Gyokeres Deal Details (2 Viewers)

Deleted member 9744 · Dec 6, 2023

The Philosopher said:
No one here is infallible and there are times when I do question Robins’ logic (it is allowed you know). It’s ok to question for example, why Ayari started last game; there may be a good reason but as fans the majority don’t see it. I think everyone on here, no matter what they say about the Dabo subject, has questioned why MR made a certain decision at some point. It happens. Even MR admits wrong decisions, see Wrexham for details.

It will always be a mystery as to why Bidwell (set piece dead ball taker) and skipper Fadz or even Ben Wilson weren’t encouraged / pre-determined to go up ahead of Dabo. Yes, they too could have missed or whatever but Dabo would not have been in many people’s list of who should go next.

Anyway. It’s done now and that’s that but it’ll always be a rare mad decision in my mind.

There is a lot of nonsense being uttered about Dabo taking that penalty. Any professional player will have the technical ability to take a penalty but there is so much more to it than that. It is much more about temperament and confidence, especially in that sort of match. Dabo stood up and credit to him for that but unfortunately he failed to score. That was always going to happen to someone and sadly for us it was one of our players. Even the greatest players in the world miss penalties, Messi quite a few and Haarland this season.

The idea that Bidwell, who has scored one (freak) goal in 74 appearances for us and has a similar strike rate throughout his career; McFadzean, who let's face it is hardly the the cleanest striker of a ball; or Wilson should have been forced to take a penalty ahead of Dabo if they felt less confident to do so is absurd.

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 6, 2023

lordsummerisle said:
Dabo had the balls to put his hands up, kept expecting Fadz to take one, but obviously didn't fancy it.

Bidwell too

Legia Sky Blue · Dec 6, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
There is a lot of nonsense being uttered about Dabo taking that penalty. Any professional player will have the technical ability to take a penalty but there is so much more to it than that. It is much more about temperament and confidence, especially in that sort of match. Dabo stood up and credit to him for that but unfortunately he failed to score. That was always going to happen to someone and sadly for us it was one of our players. Even the greatest players in the world miss penalties, Messi quite a few and Haarland this season.

The idea that Bidwell, who has scored one (freak) goal in 74 appearances for us and has a similar strike rate throughout his career; McFadzean, who let's face it is hardly the the cleanest striker of a ball; or Wilson should have been forced to take a penalty ahead of Dabo if they felt less confident to do so is absurd.

Technically you are correct, but mindset is ultra important in that situation. I remember a great quote from that day along the lines of 'Dabo walked up to the ball with the air of a man condemned to death'. His body language gave away his metal turmoil! I suspect any of Bidwell, Fadz or even Wilson would have been more outwardly confident, and would have simply put their laces through the ball rather than trying the intricate penalty Dabo tried.

Seeing Luton giving Arsenal a good game last night, with most of their Championship team in place doesn't help closure from that game either!

Deleted member 9744 · Dec 6, 2023

Legia Sky Blue said:
Technically you are correct, but mindset is ultra important in that situation. I remember a great quote from that day along the lines of 'Dabo walked up to the ball with the air of a man condemned to death'. His body language gave away his metal turmoil! I suspect any of Bidwell, Fadz or even Wilson would have been more outwardly confident, and would have simply put their laces through the ball rather than trying the intricate penalty Dabo tried.

Seeing Luton giving Arsenal a good game last night, with most of their Championship team in place doesn't help closure from that game either!

You are right it is predominately about mindset but there is no evidence at all that Bidwell, McFadzean or Wilson would have looked any more confident. Indeed almost certainly the opposite would be true as they clearly didn't feel as confident as him to take a penalty.

SlowerThanPlatt · Dec 6, 2023

I hope Blind faith doesn’t wander into this thread

robbiethemole · Dec 6, 2023

TomRad85 said:
If we end up getting another 10 then we've done ok. The amount Sheffield Utd paid for those 2 shit houses is criminal tbf.

