Hamer and Sheaf

Evo1883

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May 25, 2013
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Assists are massively unreliable & rarely used in scouting & analysis anymore.

As an example:

Remember when Biamou hit the bar from about 3 yards vs Reading when it looked easier to score?
That would have been an assist for Sheaf.

On the other hand, take O'Hare's goal at Southend last season. He picked up a basic 2 yard sideways pass from McCallum just inside their half then beat multiple players to score a great individual goal.
McCallum got an assist for that.
This is true
 

Frostie

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Jan 31, 2011
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Looking at the opta stats website and looking into key passes, it reads (also said on a couple forums I looked at on the subject) set pieces and crosses from corners don't fall into the key pass category, rather 2nd assist category... Can you clarify or correct me... I'm not completely sure what to take from it
If a Hamer corner or free kick leads to a direct effort on goal that would be a Key Pass. Conversely the Hamer corners to the back post for Østigård to head back across for teammates for example wouldn't be included as Key Passes as there is another pass required before an attempt at goal.
 

Londonccfcfan

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Oct 12, 2015
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It’s because he takes set pieces. There open play would be more similar but I don’t have it to hand
Still in saying that he's so far ahead of other players. They are as Evo states monster stats. It's not like the other 23 teams don't have set piece specialists, some better teams get alot more fouls and corners than we do.

Still incredible stats from Hamer. Surprised daylight is second.
 

Londonccfcfan

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Oct 12, 2015
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If a Hamer corner or free kick leads to a direct effort on goal that would be a Key Pass. Conversely the Hamer corners to the back post for Østigård to head back across for teammates for example wouldn't be included as Key Passes as there is another pass required before an attempt at goal.
Thanks for this insight Frostie. It's brilliant. I find it really interesting. Indeed. And surprising. But it's facts. So can't really argue with it.

Think Hamer has missed out on a few key passes as like you say there was another pass before the goal.

E.g. Biamous chest down for Norwich Goal. Also his ball for Giles vs Derby was incredible. As you say it was the ball before.

This week started the move for his free kick goal. Won ball in our own half then played one two with Shipley and then won free kick. From which he scored.
 

Frostie

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Still in saying that he's so far ahead of other players. They are as Evo states monster stats. It's not like the other 23 teams don't have set piece specialists, some better teams get alot more fouls and corners than we do.

Still incredible stats from Hamer. Surprised daylight is second.
Posted this in another thread but very interesting (to me at least!)

20210105_212737.jpgScreenshot_20210105-212752~2.png
 
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shmmeee

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Jul 11, 2011
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We really need someone dominant in the air who can get on the end of balls into the box.

Basically we’ve learned the best dribblers in the league are our wingbacks, so crosses there. We’ve got one of the best set piece takers in the league and one of the most creative midfielders all round. We’ve got one of the best deep lying play makers with the some of the best long pass accuracy.

And on the end of it all is either a midget or a L1 player if we’re honest.

What stats tells us the best target man?
 
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cc84cov

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We really need someone dominant in the air who can get on the end of balls into the box.

Basically we’ve learned the best dribblers in the league are our wingbacks, so crosses there. We’ve got one of the best set piece takers in the league and one of the most creative midfielders all round. We’ve got one of the best deep lying play makers with the some of the best long pass accuracy.

And on the end of it all is either a midget or a L1 player if we’re honest.

What stats tells us the best target man?
Problem is finding one I’m sure robins knows the crack
 

Frostie

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Jan 31, 2011
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We really need someone dominant in the air who can get on the end of balls into the box.

Basically we’ve learned the best dribblers in the league are our wingbacks, so crosses there. We’ve got one of the best set piece takers in the league and one of the most creative midfielders all round. We’ve got one of the best deep lying play makers with the some of the best long pass accuracy.

And on the end of it all is either a midget or a L1 player if we’re honest.

