Grass isn't always greener (7 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Vickie]

Having read a number of posts on here there are a couple of points which I don't understand.

- the assumption that any new owners will be better, invest more etc.
Most owners aren't in it for the love of the club. Fans love the club. To owners it is just an investment / business and they will want a return.
Whilst they will hopefully not make the mistakes sisu have there is no guarantee they will do any better, especially as sisu do seem to have learnt from a lot of mistakes.

- the assumption that acl are doing this for the benefit of the club.
Acl make a profit which from what I can see is primarily from the rent paid. What evidence is there that they have CCFCs interests at heart. What evidence is there that they will sell up to new owners?

If acl maintain their current stance then ccfc is destined to struggle. Unless the rent and revenue streams are sorted we are always going to be restricted and many potential investors put off.

My concern in this mad clamber to get into admin to get rid of sisu is whether we will be any better off. Is the hatred of sisu blinding many to the other issues in hand?

 

---

[mark82]

Having read a number of posts on here there are a couple of points which I don't understand.

- the assumption that any new owners will be better, invest more etc.
Most owners aren't in it for the love of the club. Fans love the club. To owners it is just an investment / business and they will want a return.
Whilst they will hopefully not make the mistakes sisu have there is no guarantee they will do any better, especially as sisu do seem to have learnt from a lot of mistakes.

- the assumption that acl are doing this for the benefit of the club.
Acl make a profit which from what I can see is primarily from the rent paid. What evidence is there that they have CCFCs interests at heart. What evidence is there that they will sell up to new owners?

If acl maintain their current stance then ccfc is destined to struggle. Unless the rent and revenue streams are sorted we are always going to be restricted and many potential investors put off.

My concern in this mad clamber to get into admin to get rid of sisu is whether we will be any better off. Is the hatred of sisu blinding many to the other issues in hand?

Nice to see someone with at least an ounce of common sense. As you say people are blinded by their hatred of SISU.

 

[Otis]

I am on the fence on the issue.

Think Stuart Linnell on CWR was right for once. He talked of lots of people on football forums talking about stuff as they are in the know and the fact is, none of them are in the know.

That's where i am. I don't know what is going on behind closed doors at Sisu, or ACL or the Council.

I do have to take issue with your OP to be honest.

I see no mad clamour to get into admin, I see no assumption that people think new owners will invest more. I see no assumption that people think ACL have the best interest of the club at heart.

What I do see on here however, is a lot of generalised sweeping statements about people being anti-Sisu and pro-ACL etc.

I see a few people on here saying they want admin and think things will be better, but then the whole thing is dressed up as if someone is speaking on behalf of 10's of thousands.

There is so much spin on here at the moment it's untrue.

I am neither pro-ACL or anti-Sisu.

I am pro CCFC and I find that we are drowning on here in a sea of sweeping gneralised statements about how people feel.

I hardly post on any Sisu/ACL threads these days as most of it is just posturing and chest puffing.

 

[italiahorse]

Having read a number of posts on here there are a couple of points which I don't understand.

- the assumption that any new owners will be better, invest more etc.
Most owners aren't in it for the love of the club. Fans love the club. To owners it is just an investment / business and they will want a return.
Whilst they will hopefully not make the mistakes sisu have there is no guarantee they will do any better, especially as sisu do seem to have learnt from a lot of mistakes.

- the assumption that acl are doing this for the benefit of the club.
Acl make a profit which from what I can see is primarily from the rent paid. What evidence is there that they have CCFCs interests at heart. What evidence is there that they will sell up to new owners?

If acl maintain their current stance then ccfc is destined to struggle. Unless the rent and revenue streams are sorted we are always going to be restricted and many potential investors put off.

My concern in this mad clamber to get into admin to get rid of sisu is whether we will be any better off. Is the hatred of sisu blinding many to the other issues in hand?