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or in Mcburnie's case, the price for a criminal is criminal

clint van damme · Dec 6, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
There is a lot of nonsense being uttered about Dabo taking that penalty. Any professional player will have the technical ability to take a penalty but there is so much more to it than that. It is much more about temperament and confidence, especially in that sort of match. Dabo stood up and credit to him for that but unfortunately he failed to score. That was always going to happen to someone and sadly for us it was one of our players. Even the greatest players in the world miss penalties, Messi quite a few and Haarland this season.

The idea that Bidwell, who has scored one (freak) goal in 74 appearances for us and has a similar strike rate throughout his career; McFadzean, who let's face it is hardly the the cleanest striker of a ball; or Wilson should have been forced to take a penalty ahead of Dabo if they felt less confident to do so is absurd.

There's a really good interview with Roberto Baggio about missing on the penalty shoot out of the world up final.

The way he describes the pressure he was under, how it was almost like an out of body experience and the effect on his life afterwards is a real eye opener, and that's from a genuine world class goal scorer.

The 'professional footballers shouldn't miss from 12 yards' line is piss spouted by idiots.

clint van damme · Dec 6, 2023

SlowerThanPlatt said:
I hope Blind faith doesn’t wander into this thread

He's busy getting an Aresnal tattoo

The Philosopher · Dec 6, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
You are right it is predominately about mindset but there is no evidence at all that Bidwell, McFadzean or Wilson would have looked any more confident. Indeed almost certainly the opposite would be true as they clearly didn't feel as confident as him to take a penalty.

These players, at the end of the day are young men in their 20’s and to me the role of the “pack leaders” - MR, AV (gaffers) add KMc (skipper, 36/37 yo man) is to lead.

That is, take responsibility - choose, dictate. “You next Bidwell, you can do it, I believe in you, if he saves it it’s on me, it’s on my shoulders”, not “how do you feel?”.

Dabo looked like he was bricking it as many have noted.

It’s just a view, and it was a surprise at the time. That is all.

Brighton Sky Blue · Dec 7, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
There is a lot of nonsense being uttered about Dabo taking that penalty. Any professional player will have the technical ability to take a penalty but there is so much more to it than that. It is much more about temperament and confidence, especially in that sort of match. Dabo stood up and credit to him for that but unfortunately he failed to score. That was always going to happen to someone and sadly for us it was one of our players. Even the greatest players in the world miss penalties, Messi quite a few and Haarland this season.

The idea that Bidwell, who has scored one (freak) goal in 74 appearances for us and has a similar strike rate throughout his career; McFadzean, who let's face it is hardly the the cleanest striker of a ball; or Wilson should have been forced to take a penalty ahead of Dabo if they felt less confident to do so is absurd.

People do understand that deep down, and if it were a game of less significance a lot more would have a rational view of things. But the cold reality of us probably not having another chance like that for another 20 years combined with seeing Luton enjoy all the proceeds is a bit too much for some. Including me of course

Deleted member 5849 · Dec 7, 2023

The Philosopher said:
These players, at the end of the day are young men in their 20’s and to me the role of the “pack leaders” - MR, AV (gaffers) add KMc (skipper, 36/37 yo man) is to lead.

That is, take responsibility - choose, dictate. “You next Bidwell, you can do it, I believe in you, if he saves it it’s on me, it’s on my shoulders”, not “how do you feel?”.

Dabo looked like he was bricking it as many have noted.

It’s just a view, and it was a surprise at the time. That is all.

Thing is though, Dabo must have been more confident than Bidwell, that's how bad Bidwell must have been. The role of management is to pick the players in the best state to take one and no end of you can do its doesn't automatically mean they can.

And yes I'll agree a surprise, but I won't hang it on him as he had the guts to try... and you could maybe say he did unlike Bidwell. Blame in a penalty shootout is idiotic anyway, but may as well blame all the players who let Dabo go ahead of them!

fernandopartridge · Dec 7, 2023

Legia Sky Blue said:
Technically you are correct, but mindset is ultra important in that situation. I remember a great quote from that day along the lines of 'Dabo walked up to the ball with the air of a man condemned to death'. His body language gave away his metal turmoil! I suspect any of Bidwell, Fadz or even Wilson would have been more outwardly confident, and would have simply put their laces through the ball rather than trying the intricate penalty Dabo tried.

