Golden share (1 Viewer)

theferret said:

The 'split' wasn't recent. CCFC Holdings has existed since 1907 and would have held the original share. CCFC Ltd was formed in 1995, but CCFC Holdings has continued to be the trading company and it is difficult to understand why the GS is with CCFC Ltd as ACL believe (and the FL have apparently confirmed). It was suggested earlier the confusion may be about the original name of CCFC Holdings which was CCFC Ltd (The). Who knows, but others claim in 2001 the share was reissued to CCFC Ltd. No idea. As Coundon says though, it is the company reg number that is the important factor, and this must surely be documented.

Either way, I don't think there is anything sinister here.

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Clear as mud then. It is easy for an outsider like me to hypothesise that there may have been wrongdoing, but surely the company that holds the FL share and player registrations should always be one and the same, regardless of whether this is named after the popular name for the football club or after a parent/holding company.

I apologise for my ignorance here, but I still can't understand why the FA, FL, the CCFC and CCFC Holdings aren't all signing off the same hymn sheet with regards to who owns what. No matter how complex the arrangements are, surely the actual details must be known???

skyblue2k said:

But the golden share would have existed prior to the formation of the premier league, but what about the FA registration? Surely that is in the original companies name?

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The plot thickens,
Maybe on relegation the FL issued it back to ccfc ltd without knowing the name had changed to ccfch , maybe just a simple clerical error.
It is possible i suppose because the name change would have happened under the PL.

hutch1972 said:

The plot thickens,
Maybe on relegation the FL issued it back to ccfc ltd without knowing the name had changed to ccfch , maybe just a simple clerical error.
It is possible i suppose because the name change would have happened under the PL.

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Wouldn't this have been picked up at some point over the last 11 years though each time we registered a new player?

coundonskyblue said:

I said on another post that I think this also shows the league in a bad light.

You would think the league would have all this info on a database where it would take them 5 minutes to check it.

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They're probably using Windows Vista. Poor bastards.

coundonskyblue said:

Wouldn't this have been picked up at some point over the last 11 years though each time we registered a new player?

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You would have thought so , maybe they just wasn't looking

coundonskyblue said:

Wouldn't this have been picked up at some point over the last 11 years though each time we registered a new player?

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This is Coventry City were talking about. Assume nothing.

hutch1972 said:

The plot thickens,
Maybe on relegation the FL issued it back to ccfc ltd without knowing the name had changed to ccfch , maybe just a simple clerical error.
It is possible i suppose because the name change would have happened under the PL.

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That's right the name change from CCFC Ltd (The) to CCFC Holdings happened in the mid 90s, around the time of the incorporation of CCFC Ltd. Sounds far-fetched but it could simply be something as simple as a clerical error.

theferret said:

That's right the name change from CCFC Ltd (The) to CCFC Holdings happened in the mid 90s, around the time of the incorporation of CCFC Ltd. Sounds far-fetched but it could simply be something as simple as a clerical error.

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Unfortunately I can see the league not wanting to look foolish so will just place all blame for the error onto the club.

The accounts show that CCFC Ltd has been more than a company holding the rental agreememt. Its turnover is from more than paying the rent, indicating that it has been trading players etc from this company.

Certainly, in 2009, the accounts of Sky Blue Sports and Leisure (the parent company of the group) show CCFC Ltd as being engaged in "Playing activities of a professional football club" and CCFC (Holdings) as "Holding company providing management and other services to subsidiary undertakings"
I don't have later accounts to hand, but if the golden share was anywhere in 2009 it was with CCFC Ltd. Having read them, I don't remember the descriptions being any different.
since both the FA and the FL say that their records show the shares as being held by that company, I would expect them to work on that basis.
The "operating activities" have very clearly been transferred to (Holdings) very recently. I suspect the latest (unfolded) accounts will show the same descriptions as in 2009, and there was some jiggery-pokery done so they could claim CCFC Ltd is the licence holder and nothing more.

If I'm right, we'll get the book thrown at us.

The Football League are a bit up themselves aren't they? 'Golden share', like playing in League One is a trip to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory.

ajsccfc said:

The Football League are a bit up themselves aren't they? 'Golden share', like playing in League One is a trip to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory.