SISU can't win this CCFC battle on all fronts.
If they continue to pay out above the clubs income they will be penalised under the fair play rules.
If the fans want them, or another owner, to throw money at the club then they will also be penalised under the rules.

 

[oldskyblue58]

fair points

there is no guarantee that new owners will be better, but the whole set up has to move forward. The relationships have totally broken down and i think most fans want resolution (thats not the same as wanting administration) I think what SISU have learnt is that they shouldnt make their mistakes so public, their biggest mistake is alienating a huge chunk of the fans together with business partners at the Ricoh - they have not learnt the importance of not doing that

ACL are first and foremost protecting their business. What evidence is there that they dont have CCFC's interest in mind ? their core interest is quite rightly ACL however. Just as the the core interests of SISU are SISU. Is the profit primarily from CCFC though? People make the mistake of equating the rent that CCFC pay to ACLs profit as if it is all down to CCFC it isnt. We can argue about that percentage but the costs of that turnover are also attributable to the profit calculation probably on a very similar percentage. So if CCFC provides 20% of the income it isnt unreasonable to suggest it carries 20% of the costs and therefore contributes 20% of the profit

Only a personal opinion but I think ACL has set things up to be able to offer new owners income streams from the whole site..... they already shown willingness even with SISU to reduce the rent. There are deals that can be worked to make it all attractive.

I think the majority of the blind emotion is coming from the fans which is very understandable and no critisim intended. ACL have not done this as a knee jerk reaction it has taken 12 months. No one actually wants administration but many understand that it might take that to get resolution

just my take on it

 

[stupot07]

I am on the fence on the issue.

Think Stuart Linnell on CWR was right for once. He talked of lots of people on football forums talking about stuff as they are in the know and the fact is, none of them are in the know.

That's where i am. I don't know what is going on behind closed doors at Sisu, or ACL or the Council.

I do have to take issue with your OP to be honest.

I see no mad clamour to get into admin, I see no assumption that people think new owners will invest more. I see no assumption that people think ACL have the best interest of the club at heart.

What I do see on here however, is a lot of generalised sweeping statements about people being anti-Sisu and pro-ACL etc.

I see a few people on here saying they want admin and think things will be better, but then the whole thing is dressed up as if someone is speaking on behalf of 10's of thousands.

There is so much spin on here at the moment it's untrue.

I am neither pro-ACL or anti-Sisu.

I am pro CCFC and I find that we are drowning on here in a sea of sweeping gneralised statements about how people feel.

I hardly post on any Sisu/ACL threads these days as most of it is just posturing and chest puffing.

Well said Otis.

 

[coundonskyblue]

I dont think we should ever have a change of ownership ever again on the off chance that the new ones might be worse than sisu.

 

[Black6Osprey]

To the original question... I don't know though, have you seen the state of our pitch ( or should that be their pitch)?

 

[Grendel]

fair points

there is no guarantee that new owners will be better, but the whole set up has to move forward. The relationships have totally broken down and i think most fans want resolution (thats not the same as wanting administration) I think what SISU have learnt is that they shouldnt make their mistakes so public, their biggest mistake is alienating a huge chunk of the fans together with business partners at the Ricoh - they have not learnt the importance of not doing that

ACL are first and foremost protecting their business. What evidence is there that they dont have CCFC's interest in mind ? their core interest is quite rightly ACL however. Just as the the core interests of SISU are SISU. Is the profit primarily from CCFC though? People make the mistake of equating the rent that CCFC pay to ACLs profit as if it is all down to CCFC it isnt. We can argue about that percentage but the costs of that turnover are also attributable to the profit calculation probably on a very similar percentage. So if CCFC provides 20% of the income it isnt unreasonable to suggest it carries 20% of the costs and therefore contributes 20% of the profit

Only a personal opinion but I think ACL has set things up to be able to offer new owners income streams from the whole site..... they already shown willingness even with SISU to reduce the rent. There are deals that can be worked to make it all attractive.