Seeing Luton giving Arsenal a good game last night, with most of their Championship team in place doesn't help closure from that game either!

If any of those 3 were more outwardly confident, why hadn't they stepped up?

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Deleted member 9744 · Dec 7, 2023

The Philosopher said:
These players, at the end of the day are young men in their 20’s and to me the role of the “pack leaders” - MR, AV (gaffers) add KMc (skipper, 36/37 yo man) is to lead.

That is, take responsibility - choose, dictate. “You next Bidwell, you can do it, I believe in you, if he saves it it’s on me, it’s on my shoulders”, not “how do you feel?”.

Dabo looked like he was bricking it as many have noted.

It’s just a view, and it was a surprise at the time. That is all.

I preferred your Hudlin material to be honest.

I do hope you don't manage people.

mmttww · Dec 7, 2023

clint van damme said:
The 'professional footballers shouldn't miss from 12 yards' line is piss spouted by idiots.

Train home that day was two hours of drunk fat people who looked like they couldn't hit a ball 12 yards, telling anyone who'd listen that they would've scored.

The Philosopher · Dec 7, 2023

mmttww said:
Train home that day was two hours of drunk fat people who looked like they couldn't hit a ball 12 yards, tell anyone who'd listen that they would've scored.

Ignore everything I’ve said about leadership and motivation - should have laced some vodka in Dabo’s water bottle.

Sorted.

SBT · Dec 7, 2023

TomRad85 said:
I just sat down in resignation when he walked up. Still remember the faces on everyone around me now. A collective 'wtf' moment.

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There were similar reactions to every penalty taker after Godden and Vik - I was certain that Kelly, Sheaf and Eccles would all miss. Shows how much we know.

Deleted member 9744 · Dec 7, 2023

The Philosopher said:
Ignore everything I’ve said about leadership and motivation - should have laced some vodka in Dabo’s water bottle.

Sorted.

You think good leadership and management is about forcing people to do something they are uncomfortable with and don't feel confident about?

SkyBlueSoul · Dec 7, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
You think good leadership and management is about forcing people to do something they are uncomfortable with and don't feel confident about?

I think he's basing it on the one time Ronaldo did it to Moutinho as Portugal captain and was lauded for it

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2023

Deleted member 9744 said:
You think good leadership and management is about forcing people to do something they are uncomfortable with and don't feel confident about?

It can be. Growth happens outside your comfort zone.

Legia Sky Blue · Dec 7, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
If any of those 3 were more outwardly confident, why hadn't they stepped up?

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Fair point. I remember Fadz making a right pigs ear of a penalty in an EFL trophy game so wasn'too surprised at him. Bidwell was the surprise, and if I remember right I think he got a knock just before the end of extra time, so he might not have felt too good physically. I'm sure there was a moment though as Dabo started the walk to his penalty where he hesitated and looked back, and it looked like Bidwell was going to step forward, but then Dabo went on and Bidwell returned to the rest of the group of players. Once the chosen 5 had taken their kicks it looked a bit disorganised on our part, with no one taking charge and it all seeming a bit off the cuff. I have a feeling that the decision about what order penalty takers we would have in a sudden death scenario was not thought about until we actually reached that situation.

shmmeee · Dec 7, 2023

Legia Sky Blue said:
Fair point. I remember Fadz making a right pigs ear of a penalty in an EFL trophy game so wasn'too surprised at him. Bidwell was the surprise, and if I remember right I think he got a knock just before the end of extra time, so he might not have felt too good physically. I'm sure there was a moment though as Dabo started the walk to his penalty where he hesitated and looked back, and it looked like Bidwell was going to step forward, but then Dabo went on and Bidwell returned to the rest of the group of players. Once the chosen 5 had taken their kicks it looked a bit disorganised on our part, with no one taking charge and it all seeming a bit off the cuff. I have a feeling that the decision about what order penalty takers we would have in a sudden death scenario was not thought about until we actually reached that situation.