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To be fair, it's not them who call it that. It's simply an individual share in the FL or FA. It's other people who have talked of it as a "golden" share, since it gives a club the right to compete in the League.

ajsccfc said:

The Football League are a bit up themselves aren't they? 'Golden share', like playing in League One is a trip to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory.

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Joy Seppalla would be Veruca Salt.

[video]http://youtu.be/TRTkCHE1sS4[/video]

Waldorf said:

Certainly, in 2009, the accounts of Sky Blue Sports and Leisure (the parent company of the group) show CCFC Ltd as being engaged in "Playing activities of a professional football club" and CCFC (Holdings) as "Holding company providing management and other services to subsidiary undertakings"
I don't have later accounts to hand, but if the golden share was anywhere in 2009 it was with CCFC Ltd. Having read them, I don't remember the descriptions being any different.
since both the FA and the FL say that their records show the shares as being held by that company, I would expect them to work on that basis.
The "operating activities" have very clearly been transferred to (Holdings) very recently. I suspect the latest (unfolded) accounts will show the same descriptions as in 2009, and there was some jiggery-pokery done so they could claim CCFC Ltd is the licence holder and nothing more.

If I'm right, we'll get the book thrown at us.

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my fears too

coundonskyblue said:

Joy Seppalla would be Veruca Salt.

[video]http://youtu.be/TRTkCHE1sS4[/video]

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Unfortunately John 'Augustus Gloop' Clarke has already resigned. No chocolate factory for him.

Bluegloucester said:

The accounts show that CCFC Ltd has been more than a company holding the rental agreememt. Its turnover is from more than paying the rent, indicating that it has been trading players etc from this company.

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But the 1.3 million pound questions are , When and how did they move them ?

Brighton Sky Blue said:

Unfortunately John 'Augustus Gloop' Clarke has already resigned. No chocolate factory for him.

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We've even got Grandpa Joe (Eilliott) involved.

I reckon they did the t'fr the day clarke resigned

Waldorf said:

To be fair, it's not them who call it that. It's simply an individual share in the FL or FA. It's other people who have talked of it as a "golden" share, since it gives a club the right to compete in the League.

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I'm kind of relieved it's not an official term, it'd sound so out of place.

hutch1972 said:

But the 1.3 million pound questions are , When and how did they move them ?

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when is immaterial, why the FL have not been informed? Is the £60m question.

Somebody 'like' Coundon's post for me.

Bluegloucester said:

when is immaterial, why the FL have not been informed? Is the £60m question.

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As a kid i was pretty good at cluedo, but i'm fecked if i can solve this one !!

Key dates seem to be

CCFC h was formed as The Coventry City Football Club Limited 24/07/07. Changed its name to Coventry city Football CLub (holdings) Limited 16/02/96

The Premier League started in 1992

Coventry City Football Club Limited formed 16/05/95 - so not actually the same name

CCFC relegated from Premiership 2001. When a club is relegated it doesnt retain its share it exchanges it with the team heading in the other direction. So CCFC got the FL Championship share in 2001. Similarly when CCFC went down to League 1 it would have swapped its championship share for one from League1


the 2011 CCFC ltd & CCFC H accounts provide other facts signed off by T Fisher

the directors report ccfcH says "the Football Club which is a 100% subsidiary of the company (CCFCH) ....... "

the principal activity of CCFCH is listed as Holding Company and undertakes some commercial activities of managing Coventry City Footbal Club thats not the same as CCFC ltd it would seem

The principal activity of CCFC Ltd is the playing activities of a professional football club

CCFC Ltd lists players and management 2011 as 108 and 2010 as 94

the profit and loss account of CCFC Ltd lists profit on sale of player registrations 2011 as £72,209 and 2010 £4,700,574

The rent paid to the Ricoh is listed as paid by CCFC H

so to sum up what is the reality, irrespective of what is on the share................. commercially the football club is CCFC Limited ............. well certainly from 16/05/95 until 19/06/12 (when 2011 accs signed off by T Fisher) it was. Any change in the 9 months since has but one purpose ..... to avoid the rent debt. Whilst the golden share is important to the FL in court it is the commercial legal reality that is. The directors have always held out CCFC Limited to be the football club. In fact more than that it would seem that they have held out the two companies as one entity (for well over a decade)