Gyokeres to Everton- Two in exchange? (1 Viewer)

CCFC54321 · Jan 8, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
The recruitment team left of their own account, the weren't dismissed

Your correct. But why do people look for another job?

PVA · Jan 8, 2023

CCFC54321 said:
Your correct. But why do people look for another job?

A whole host of reasons.

In this case he was headhunted for a more senior role.

fernandopartridge · Jan 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It could mean anything though. Someone on here is claiming it is a bit more sinister than that. We don't really know.

It still doesn't detract that we've signed some terrible players.

Name me a team that doesn't. We've signed more good than bad and raised the standard of the team a number of levels

rexo87 · Jan 8, 2023

Given the budget we have here our recruitment team have to be spot on and better than 95% of the league. If not then we will fail and they have to move on. Badlan did a good job with some but I question how many were his calls. Hamer, Sheaf yes. Vik for example looked like a last min panic loan that worked out brilliantly. You then have the 10's of shocking signings in the last few seasons.

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Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jan 8, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
Name me a team that doesn't. We've signed more good than bad and raised the standard of the team a number of levels

'Name me a team that hasn't signed bad players' isn't an argument.

our squad is probably weaker than last season and we have a large amount of players that aren't good enough. The margin for error could and needs to be a lot better. That doesn't mean we haven't signed some good players, and that doesn't mean it wouldn't be nicer if the budget was a bit better.

SHUNT31 · Jan 8, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
This is a hill I am going to die on, but I just don't agree with this argument at all. For a club our size to be in League 2, we rightly should be able to attract and recruit players which are above the level. Look at where we are now, in the Championship. We are struggling to put a team out, and didn't have the quality to beat a non-league team. We have a slim budget - granted, but when that is the case, you have a very small margin for error, and we haven't got it right.

We have three or four players which would be regarded as very successful, and a handful after that who have more than done a job. The rest are pretty shite.

This season:

Palmer - Doing alright, but on massive wages but took a big part of our budget on a three year deal which is madness.
Panzo - Probably not a convenient time to discuss him after yesterday.
Doyle - Not good enough in my view.
Adaramolna - Terrible signing.

2021/2022 season:

Gyokeres - Massive success.
Waghorn - Massive disaster.
Bidwell - Success.
Enobakhare - Complete joke.
Moore - Decent for one season, now sinking faster than the titanic.
Kane - Turning out to be a disaster.
Sheaf - Success.
JCS - Reasonable, but was injured half the time.
Maatsen - Made an overall positive impact.

2020/2021 season:

Hamer - Massive success.
Da Costa - Massive disaster.
O'Hare - Massive success.
Walker - Terrible.
Reid - Not good enough.
Hillsner - Not good enough.
Tavares - Not good enough.
Ostigard - Success.
James - Success.
Giles - Made a reasonable impact.

There is a few patches here with players who we loaned out and came back etc, so I might have missed one or two (that includes Kastaneer), but considering our wage budget, there is far far too much shite in there. We have then been handing out long term deals for players that aren't good enough, or renewing contracts of players (granted slightly different issue) which has been mind-boggling.

It isn't only their fault, but the success rate of the recruitment department needs to be better.

Agree with most of your judgements.

Doyle not good enough? Think he’s been very good personally.

Palmer adds something different. Still getting up to speed, which considering we are 24 games in seems mad but he has barely played last 2/3 years.

Matty James was a massive success and arguably the reason we are still in the championship. His leadership during the second half 2020/21 kept us up. Was a shame he didn’t sign permanently.

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ccfc1234 · Jan 8, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
And how come we have Gyokeres, Hamer, Sheaf and O'Hare?

This post is a bit off. While there have been some scouting successes your list does Robins and AVs coaching a slight disservice.

Gyokeres - The Brighton scouting team (who I rate as the best in the Country. Look at their net spend and the likes of Bissoma, Caicado, McAllister to name a few.) Did their homework on Vik he went to Swwansa was poor and we took a punt and Robins and AV played to his strengths and got the best out of him. Well done to recruitment for finding out he was available but I think the management team take most the credit.

Hamer - big win for the recruitment department especially Hamer who was plucked from the Dutch league.

Sheaf - An arsenal academy lad who was on loan in our division at the time and playing well was not hard to spot and was far from plucked from obscurity.

