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Grab a beer or a cup of tea, it’s CCFC!! (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter I was eleven in 87
  • Start date Feb 9, 2019
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chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #71
Lord_Nampil said:
the exchange rate was a problem too if i remember rings bells now, just remember the council wont budge comment fletcher said and was the main down fall to the deal!
Click to expand...
Fletcher loved firing out statements about how bids were 'derisory' or similar terms.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #72
Nick said:
My point is that it shouldn't really be from any side.

Why is he putting out propaganda like that?
What's the aim?
Click to expand...

Its a well written, argued and researched piece, you may vehemently disagree with the conclusions and the tone of the article but I've yet to find any statement of fact that is in error, have you? Actually I find Les Reid articles have a similar style only they generally take the side of SISU but are pretty much factually accurate.

The aims and objectives of JHW are crystal clear, it is on their web site, its the first thing you see, though annoyingly it is in a scrolling segment.

Nick said:
All that is going to do is make other parties look blameless and make sure nobody looks their way.
Click to expand...
There is a comprehensive critique about the negative effects the sale of ACL shares by CCC to Wasps would have on CCFC in the middle of the article.
 
Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
Reactions: bawtryneal

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #73
Captain Dart said:
There is a comprehensive critique about the negative effects the sale of ACL by CCC/AEHC to Wasps would have on CCFC in the middle of the article.
Click to expand...

Which is completely different to the point I made? If that's all you can find you must be scraping the barrell.

The aims of JHW, one person who doesn't know why he boycotts?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #74
vow said:
If my memory serves me well, I believe The Manhattan Group were interested in late 2007 all the way untill either, the £ v $ exchange rate had plummetted (making the purchase more expensive for the Yanks) and/or in the Oct 2008 when that crash happened?
I don't remember it doing anything to do with CCC disliking them?
Click to expand...

Hopkins who was fronting the bid said the consortium met the council and took the next plane home
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #75
City council leader Ken Taylor revealed that two other "derisory" bids had been received from two other firms.

One, called Sisu, had offered #15million.

The other was from a firm called Shapiro, which offered #26million but wanted the club to pay off its debts and the city council to give it a longer lease on the Ricoh Arena and some spare land to the north of the site.
Click to expand...
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #76
I don't see how failed bids by parties other than SISU have any bearing on the situation today. That after all is all that matters.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #77
Captain Dart said:
I don't see how failed bids by parties other than SISU have any bearing on the situation today. That after all is all that matters.
Click to expand...

Of course you wouldn't.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #78
Note the bid from SISU was derisory. It's simply not true the council encouraged SISU at the expense of others - they didn't encourage SISU either!

The Co-op bank did however, as SISU allowed them to get more of their cash back. Ultimately it was they who pushed SISU into a position of preference. As for the cub, you'd have to ask Joe Elliott why he thought they were our great white hope.
 
Reactions: Otis

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #79
Nick said:
Of course you wouldn't.
Click to expand...
Please explain what bearing they have on today's situation then.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #80
Captain Dart said:
Please explain what bearing they have on today's situation then.
Click to expand...

Because it's another situation where the council didn't really give a shit. They have also been a factor in our trouble even pre SISU...
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #81
Nick said:
Because it's another situation where the council didn't really give a shit. They have also been a factor in our trouble even pre SISU...
Click to expand...
Didn't give a shit, that's your idea of analysing the situation is it. Oh dear.

If you could list some pros and cons of each deal indicating in which way the council did not live up to professional standards and clearly disadvantaged CCFC by their choice I would be impressed as well as incredibly surprised that you actually have some capacity of critical thought and an ability to research something.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #82
Captain Dart said:
Didn't give a shit, that's your idea of analysing the situation is it. Oh dear.
Click to expand...

It's simplifying it because nobody really gives a shit.

Plus im focusing on watching the game in the other window
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #83
Nick said:
It's simplifying it because nobody really gives a shit.

Plus im focusing on watching the game in the other window
Click to expand...

Putting aside your obvious issue with Mr Johnson and any "previous" you may or may not have had with him, what is it you specifically disagree with in his article.
 
