Grendel please explain !!!! (1 Viewer)

[sky blue john]

70million pounds of debt !!!!!
You side step this massive issue to rant about acl and the council !!!!
please explain your view on this debt and how ccfc will be able sustain all of sisu's fees and interest which runs into millions and rising daily?

 

---

[simple_simon]

Yes Grendel, please explain?

 

[Godiva]

70million pounds of debt !!!!!
You side step this massive issue to rant about acl and the council !!!!
please explain your view on this debt and how ccfc will be able sustain all of sisu's fees and interest which runs into millions and rising daily?

It's been explained just about 100 times in threads that you have participated.
Why would you ask about the debts level again - you know it's purpose is to protect against hostile takeovers. Ask Hoffman how effecitive it is.
Why would you ask about management fee's when you know it's not to pull out money from the club back into the pockets of sisu - you know it's an instrument to distribute cost between the companies in the group.
Why would you ask about interest when you know the sisu loans does not charge interest?

 

[sky blue john]

Godiva do you know the loans for a fact do not carry interest ?
did Timmy not say the accounts were wrong ?
Also sisu group companies have lent money against season tickets out of the goodness of their hearts ?

 

[torchomatic]

If I had a £1 for every time you've mentioned "70 million of debt" then I'd buy the City myself!

I love threads started where forum members are asked to explain themselves. They're my favourite.

70million pounds of debt !!!!!
You side step this massive issue to rant about acl and the council !!!!
please explain your view on this debt and how ccfc will be able sustain all of sisu's fees and interest which runs into millions and rising daily?

 

[SonofErnie]

It's been explained just about 100 times in threads that you have participated.
Why would you ask about the debts level again - you know it's purpose is to protect against hostile takeovers. Ask Hoffman how effecitive it is.
Why would you ask about management fee's when you know it's not to pull out money from the club back into the pockets of sisu - you know it's an instrument to distribute cost between the companies in the group.
Why would you ask about interest when you know the sisu loans does not charge interest?

It's good to know that SISU are a charitable organisation operating for the mutual benefit of all CCFC supporters. I feel reassured by what you're saying and will no longer worry about the future of the club!

 

[jesus-wept]

Always puzzles me how an investment turns into a loan when the business goes tits up.

 

[dongonzalos]

If its only there to stop people buying us who want us to succeed.
Does that mean the debt doesn't come with all the other nasty stuff associated with debt.
Like failing to get your accounts signed off. Struggling to raise funds. Transfer embargo's.
uncertainty players and managers who excel always looking to get away from a club 70 million in debt.
Known in the media as been 70 million in debt (even though it is owed to ourselves)

 

[Grendel]

70million pounds of debt !!!!!
You side step this massive issue to rant about acl and the council !!!!
please explain your view on this debt and how ccfc will be able sustain all of sisu's fees and interest which runs into millions and rising daily?

I could explain but I cannot dumb myself down to a level that you would comprehend. Using crayons and big pictures is a bit difficult on the internet.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Always puzzles me how an investment turns into a loan when the business goes tits up.

The very nature of an investment is an expectation of a return.

 

[Godiva]

Godiva do you know the loans for a fact do not carry interest ?
did Timmy not say the accounts were wrong ?
Also sisu group companies have lent money against season tickets out of the goodness of their hearts ?

Up and till the last known accounts the loans charged no interest. That's the known fact. Why would it change? They are trying to bring the club to break even, that won't happen if they suddenly start charging interests and fee's.

Fisher did NOT say the accounts were wrong - he said they were 'a mess'. That is certainly not the same. The key figures will remain the same for the group even if they decided to redo the old accounts.

Mortgaging season tickets is not a sisu invention. Other clubs do it. It is an instrumet to raise cash flow in the close and preseason when income is low. It's nothing sinister or evil. It's a financial instrument.

 

[sky blue john]

I could explain but I cannot dumb myself down to a level that you would comprehend. Using crayons and big pictures is a bit difficult on the internet.

Go on try me with your best intellectual effort?

 

[dongonzalos]

Always puzzles me how an investment turns into a loan when the business goes tits up.

That my friend is the exact point !!!!!

 

[Grendel]

Go on try me with your best intellectual effort?

There is no point. You know full well that the debt is not debt accrued through football related matters. Also you should know that the clubs desire to own the management company stems from FFP rules where debt in this division is not related to competitiveness.

 

[Godiva]

Always puzzles me how an investment turns into a loan when the business goes tits up.

The money (investment) was injected as loans from day one. It hasn't suddenly changed. They could have injected the money as share capital/equity, but they were clever enough to use the loan option to guard against future hostile takeover attempts.

 

[Godiva]

SISU, IMO, have probably dumped debt on the club as part of their 'end-game'.

I wonder if SISU can write this debt off? So Otium don't have to pay anything... :thinking about:

What exactly would they gain from that? How would it work? How much have they 'dumped'?
Why didn't they put 'that dumped debt' into limited and got rid of it while they had the chance?
Why didn't they abstain from bidding leaving all the supposed dumped debts to others?