I think the majority of the blind emotion is coming from the fans which is very understandable and no critisim intended. ACL have not done this as a knee jerk reaction it has taken 12 months. No one actually wants administration but many understand that it might take that to get resolution

just my take on it

What is your views on the likelihood of getting points reductions for coming out of admin as well as going in?

I believe there is a very distinct possibility that the case will not be settled until the end of the season and ultimately ACL will send the club into administration.

I find it impossible to believe that the owners will voluntarily give up the League Share and accept new owners so they will then be coming out with no voluntary CVA.

This means a real threat of minus 10 points next season for going in and -15 for going out both in the same season.

 

[Black6Osprey]

well as the SBT are working with the Pompey and Wycombe ideals we can all be in the same league and compare notes.

 

[Diehard Si]

You are right it might not be much better, but for gods sake it can't get any worse.

Whether you blame Sisu or sympathise with them, they are stuck. Totally and utterly stuck. Their plan didn't work, it will now never work. You can argue about the morals all day, and who's right or wrong but that much is fact.

So where do we go from here?

I don't think it's a case of what we all want, it's the lesser of 2 evils. Sisu publicly spoke of liquidation. That spooked a lot of people, including acl.

I'd love a billionaire to come in and save the day, but that's cloud cuckoo land. I'd just be happy with some one that knows how to run a club and can put some investment in, but maintain a healthy balance sheet.

 

[oldskyblue58]

What is your views on the likelihood of getting points reductions for coming out of admin as well as going in?

I believe there is a very distinct possibility that the case will not be settled until the end of the season and ultimately ACL will send the club into administration.

I find it impossible to believe that the owners will voluntarily give up the League Share and accept new owners so they will then be coming out with no voluntary CVA.

This means a real threat of minus 10 points next season for going in and -15 for going out both in the same season.

I think you are right Grendel that is certainly a possibility............ SISU will not go without a fight so I can not see this being settled quickly, possibly even not until next season

 

[Diehard Si]

I think you are right Grendel that is certainly a possibility............ SISU will not go without a fight so I can not see this being settled quickly, possibly even not until next season

It's bound to drag on. It always does. It's always a nail biting lengthy saga.

 

[dongonzalos]

Having read a number of posts on here there are a couple of points which I don't understand.

- the assumption that any new owners will be better, invest more etc.

'Not sure if they will be better, yet there is a good chance they can't be any worse. '


Most owners aren't in it for the love of the club. Fans love the club. To owners it is just an investment / business and they will want a return.

'These owners don't seem to understand that a successful team leads to a return of that investment as does owning your own stadium. We are as far away from owning your own stadium as we possibly could be '


Whilst they will hopefully not make the mistakes sisu have there is no guarantee they will do any better, especially as sisu do seem to have learnt from a lot of mistakes.

- the assumption that acl are doing this for the benefit of the club.
Acl make a profit which from what I can see is primarily from the rent paid. What evidence is there that they have CCFCs interests at heart. What evidence is there that they will sell up to new owners?

'They have stated they want out but it has to be right for the people of Coventry. They are owned by a Charity that puts Coventry first and a Council that knows the importance if a successful football team to a city'

If acl maintain their current stance then ccfc is destined to struggle. Unless the rent and revenue streams are sorted we are always going to be restricted and many potential investors put off.

'We won't get a new buyer without a new deal, AZcZl know this'

My concern in this mad clamber to get into admin to get rid of sisu is whether we will be any better off. Is the hatred of sisu blinding many to the other issues in hand?

' You have said yourself they do not learn from their mistakes, the future with SISU according to SISU
is liquidation. '

 

[Nick]

Think Stuart Linnell on CWR was right for once. He talked of lots of people on football forums talking about stuff as they are in the know and the fact is, none of them are in the know.

The thing is, no disrespect to the SBT or the media but how qualified are they to advise? I don't know what Jan, Moz etc do for a living so they may well be experts but with people in the media, and the media themselves how experienced are they?