What stats tells us the best target man?
Subjective but for me a good combo of...
Aerial Duels
Touches in Box
Headed Goals
Ball Retention
xA and/or 2nd assists
Passes to Opp. Penalty Area

One that's really impressed me this season is Colin Kazim-Richards at Derby, really unexpectedly productive.
 
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KenilworthSkyBlue

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Nov 20, 2019
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We really need someone dominant in the air who can get on the end of balls into the box.

Basically we’ve learned the best dribblers in the league are our wingbacks, so crosses there. We’ve got one of the best set piece takers in the league and one of the most creative midfielders all round. We’ve got one of the best deep lying play makers with the some of the best long pass accuracy.

And on the end of it all is either a midget or a L1 player if we’re honest.

What stats tells us the best target man?
I'm not saying he's the answer but I do feel Gnanduillet would fit the bill quite well. He's he's good in the air, has great hold up play, wins ariel duels and is able to cause havoc to an oppositions back line. He's not necessarily just a target man either as doesn't mind having the ball at his feet and is actually quite mobile for his size.

I think he'd be a good fit.
 
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shmmeee

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One thing I will say, Matty James doesn’t come off well on those stats graphs. Other than tackling he’s well below our current midfield.

Makes me wonder if the plan isn’t Sheaf and Hamer further forward and James in front of the defence.
 
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Bumberclart

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Sheaf is obviously a good player, but his football brain sometimes lets him down due to inexperience, He doesn't misplace many passes, but when he does they are usually in the middle of our half and put us under pressure.

He just needs match experience to learn that sometimes you just need to hoof it and not look for a clever pass. that will come with time. He's still only 22.
 
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mark82

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Short pass is obvious tbh, part of the argument... Long pass accuracy is just that, accuracy, could pass long 4 times a year if they all hit its 100%....
I am however surprised by the interceptions and tackles... I am ofcourse pleased that this is the case.


Still not sold though 🤷
Has the 13th highest number of long passes in the league. 🤷
 

mark82

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One thing I will say, Matty James doesn’t come off well on those stats graphs. Other than tackling he’s well below our current midfield.

Makes me wonder if the plan isn’t Sheaf and Hamer further forward and James in front of the defence.
Diamond would make some sense with our current players.
 
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SBAndy

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Sheaf is obviously a good player, but his football brain sometimes lets him down due to inexperience, He doesn't misplace many passes, but when he does they are usually in the middle of our half and put us under pressure.

He just needs match experience to learn that sometimes you just need to hoof it and not look for a clever pass. that will come with time. He's still only 22.
That’s the key thing. His mistakes are few and far between, but they are glaring when they happen. That, unfortunately, sticks in the mind.
 

Ccfcisparks

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May 13, 2011
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One thing I will say, Matty James doesn’t come off well on those stats graphs. Other than tackling he’s well below our current midfield.

Makes me wonder if the plan isn’t Sheaf and Hamer further forward and James in front of the defence.
Barnsley already said he was a very unspectacular player but much like Kelly breaks up play and gives it to others to play. Exactly what we are missing really. Someone to do the dirty work and let Sheaf and Hamer make the hollywood passes.
 

mark82

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I'm not saying he's the answer but I do feel Gnanduillet would fit the bill quite well. He's he's good in the air, has great hold up play, wins ariel duels and is able to cause havoc to an oppositions back line. He's not necessarily just a target man either as doesn't mind having the ball at his feet and is actually quite mobile for his size.

I think he'd be a good fit.
Wondering with Gnanduillet whether he would qualify to come back into the country due to his previous experience here. Not sure if he would.
 

KenilworthSkyBlue

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Nov 20, 2019
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Barnsley already said he was a very unspectacular player but much like Kelly breaks up play and gives it to others to play. Exactly what we are missing really. Someone to do the dirty work and let Sheaf and Hamer make the hollywood passes.
Equally, James is bringing other qualities to the table which he referred to in his 'First Words' interview. Experience and leadership.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Aug 16, 2018
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Having James and kelly (when he's back) alongside the likes of hamer and Sheaf, with O'hare as an impact player isn't a bad midfield.

Just need a fit striker.