I think it was thought through (of course it was) and the thought was “whoever feels confident”.

Legia Sky Blue · Dec 7, 2023

shmmeee said:
I think it was thought through (of course it was) and the thought was “whoever feels confident”.

....... but that's ridiculous, and poor leadership. I bet none of them felt particularly confident, which is why they weren't in the first 5. Rather than 'whoever feels confident' MR should have taken it out of their hands and dictated the order for all penalty scenarios as soon as extra time finished.

mmttww · Dec 7, 2023

Are we seriously still f*cking harping on about what should / shouldn't have happened in that shoot out?

Five took brilliant penalties. Aside from Vik who looked his normal self, all looked like they wanted to puke.

Dabo missed. That's it.

All this crap about 'Leadership' and what MR and co. should have done is a waste of oxygen and bandwidth. jfc

MalcSB · Dec 7, 2023

mmttww said:
Are we seriously still f*cking harping on about what should / shouldn't have happened in that shoot out?

Four took brilliant penalties. Aside from Vik who looked his normal self, all looked like they wanted to puke.

Dabo missed. That's it.

All this crap about 'Leadership' and what MR and co. should have done is a waste of oxygen and bandwidth. jfc

Five took brilliant penalties.

mmttww · Dec 7, 2023

MalcSB said:
Five took brilliant penalties.

D'oh. I knew that. F*ck knows why I typed four.

Legia Sky Blue · Dec 7, 2023

mmttww said:
Are we seriously still f*cking harping on about what should / shouldn't have happened in that shoot out?

Five took brilliant penalties. Aside from Vik who looked his normal self, all looked like they wanted to puke.

Dabo missed. That's it.

All this crap about 'Leadership' and what MR and co. should have done is a waste of oxygen and bandwidth. jfc

Yes, its gone you are right, and of course it is probably wasted energy. Then again you could say that about nearly every post on this message board!

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 7, 2023

mmttww said:
Are we seriously still f*cking harping on about what should / shouldn't have happened in that shoot out?

Five took brilliant penalties. Aside from Vik who looked his normal self, all looked like they wanted to puke.

Dabo missed. That's it.

All this crap about 'Leadership' and what MR and co. should have done is a waste of oxygen and bandwidth. jfc

The points being made are pretty valid and I don't think anyone is being nasty. It doesn't seem like it was that organised from our perspective and it will always go down as the 'what if' moment. The margins in that situation are so fine, and a gust of wind in another direction could mean it was us playing Arsenal at home this week.

It was the biggest moment in our history for many people who support the club and are alive today, if we can't talk about it we might as well just shut down SBT!

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 7, 2023

SBT said:
There were similar reactions to every penalty taker after Godden and Vik - I was certain that Kelly, Sheaf and Eccles would all miss. Shows how much we know.

Personally, after Gyokeres and Godden I felt like we were going to miss every penalty. In fact, I felt pretty nervous about Godden and Gyokeres too.

When people say they ‘knew Dabo was going to miss’, I take it with a pinch of salt because they probably ‘knew’ the last few takers were going to miss too.

I felt like Wilson was going to save 1-2 or two penalties to really cement himself as a cult hero - it’s a shame he didn’t!

NortonSkyBlue · Dec 7, 2023

mmttww said:
Train home that day was two hours of drunk fat people who looked like they couldn't hit a ball 12 yards, telling anyone who'd listen that they would've scored.

That’s plain absurd. I got the coach home

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 7, 2023

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Personally, after Gyokeres and Godden I felt like we were going to miss every penalty. In fact, I felt pretty nervous about Godden and Gyokeres too.

When people say they ‘knew Dabo was going to miss’, I take it with a pinch of salt because they probably ‘knew’ the last few takers were going to miss too.