Reactions: lauraine and Steve.B50

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #84
Good 3 points by the way today.
Well deserved and hopefully the start of a decent run and beating Walsall next Saturday.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #85
bawtryneal said:
Putting aside your obvious issue with Mr Johnson and any "previous" you may or may not have had with him, what is it you specifically disagree with in his article.
Click to expand...

The reasoning behind it, the way it seems to be trying to re-write history by leaving things out

We know fisher is a prick, it doesn't mean others can't be well.
 
Last edited: Feb 9, 2019

vow

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #86
Aye, so the Manhattan Group was way before the sale of CCFC actually happened.
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #87
Nick said:
The reasoning behind it, the way it seems to be trying to re-write history by leaving things out

We know fisher is a prick, it doesn't mean others can't be well.
Click to expand...

What has he left out specifically ?
Not trying to be clever, just an honest question because I thought his piece was fairly well written
 
Reactions: Steve.B50

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #88
Nick said:
The reasoning behind it, the way it seems to be trying to re-write history by leaving things out

We know fisher is a prick, it doesn't mean others can't be well.
Click to expand...
What has he left out?
 
Reactions: Steve.B50

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #89
bawtryneal said:
What has he left out specifically ?
Not trying to be clever, just an honest question because I thought his piece was fairly well written
Click to expand...
Any time any other party has bullshitted. It's very selective.

One example is the butts stuff.
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #90
Nick said:
Any time any other party has bullshitted. It's very selective.

One example is the butts stuff.
Click to expand...

He explains the Butts situation very clearly in my opinion
As I say I think it is a well written article and is very close to both my opinion and recollection of the facts over the last 5 or so years.
 
Reactions: Irish Sky Blue, Steve.B50 and Captain Dart

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #91
We all agree Fisher is a cock but that is not the point
Fisher is just a puppet for SISU. A well rewarded puppet at that.
Until Seppala backs down we are wholly reliant on Wasps owners and management showing some goodwill to CCFC. Without that there will be no Ricoh extension.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #92
bawtryneal said:
He explains the Butts situation very clearly in my opinion
As I say I think it is a well written article and is very close to both my opinion and recollection of the facts over the last 5 or so years.
Click to expand...
Apart from the bits missed out? That's one example because I looked it up again to see who said what for the other thread a couple of days ago so it's fresh

That's why I have used the words selective rather than factually incorrect or made up.

His boycott reason is what's factually incorrect.
 
Last edited: Feb 9, 2019

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #93
Nick said:
Apart from the bits missed out? That's one example because I looked it up again to see who said what for the other thread a couple of days ago so it's fresh

That's why I have used the words selective rather than factually incorrect or made up.

His boycott reason is what's factually incorrect.
Click to expand...
Any reason one person has for boycotting games is not material to the argument.
Tell me something that is which invalidates or weakens the case made?
 

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #94
Nick said:
Apart from the bits missed out? That's one example because I looked it up again to see who said what for the other thread a couple of days ago so it's fresh

That's why I have used the words selective rather than factually incorrect or made up.

His boycott reason is what's factually incorrect.
Click to expand...

The article has nothing to do with any boycott.
Anyhow. I think he has summed it up pretty well
Let's all be nice to Eastwood and co or we are going to have a big big problem in 4 or 5 weeks time.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #95
Captain Dart said:
Any reason one person has for boycotting games is not material to the argument.
Tell me something that is which invalidates or weakens the case made?
Click to expand...
I already have about the butts stuff, there are things missed out. I had to explain the same things in the other thread.

It's not material if it's made up though is it? It's pointing out there's an agenda behind it which is why its selective.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #96
Nick said:
I already have about the butts stuff, there are things missed out. I had to explain the same things in the other thread.

It's not material if it's made up though is it? It's pointing out there's an agenda behind it which is why its selective.
Click to expand...

I don't deny that there is an agenda, in fact I told you where you could find it, it's here Home

It isn't an answer to say it's hard to explain or the explanation is elsewhere, it is evading the question.