OHare - was on loan at a lower level and to the passing fan was obviously a level above. A recruitment win.

On the flip side there have been long contracts given to Hilstner, DaCosta, Waghorn (who had his least mobile and pooest scoring return the season before we signed him). Moore was a number 2 and has a horrible saves to shots ratio. Will not go back as far as Kasta and Jobello and all the dross Badlan saddled us with in the U23s of who none look like they will be long term 1st team players.

All in all they were not terrible but I feel our success is more down to the coaching staff than the recruitment team. But Hamer no question was a great spot and had there been 2 or 3 more of that ilk I would be concerned that Blackpool had taken a key part of the club's operating model.

SkyBlueScottie · Jan 8, 2023

The main problem we have had is that we have not sold players at the right time. If we were to follow the method of buying low, selling high, then O Hare and Gus probably should have gone. 2 players that we got for a million quid that could have gone out the door for 15 million. Problem is, there was clearly some disconnect between Boddy / Robins throughout the summer regarding our situation. It also seems we have not been actively looking for replacements for any of our better players, mainly due to the fact that the club will not risk paying out 2 or 3 million for a player before getting a sizeable fee for the player they are replacing. This is where the club needs to be ran better, we dont need to be looking for a Gus Hamer million quid player we can actually look at getting a 3 million quid player in, due to the fact Gus is going for 5 million... * Im not suggesting that the figures are accurate or that Gus should be sold, just highlighting how the club should be going about the business.

Speedie's Head · Jan 9, 2023

ccfc1234 said:
...Badlan saddled us with in the U23s of who none look like they will be long term 1st team players.

The higher up you are the more difficult it is to get players moving between u23 and 1st team. Even harder now that it's u-21 level. Remember those lads won their division. That's not a feasible model for building a Championship squad on it's own.

I think Badlan had maybe run his course and it was time for a refresh

Esoterica · Jan 9, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
The risks have to be well calculated though. I think with a fair amount of our deadwood at the moment, it hasn't been the case. It's alright to say the recruitment team are operating on restrictions, but that's also their job. They know they aren't working for Man City.

I'm genuinely not surprised we have a new recruitment team for the reasons the poster above has suggested to be honest.

How do you calculate those risks well though when you don't have the budget to sign ready made players?

PVA · Jan 9, 2023

Speedie's Head said:
The higher up you are the more difficult it is to get players moving between u23 and 1st team. Even harder now that it's u-21 level. Remember those lads won their division. That's not a feasible model for building a Championship squad on it's own.

I think Badlan had maybe run his course and it was time for a refresh

Plus some of those guys are just signed as filler. It’s impossible to sign 10 or so young talents who are expected to make it into the first team - imagine how much that would cost. If we want to put a 23s (or 21s as it is now) team out we need enough numbers and that means signing players who are there literally to make up the numbers, without ever progressing to the first team. Obviously they still need to be of a certain level.

And that’s true for all teams, not just us.

Nick · Jan 9, 2023

Esoterica said:
How do you calculate those risks well though when you don't have the budget to sign ready made players?

To be fair, most of the ones we have seemingly bombed off should have been ready-made and cost accordingly.

Moore, Waghorn, Kane, Walker for starters.

Offhegoes · Jan 9, 2023

I think O'Hare was all but sold at the end of July to Burnley (before his injury), and I am sure Robins had 3-4 players lined up to go based on that transfer going through. It didn't, and then the pitch debacle led to the quick fire sale of Hyam, and nobody brought in. Hence the small squad. Also Todd Kane was apparently lined up to leave before getting injured.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jan 9, 2023

PVA said:
Plus some of those guys are just signed as filler. It’s impossible to sign 10 or so young talents who are expected to make it into the first team - imagine how much that would cost. If we want to put a 23s (or 21s as it is now) team out we need enough numbers and that means signing players who are there literally to make up the numbers, without ever progressing to the first team. Obviously they still need to be of a certain level.

And that’s true for all teams, not just us.

I think the decision to make the U21/23 rather than a reserve league has actually been detrimental to development.

It's basically mollycoddling the players and they don't have experience of competitive first team football and so making that jump up is much harder. What do most clubs do with a decent U21 prospect they want to develop? They send them out on loan to get the experience because playing U21 isn't going to be that much different from playing U18 so what chance is there of real progression?

U21 has led to us taking on a number of youngsters who very much look like they won't make the grade pretty much just to make up numbers in the U21's. If we had a reserve team you could just take on a select few, playing alongside experienced pros who are out of favour/coming back from injury and they'd learn a lot more from that.

With a reserve team, squad players get some form of competitive game to keep them a bit sharper, youngsters get a more testing experience for their development and the overall quality improves because you're not just taking youngsters on just to make up the numbers.

Mcbean · Jan 9, 2023

I would say that one good product from the youth teams pays for all the costs ! Madison , Wilson - Christie ? Coming to us soon more youth team players in the top squad - pure economics

Esoterica · Jan 9, 2023

Nick said:
To be fair, most of the ones we have seemingly bombed off should have been ready-made and cost accordingly.

Moore, Waghorn, Kane, Walker for starters.

The first 3 were though. Moore played a decent first season, Waghorn did ok at the very start then got Covid and injuries which the recruitment team can’t be blamed for. Kane did ok to start with and we don’t really know why he got bombed out do we? Walker was a long term target for Robins.

Players like Hilsner and DaCosta were awful but cost a quarter of a decent Championship level player and if we felt we could develop whatever raw attributes they had, then I'd say that was a calculated risk.

Skyblueweeman · Jan 9, 2023

Back on topic....if Vik does go now or in the summer, a cash plus player/s deal is ideal really. If we got £18m and someone like Simms and the other fella in for at least the rest of the season, that's good business in my eyes.

I know MR wouldn't get £18m...Brighton would get about £1.3m from it and the club would use some for running costs. I'd be flabbergasted (even by Coventry City FC standards...) if MR didn't get anything from £18m.

I'd love to keep Vik...the fact is that he'll leave at some point. End of the season would be better (especially if he continues scoring) but if £18m plus two fairly decent players turns out to be correct - from Everton or anyone else - I'd accept that.

Frostie · Jan 9, 2023

Skyblueweeman said:
Back on topic....if Vik does go now or in the summer, a cash plus player/s deal is ideal really. If we got £18m and someone like Simms and the other fella in for at least the rest of the season, that's good business in my eyes.

I don't think MR would see signing a player who can't play for us as good business.

Skyblueweeman · Jan 9, 2023

Frostie said:
I don't think MR would see signing a player who can't play for us as good business.

* someone like Simms....

shmmeee · Jan 9, 2023

rexo87 said:
Given the budget we have here our recruitment team have to be spot on and better than 95% of the league. If not then we will fail and they have to move on. Badlan did a good job with some but I question how many were his calls. Hamer, Sheaf yes. Vik for example looked like a last min panic loan that worked out brilliantly. You then have the 10's of shocking signings in the last few seasons.

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Please name the 20 shocking signings we’ve made since Robins came in.

shmmeee · Jan 9, 2023

Being rational about it, we should sell Vik this window. Will be a tough six months to the summer but money in the bank for a decent rebuild then and can hit the ground running identifying targets rather than waiting for a deal to go through.

Macca · Jan 9, 2023

shmmeee said:
Being rational about it, we should sell Vik this window. Will be a tough six months to the summer but money in the bank for a decent rebuild then and can hit the ground running identifying targets rather than waiting for a deal to go through.

Particularly with our injury luck. End up like Callum situation. Can’t play for us and lost a financial asset for some time

AFCCOVENTRY · Jan 9, 2023

Skyblueweeman said:
Back on topic....if Vik does go now or in the summer, a cash plus player/s deal is ideal really. If we got £18m and someone like Simms and the other fella in for at least the rest of the season, that's good business in my eyes.

I know MR wouldn't get £18m...Brighton would get about £1.3m from it and the club would use some for running costs. I'd be flabbergasted (even by Coventry City FC standards...) if MR didn't get anything from £18m.

I'd love to keep Vik...the fact is that he'll leave at some point. End of the season would be better (especially if he continues scoring) but if £18m plus two fairly decent players turns out to be correct - from Everton or anyone else - I'd accept that.

As long as it isn’t anything like the Wilson deal when we sold him to Bournemouth. We got some of the most gash players in return!

ProfessorbyGrace · Jan 9, 2023

I think Vik will have to think seriously about any move to a Premiership that’s in the bottom 3 or above. He won’t just strut into the first team and start banging goals in, especially at Everton. A negative move like that would stunt his skill growth, and affect his confidence.