And what is their end-game in your opinion?

 

[wingy]

Up and till the last known accounts the loans charged no interest. That's the known fact. Why would it change? They are trying to bring the club to break even, that won't happen if they suddenly start charging interests and fee's.

Fisher did NOT say the accounts were wrong - he said they were 'a mess'. That is certainly not the same. The key figures will remain the same for the group even if they decided to redo the old accounts.

Mortgaging season tickets is not a sisu invention. Other clubs do it. It is an instrumet to raise cash flow in the close and preseason when income is low. It's nothing sinister or evil. It's a financial instrument.

ery likely a

Why is it the case that Arvo claimed to have Injected around £8-£10M. in what was very likeley a break even season,where the player Budget of £4.25M. equated to 65% of Turnover ?Circa £6+M.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I could explain but I cannot dumb myself down to a level that you would comprehend. Using crayons and big pictures is a bit difficult on the internet.

That's funny, as I notice you don't like to dumb yourself up, either. Whenever OSB58's about and starts to take you to the cleaners on finance issues - yet again - you disappear like a Geordie in a maths test

 

[sky blue john]

There is no point. You know full well that the debt is not debt accrued through football related matters. Also you should know that the clubs desire to own the management company stems from FFP rules where debt in this division is not related to competitiveness.

I agree with all that except ffp is used as a smoke screen by sisu. Ffp is convenient for sisu to justify their actions !!!!

 

[Godiva]

I agree with all that except ffp is used as a smoke screen by sisu. Ffp is convenient for sisu to justify their actions !!!!

How is it convenient?
If they wanted to lower the wage bill they would simply do it.
Oh - you're saying they are afraid to alianate the fans? Really?

They don't need a smoke screen to hide behind.

 

[singers_pore]

Mortgaging season tickets is not a sisu invention. Other clubs do it. It is an instrumet to raise cash flow in the close and preseason when income is low. It's nothing sinister or evil. It's a financial instrument.

It certainly is extremely harmful to our income when one considers the huge rate of interest that the club had to pay on this "financial instrument". In fact TF was highly critical of the season ticket mortgage that was arranged by Dulieu, and for once I found myself agreeing with TF on that point.

Your posts would have a lot more credibility if you showed some common sense and a solid understanding of financial matters, rather than showing a knee jerk support for nearly all of SISU's past actions.

 

[sky blue john]

Your funny Godiva. Sisu are not going to say we are going to break acl so that we can take over the ricoh to gain more money for our investors !!!
They say we need all the ricoh revenue for ffp purposes !!!!
Which of these statements do you genuinely believe ?

 

[sky blue john]

If Tf was critical of the ticket mortgage why is it in place still every year ?
TF Sisu say one thing do nothing !!!

 

[Godiva]

It certainly is extremely harmful to our income when one considers the huge rate of interest that the club had to pay on this "financial instrument". In fact TF was highly critical of the season ticket mortgage that was arranged by Dulieu, and for once I found myself agreeing with TF on that point.

Your posts would have a lot more credibility if you showed some common sense and a solid understanding of financial matters, rather than showing a knee jerk support for nearly all of SISU's past actions.

It was first used by Ranson/Hoffman. And yes it has a cost, but Ranson had no other option as sisu had refused him more money. And they still refused to put in more than absolutely necessary until there was a sustainable plan going forward.

 

[Godiva]

Your funny Godiva. Sisu are not going to say we are going to break acl so that we can take over the ricoh to gain more money for our investors !!!
They say we need all the ricoh revenue for ffp purposes !!!!
Which of these statements do you genuinely believe ?

No, they say (and have handed over documentation to the court) that they agreed with ccc to buy the mortgage from Yorkshire Bank at distressed value and write if off. Then they would buy the Higgs shares which with the mortgage gone would have an increased value (as would the ccc shares).
They even agreed how much the club would have to pay during the 'rent-strike'.
Then ACL chairman became director at Yorkshire Bank.
Hoffman turned up on the scene - again.
And the deal collapsed for whatever reasons.

So they actually said they agreed a plan with ccc to break the bank.

 

[singers_pore]

It was first used by Ranson/Hoffman. And yes it has a cost, but Ranson had no other option as sisu had refused him more money. And they still refused to put in more than absolutely necessary until there was a sustainable plan going forward.

Three points:

1. Maybe Ranson should have put in some more of his own money instead of lending it to Cardiff.

2. You forgot to put "extortionate" between "a" and "cost"

3. Ranson/Hoffman left several years ago. Why do you refuse to criticize anything SISU have done since then? Frankly it just makes you look stupid when I am sure you are not.

 

[sky blue john]

Godiva regarding breaking the banks mortgage we have only heard one side of the story. We will have to wait and find out how this one plays out in court before having a balanced view.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Oh so the only reason SISU want to own the ground is because of the FFP rules what a load of tosh for that reason you would give it them for free and because ACL would not do that you see them as the biggest threat to Coventry......................Strange:blue:

Grendel you seem to think that us owning the ground is the be all and end all.