 

[dongonzalos]

I think you are right Grendel that is certainly a possibility............ SISU will not go without a fight so I can not see this being settled quickly, possibly even not until next season

It is massively in their interests to produce lots of technicality issues to drag it out.

Then if we get promoted they will try and sign the original deal on the table to avoid the points deduction.

Then they will do everything in their power to get hold of those investors.

They will IMO try to keep the current team as they are and lose any high earners they can.

They will try and cover the FFP by the extra TV revenue.

Then as a fan we will watch our side get hammered and we will ask for Pressley's head.

All IMO

 

[chiefdave]

for gods sake it can't get any worse.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, we always seem to manage to find a way.

 

[SkyBlueBlood]

If any new owners had come in whilst the club were trading out of administration rather waiting for the insolvency act which could easily wreck this and next season I would have more confidence.

Case Study;
I joined a football club who did not own their ground and had sold off all catering including the bar and even the club shop and had not submitted accounts for 3 years. Sounds like Cov but its not.
Worse than that there were a number of senior persons up in court for tax evasion from previous years of paying add on's to players in cash.

I was brought in to clean up their image and put robust financial controls in place on the insistence of the FA and Football League. A job that I accepted with the open knowledge that unless a complex property deal they had come up with went through the club would be insolvent. Before Xmas a winding up order was issued by the stadium landlords and so bank accounts were frozen and we only had gate receipts to run the club with. Couldn't pay the players or staff so had to sell off players and return loans ending the season with a squad of 10 plus youth team.

The vulchers began to circle and a number of potential investors came forward including one who was selected by the clubs owners (who had by now stopped all funding) and they went though due diligence and made promises to pay the next months salaries and sign the contract for the club to move it forward. They did not come good on any of these promises and allegedly there was further action as their proof of funds was not all it seemed.

It was only after the season which ended in relegation on the last day had finished that myself and some of the senior staff held a public meeting in one of the stands with the fans that following on from that meeting a genuine local businessman stepped in and saved the club and still runs it to this day, albeit on a much smaller scale in non-league and part time.

Point being watch for circling sharks if we do go into admin...........

 

[Warwickhunt]

There will be more clubs going into Administration in the Closed season because of FFP, think of the teams that have only 3/4 k attendances and owning their own ground only removes the Rent Element that we have got and the food & Beverage on 3/4k attendances is not ground breaking is it. Well what will happen is the lower league's will have to get rid of the journey men and go for youth players.

Question does anybody know how many league 1 & 2 teams have put their accounts into the league or how many have a transfer umbungo against them?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Question does anybody know how many league 1 & 2 teams have put their accounts into the league or how many have a transfer umbungo against them?

Hell's teeth. Is this something new?

 

[oldskyblue58]

There will be more clubs going into Administration in the Closed season because of FFP, think of the teams that have only 3/4 k attendances and owning their own ground only removes the Rent Element that we have got and the food & Beverage on 3/4k attendances is not ground breaking is it. Well what will happen is the lower league's will have to get rid of the journey men and go for youth players.

Question does anybody know how many league 1 & 2 teams have put their accounts into the league or how many have a transfer umbungo against them?

Assuming they are all limited companies then you can find out by doing a search at Companies House for each team....... the summary page tells you what date accounts filed to and if overdue. If overdue at Co. House then overdue at League its the same deadline. Some might be under embargo for different reasons though and FL wont provide a list

 

[mark82]

To the original question... I don't know though, have you seen the state of our pitch ( or should that be their pitch)?

I was on Wikipedia earlier and it states "Surface: Grass". I would seriously question that.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Watford http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21829894
Swindon, soon to exit embargo though http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/..._confident__embargo_will_be_lifted_on_Monday/
Bury http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21552861

Couldn't find any more.

Errata, how could I forget!
Portsmouth http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...7/Portsmouth-close-coming-administration.html