He’s better off staying, putting some hard graft in, develop those skills and take stock in the summer. At least, that’s the more logical thing to do.
Oh and Everton can shove their £18 million right up their toffee makers.

Grendel · Jan 9, 2023

ProfessorbyGrace said:
I think Vik will have to think seriously about any move to a Premiership that’s in the bottom 3 or above. He won’t just strut into the first team and start banging goals in, especially at Everton. A negative move like that would stunt his skill growth, and affect his confidence.

He’s better off staying, putting some hard graft in, develop those skills and take stock in the summer. At least, that’s the more logical thing to do.
Oh and Everton can shove their £18 million right up their toffee makers.

I don’t think Callum O hare will advise him that

AFCCOVENTRY · Jan 9, 2023

One of the players offered, Broadhead is off to Ipswich.

rexo87 · Jan 9, 2023

shmmeee said:
Being rational about it, we should sell Vik this window. Will be a tough six months to the summer but money in the bank for a decent rebuild then and can hit the ground running identifying targets rather than waiting for a deal to go through.

we would probably go down

lord_garrincha · Jan 9, 2023

shmmeee said:
Please name the 20 shocking signings we’ve made since Robins came in.

Ignoring the dev players & ones who got injured when in the 1st team, there's probably half of that bought in on a perm.

Vicenti, Ogogo & Brown, Kastaneer, Hillsner, Dacosta, Josh Reid, Bright... and you would have to now include Waghorn & Moore.

There are other lesser lights (Pask etc.) but not truly shocking.

PVA · Jan 9, 2023

rexo87 said:
we would probably go down

We stayed up with Biamou leading the line for half a season tbf

MAFF · Jan 9, 2023

shmmeee said:
Please name the 20 shocking signings we’ve made since Robins came in.

Peter Vincenti
Tony Andreu
Carl Baker
Josh Barrett
Jordan Maguire-Drew
Reise Allassani
Junior Brown
Abu Ogogo
Charlie Wakefield
David Meyler
Wesley Jobello
Gervane Kastaneer
Josh Pask
Julien Dacosta
Marcel Hilßner
Tyler Walker
Josh Reid
Martyn Waghorn
Simon Moore
Bright Enobakhare
Todd Kane

Northeast sky blue · Jan 9, 2023

The way our season is going, he'll probably get injured and be out for weeks

rexo87 · Jan 9, 2023

MrMAF said:
Peter Vincenti
Tony Andreu
Carl Baker
Josh Barrett
Jordan Maguire-Drew
Reise Allassani
Junior Brown
Abu Ogogo
Charlie Wakefield
David Meyler
Wesley Jobello
Gervane Kastaneer
Josh Pask
Julien Dacosta
Marcel Hilßner
Tyler Walker
Josh Reid
Martyn Waghorn
Simon Moore
Bright Enobakhare
Todd Kane

Thanks, because i really couldnt be bothered

Skybluefaz · Jan 9, 2023

shmmeee said:
Being rational about it, we should sell Vik this window. Will be a tough six months to the summer but money in the bank for a decent rebuild then and can hit the ground running identifying targets rather than waiting for a deal to go through.

Was thinking similar myself yesterday. Its a risk but he's going to go eventually, so probably cash in on desperate premier league clubs now.

covhead1 · Jan 9, 2023

We've got to hang on to Vik at least until the summer.
As for a swap involving players from Neverton, hahahaha

PVA · Jan 9, 2023

MrMAF said:
Peter Vincenti
Tony Andreu
Carl Baker
Josh Barrett
Jordan Maguire-Drew
Reise Allassani
Junior Brown
Abu Ogogo
Charlie Wakefield
David Meyler
Wesley Jobello
Gervane Kastaneer
Josh Pask
Julien Dacosta
Marcel Hilßner
Tyler Walker
Josh Reid
Martyn Waghorn
Simon Moore
Bright Enobakhare
Todd Kane

I think it’s harsh to call a lot of those shocking. Bad yes, but shocking no.

Eg Andreu was fine, then did his ACL
Jobello – as above
Kane and Moore have been poor, not shocking
Walker has been OK
Pask was fine in L1

Don’t get me wrong some of them are shocking, but not all of them.

Also this is not unique to us, every club makes plenty of bad and shocking signings.

Gyokeres to Everton- Two in exchange? (1 Viewer)

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