Leicester are 70 million in debt are getting crowds twice our size own their own ground (which they got for nothing) and still they are struggling to compete they are now on a mission to cut costs as they have no more money to invest something sounds very familiar to me ............
Sisu seem to think they can run it better can't even run a football club should stay away and just keep laundering Mafia money.

There is no point. You know full well that the debt is not debt accrued through football related matters. Also you should know that the clubs desire to own the management company stems from FFP rules where debt in this division is not related to competitiveness.

 

[Godiva]

3. Ranson/Hoffman left several years ago. Why do you refuse to criticize anything SISU have done since then? Frankly it just makes you look stupid when I am sure you are not.

Oh I have been very critical of sisu - especially about their total ignorance of involving the fans. They should have embrased the Trust and provided ALL information they could. The cloak and dagger tactics around obtaining part of ACL was misguided and insted they should have laid all cards openly in front of the Trust. Everything should have been explained. Why is Fisher not present on this board on a set time each week?

The way they handle their customers - fans who are lifelong season ticket holders as well as new kids going through their first season (wouldn't blame them if it was also the last) - it's a total disaster!

I support them for being the first owners in decades who actually try to get the club up on even keel. But their first three years with Ranson/Hoffman/Elliot at the wheel was equally a disaster. And don't get me started on Ken Dulieu!

I said many times when we went into administration that new owners would be the prefered outcome. But I also realised that was never going to happen - the debt wall and the uncertainty of which company actually owned the golden share made it impossible.

Anyway - I would be happy if ACL were to be sold to the club at a price that makes sense, but I doubt it will happen.
Then I would hope ACL would offer a deal that would keep the club at the Ricoh for the three years interim period, but that too is very unlikely to happen. That would require some real pressure on ccc from the fans, but we spend our energy on tweeting, texting, writing, calling, mailing just about anybody in the UK demanding they don't deal with sisu.

 

[colin101]

SISU out, nothing else will appease me, they used FFP rules as excuse for not investing the season we got relegated, they came up via Brody with the idea of texting for a substitute, they bought a football club that didn't own their own ground and now moan they pay too much rent / they don't get a share of the burger/pies/beer sales. They tell fans it's their prerogative not to follow them out of the City of Coventry. Well I can see they don't care about me so why should I care or even believe they want a successful football club. All they want is the asset (The Arena) for nothing.
Before anyone wants a pop at me I have been a Coventry City supporter even before Jimmy Hill's era.

 

[singers_pore]

Oh I have been very critical of sisu - especially about their total ignorance of involving the fans. They should have embrased the Trust and provided ALL information they could. The cloak and dagger tactics around obtaining part of ACL was misguided and insted they should have laid all cards openly in front of the Trust. Everything should have been explained. Why is Fisher not present on this board on a set time each week?

The way they handle their customers - fans who are lifelong season ticket holders as well as new kids going through their first season (wouldn't blame them if it was also the last) - it's a total disaster!

I support them for being the first owners in decades who actually try to get the club up on even keel. But their first three years with Ranson/Hoffman/Elliot at the wheel was equally a disaster. And don't get me started on Ken Dulieu!

I said many times when we went into administration that new owners would be the prefered outcome. But I also realised that was never going to happen - the debt wall and the uncertainty of which company actually owned the golden share made it impossible.

Anyway - I would be happy if ACL were to be sold to the club at a price that makes sense, but I doubt it will happen.
Then I would hope ACL would offer a deal that would keep the club at the Ricoh for the three years interim period, but that too is very unlikely to happen. That would require some real pressure on ccc from the fans, but we spend our energy on tweeting, texting, writing, calling, mailing just about anybody in the UK demanding they don't deal with sisu.

Fair enough - I agree with all that.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I agree with most of what Godiva just said, it is the complete & utter mishandling of the PR & SISU's secretive & predatory nature that's alienated the fans and has made SISU's continuance as owners of CCFC unacceptable.

There is no doubt in my mind that they could have achieved their objectives by cooperating with ACL/CCC, somewhat but they seem pathologically unable to do anything but acquire using aggressive & bullying tactics, its had to understand why they're so inflexible in this aspect of their behaviour.. all they've done is get everybodys backs up!

I think now they're only now beginning to realise the full extent of the the mess they've made.

Soon I think we will see a landslide of local firms pulling sponsorship out of the club & they'll not be able to replace those income streams while they're at odds with the businesses & people of Coventry.

But there are plenty more twists & turns to come, it sure isn't clear what the eventual outcome will be..

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

I could explain but I cannot dumb myself down to a level that you would comprehend. Using crayons and big pictures is a bit difficult on the internet.

What's it like living in your Ivory tower?...you condescending prick!

 

[Moff]

What's it like living in your Ivory tower?...you condescending prick!

Pot and kettle comes to mind......

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Hey Moff.....A straight forward question was posted that didn't warrant that response. I respond to...not attack first, ok!:facepalm: