we’re honest.

What stats tells us the best target man?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying he's the answer but I do feel Gnanduillet would fit the bill quite well. He's he's good in the air, has great hold up play, wins ariel duels and is able to cause havoc to an oppositions back line. He's not necessarily just a target man either as doesn't mind having the ball at his feet and is actually quite mobile for his size.

I think he'd be a good fit.
 
Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
Reactions: shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #53
One thing I will say, Matty James doesn’t come off well on those stats graphs. Other than tackling he’s well below our current midfield.

Makes me wonder if the plan isn’t Sheaf and Hamer further forward and James in front of the defence.
 
Reactions: mark82

Bumberclart

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #54
Sheaf is obviously a good player, but his football brain sometimes lets him down due to inexperience, He doesn't misplace many passes, but when he does they are usually in the middle of our half and put us under pressure.

He just needs match experience to learn that sometimes you just need to hoof it and not look for a clever pass. that will come with time. He's still only 22.
 
Reactions: mark82

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #55
Evo1883 said:
Short pass is obvious tbh, part of the argument... Long pass accuracy is just that, accuracy, could pass long 4 times a year if they all hit its 100%....
I am however surprised by the interceptions and tackles... I am ofcourse pleased that this is the case.


Still not sold though
Click to expand...

Has the 13th highest number of long passes in the league.
 

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #56
shmmeee said:
One thing I will say, Matty James doesn’t come off well on those stats graphs. Other than tackling he’s well below our current midfield.

Makes me wonder if the plan isn’t Sheaf and Hamer further forward and James in front of the defence.
Click to expand...

Diamond would make some sense with our current players.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #57
Bumberclart said:
Sheaf is obviously a good player, but his football brain sometimes lets him down due to inexperience, He doesn't misplace many passes, but when he does they are usually in the middle of our half and put us under pressure.

He just needs match experience to learn that sometimes you just need to hoof it and not look for a clever pass. that will come with time. He's still only 22.
Click to expand...

That’s the key thing. His mistakes are few and far between, but they are glaring when they happen. That, unfortunately, sticks in the mind.
 

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #58
mark82 said:
Has the 13th highest number of long passes in the league.
Click to expand...
Yea Read through it all, he's doing well stat wise .. Fair play
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #59
shmmeee said:
One thing I will say, Matty James doesn’t come off well on those stats graphs. Other than tackling he’s well below our current midfield.

Makes me wonder if the plan isn’t Sheaf and Hamer further forward and James in front of the defence.
Click to expand...
Barnsley already said he was a very unspectacular player but much like Kelly breaks up play and gives it to others to play. Exactly what we are missing really. Someone to do the dirty work and let Sheaf and Hamer make the hollywood passes.
 

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #60
KenilworthSkyBlue said:
I'm not saying he's the answer but I do feel Gnanduillet would fit the bill quite well. He's he's good in the air, has great hold up play, wins ariel duels and is able to cause havoc to an oppositions back line. He's not necessarily just a target man either as doesn't mind having the ball at his feet and is actually quite mobile for his size.

I think he'd be a good fit.
Click to expand...

Wondering with Gnanduillet whether he would qualify to come back into the country due to his previous experience here. Not sure if he would.
 
K

KenilworthSkyBlue

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #61
Ccfcisparks said:
Barnsley already said he was a very unspectacular player but much like Kelly breaks up play and gives it to others to play. Exactly what we are missing really. Someone to do the dirty work and let Sheaf and Hamer make the hollywood passes.
Click to expand...

Equally, James is bringing other qualities to the table which he referred to in his 'First Words' interview. Experience and leadership.
 
Reactions: Frostie and Ccfcisparks

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #62
Hamer and Sheaf,
Hamer and Sheaf,
Chugging along on the old Ragdoll,
Hamer and Sheaf,
Hamer and Sheaf,
And Kellz he steers their boat.
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #63
KenilworthSkyBlue said:
Equally, James is bringing other qualities to the table which he referred to in his 'First Words' interview. Experience and leadership.
Click to expand...

This
 

speedie87

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 8, 2021
  • #64
mark82 said:
Diamond would make some sense with our current players.
Click to expand...

I never want to see a diamond again
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2021
  • #65
speedie87 said:
I never want to see a diamond again
Click to expand...

We’ve been playing it occasionally with Sheaf at the base, Allen and Hamer in the middle and O’Hare at the tip.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 9, 2021
  • #66
Having James and kelly (when he's back) alongside the likes of hamer and Sheaf, with O'hare as an impact player isn't a bad midfield.

Just need a fit striker.
 
C

cov donkey kick

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 10, 2021
  • #67
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Having James and kelly (when he's back) alongside the likes of hamer and Sheaf, with O'hare as an impact player isn't a bad midfield.

Just need a fit striker.
Click to expand...
Agree, jigsaw is nearly complete just a finisher needed
 
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