I felt like Wilson was going to save 1-2 or two penalties to really cement himself as a cult hero - it’s a shame he didn’t!

Nah, there was a bit more nerves on Eccles, Sheaf, and Kelly than the first two, but it was a whole different dynamic when Dabo stepped up.

The amount of 'ffs' and the like floating around me was very high and it was noticeable.

Dabo should have never have taken one. So many knew it was over when he stepped up. I don't know if it was misguided arrogance on his behalf to believe he would score or some shit management, but it was a gift to Luton. I think too many are in denial about it.

PUSB-We_are_going_up · Dec 7, 2023

We’re 19 games into a new season why does it matter

Mucca Mad Boys · Dec 7, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Nah, there was a bit more nerves on Eccles, Sheaf, and Kelly than the first two, but it was a whole different dynamic when Dabo stepped up.

The amount of 'ffs' and the like floating around me was very high and it was noticeable.

Dabo should have never have taken one. So many knew it was over when he stepped up. I don't know if it was misguided arrogance on his behalf to believe he would score or some shit management, but it was a gift to Luton. I think too many are in denial about it.

Misguided arrogance? He's a footballer putting himself forward for his team. Shit management? Where has this confidence in McFadz or Bidwell come from!?

I am sure that penalties would've been practiced in the build up to that game, and I'm sure our lineup would have been fairly set - but we lost 2-3 would be penalty takers in Allen, Palmer and Hamer.

We lost the penalty shootout, people should move on and accept there's not too much influence on it the manager could've had on the outcome. Penalty shootouts are often won by the team shooting first 60-70% (a real statistic) of the time and losing the coin toss puts you at a disadvantage.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Dec 7, 2023

Mucca Mad Boys said:
Misguided arrogance? He's a footballer putting himself forward for his team. Shit management? Where has this confidence in McFadz or Bidwell come from!?

I am sure that penalties would've been practiced in the build up to that game, and I'm sure our lineup would have been fairly set - but we lost 2-3 would be penalty takers in Allen, Palmer and Hamer.

We lost the penalty shootout, people should move on and accept there's not too much influence on it the manager could've had on the outcome. Penalty shootouts are often won by the team shooting first 60-70% (a real statistic) of the time and losing the coin toss puts you at a disadvantage.

You can shade it however you want, the bottom line is simple. We had a player take a penalty that wasn't good enough to take one. He shouldn't have been anywhere near it. He missed, didn't even hit the target, and Luton got promoted to the Premier League. We lost out.

It's easy to say move on and forget about it but for many people it's still quite frustrating to see how close we were, and how things may have been different if someone else had taken the kick.

A few on this board may be in denial, but there's a reason why so many people had their heads in their hands when they saw he was the one walking up.

Chances like that don't come around every day. You watch week in week out for years so to 'just forget about it' when it comes to the biggest moment in the modern history of the club isn't very realistic. Then again, given that there's quite a few people that seem very keen not to talk about it, I wonder if there's some projecting going on.

MusicDating · Dec 7, 2023

mmttww said:
D'oh. I knew that. F*ck knows why I typed four.

Your manager should sack you for that mistake...

itsabuzzard · Dec 7, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
You can shade it however you want, the bottom line is simple. We had a player take a penalty that wasn't good enough to take one. He shouldn't have been anywhere near it. He missed, didn't even hit the target, and Luton got promoted to the Premier League. We lost out.

It's easy to say move on and forget about it but for many people it's still quite frustrating to see how close we were, and how things may have been different if someone else had taken the kick.

A few on this board may be in denial, but there's a reason why so many people had their heads in their hands when they saw he was the one walking up.

Chances like that don't come around every day. You watch week in week out for years so to 'just forget about it' when it comes to the biggest moment in the modern history of the club isn't very realistic. Then again, given that there's quite a few people that seem very keen not to talk about it, I wonder if there's some projecting going on.

Hasn't this been done to death? How much longer do you want to keep discussing it? Let's move on.

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