Please try to explain or give me references to specific posts that do explain on the other thread are referring to.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #97
Captain Dart said:
I don't deny that there is an agenda, in fact I told you where you could find it, it's here Home

It isn't an answer to say it's hard to explain or the explanation is elsewhere, it is evading the question.

Please try to explain or give me references to specific posts that do explain on the other thread are referring to.
Click to expand...
Is this where people play the acting dumb game?
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #98
Nick said:
Is this where people play the acting dumb game?
Click to expand...
So no answer because you have none.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #99
Captain Dart said:
So no answer because you have none.
Click to expand...
I've already given one example of what was being selective as it was discussed a couple of days ago.

Are you saying it isn't being selective with facts?
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #100
Nick said:
I've already given one example of what was being selective as it was discussed a couple of days ago.

Are you saying it isn't being selective with facts?
Click to expand...
Where is this mysterious thread you say explains the omissions you claim are made?

No I don' t think a 12,000 word article is terribly selective, in fact it is very comprehensive.
 
Reactions: bawtryneal

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #101
Captain Dart said:
Where is this mysterious thread you quoted?

No I don' t think a 12,000 word article is terribly selective, in fact it is very comprehensive.
Click to expand...
It was the one that discussed the butts literally days ago. The only mysterious thing about it was Tony also trying to be selective and being corrected then vanishing. Try reading threads properly.

You do realise it could be 400 thousand words and still be selective?

All stuff like this does is give other parties a free pass to do whatever. Same as has gone on for years.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #102
Nick said:
It was the one that discussed the butts literally days ago. The only mysterious thing about it was Tony also trying to be selective and being corrected. Try reading threads properly.

You do realise it could be 400 thousand words and still be selective?
Click to expand...

Where and which posts show you have a point? You are not explaning yourself, just being evasive.

I don't think the Butts matters anymore, Jon Sharp is not going to agree anything while SISU own CCFC and are perceived as unacceptable.
 
Reactions: bawtryneal

Nick

Administrator
  • Feb 9, 2019
  • #103
Captain Dart said:
Where and which posts show you have a point? You are not explaning yourself, just being evasive.

I don't think the Butts matters anymore, Jon Sharp is not going to agree anything while SISU own CCFC and are perceived as unacceptable.
Click to expand...

I have said he missed things about regarding the butts situation as one example. I literally went through all the details about it a couple of days ago when Tony strangely missed details too.

Where did I say it was still going to happen?

Why are you trying to play dumb again? Is this the new thing?

If fisher bullshits it's all there in details, if the council do its just "public relations" rather then multiple people being bullshitters.

The people bullshitting should all rightly be called out rather than pretending only one side is at it.
 
Last edited: Feb 9, 2019

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 10, 2019
  • #104
Nick said:
I have said he missed things about regarding the butts situation as one example. I literally went through all the details about it a couple of days ago when Tony strangely missed details too.

Where did I say it was still going to happen?

Why are you trying to play dumb again? Is this the new thing?

If fisher bullshits it's all there in details, if the council do its just "public relations" rather then multiple people being bullshitters.

The people bullshitting should all rightly be called out rather than pretending only one side is at it.
Click to expand...

Who is bullshitting apart from Fisher.
SISU had an agenda. It has failed. They cannot blame anybody else
As I said yesterday evening. Without the goodwill of Wasps we have no home.
I think it is perfectly reasonable for their stance. They warned SISU of the outcome of their ongoing actions last year.
I cannot see your argument.
Sometimes you argue without logic or reason. One of the major reasons I do not post on here very often.
 
Reactions: Irish Sky Blue, chickentikkamasala, cov soul and 3 others
S

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
  • Feb 10, 2019
  • #105
The council have bullshitted, talking about rebuilding trust while selling to wasps. Saying the future of CCFC and crfc would be secure then saying it was only for four years, that’s bullshit too. The council have had an agenda regarding the club long before Sisu arrived. I don’t find the wasps stance completely reasonable. Do we not remember the bleating about them having no home and it justifying moving miles. Yet here they are not talking to the club about keeping them at the ricoh. The legal action is not against them, they are an interested party. It’s just a convenient excuse that people swallow.
 
Reactions: AVWskyblue and chiefdave
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