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Get behind the team (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Gosb
  • Start date Jul 25, 2017
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skybluebeduff

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #106
Grendel said:
It's an operating loss.
Click to expand...
Which still has nothing to do with increased attendances increases our budget myth does it?...
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #107
skybluebeduff said:
Which still has nothing to do with increased attendances increases our budget myth does it?...
Click to expand...

Surely you would keep an eye on the % of the wage bill to the revenue? Don't forget the Mowbray season there was a massive discount on season tickets without much of an increase

Increased attendances for 7 or 8 games when we are flying high isn't going to see a massive jump in the wage bill, you would think the fact that Mowbray brought in plenty of contracted players between December and March shows more money going out on wages too. Whether they were shit or not is irrelevant.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueZack

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #108
SkyBlueZack said:
The has beens would have cost money. I can't imagine Ramage, Henderson and Hunt being on low wages.
Click to expand...

Or Joe Cole for that matter.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueZack

skybluebeduff

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #109
SkyBlueZack said:
The has beens would have cost money. I can't imagine Ramage, Henderson and Hunt being on low wages.
Click to expand...
So you just guess? and yes there wage would of been low, look at the previous clubs they came from.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #110
skybluebeduff said:
So you just guess? and yes there wage would of been low, look at the previous clubs they came from.
Click to expand...

Aren't you just guessing too?

8 players (I think without checking) were added to the payroll in the Winter transfer window.
 
S

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #111
If they were each on 1k a week, that's 3k in total a week. 12k a month for 6 months. 72k in total. Not factoring in NI, and other associated costs with employing people.

I said 1k a week as that is below the L1 average, I don't know the actual amount but can't imagine it being less. After all they were players with experience of football at a higher level.
 

skybluebeduff

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #112
Nick said:
Aren't you just guessing too?

8 players (I think without checking) were added to the payroll in the Winter transfer window.
Click to expand...
I would think Maddisons money helped rather than increased attendances. After all people harp on about how Maddisons money went into the club...

And yes, people saying increased attendances increases the budget are guessing, because they cannot provide proof of it.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #113
SkyBlueZack said:
The has beens would have cost money. I can't imagine Ramage, Henderson and Hunt being on low wages.
Click to expand...


didn't Mowbray say Hunt was literally playing for nothing? Not sure about the other two.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #114
SkyBlueZack said:
If they were each on 1k a week, that's 3k in total a week. 12k a month for 6 months. 72k in total. Not factoring in NI, and other associated costs with employing people.
Click to expand...

As well as Rose, Lorentson, Jones, Gadzhev. (Sayoud and Spence wouldn't have been on much).

People seem to miss that players will be paid no matter how shit they are, the same as if we sign 25 strikers and none of them can score and people just keep shouting bring in more strikers as if the others don't exist suddenly.
 
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SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #115
clint van damme said:
didn't Mowbray say Hunt was literally playing for nothing? Not sure about the other two.
Click to expand...

Nothing for a footballer? Or nothing for your average man/woman in the street?
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #116
skybluebeduff said:
I would think Maddisons money helped rather than increased attendances. After all people harp on about how Maddisons money went into the club...
Click to expand...

What do you mean "harp on"?

You are just guessing yourself, but you are telling others they are wrong because they are?

Again, it's a case of looking at wages compared to income surely.
 

skybluebeduff

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #117
Nick said:
As well as Rose, Lorentson, Jones, Gadzhev. (Sayoud and Spence wouldn't have been on much).

People seem to miss that players will be paid no matter how shit they are, the same as if we sign 25 strikers and none of them can score and people just keep shouting bring in more strikers as if the others don't exist suddenly.
Click to expand...
Hence why we sold a player and brought in free transfers...
 

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #118
skybluebeduff said:
Which still has nothing to do with increased attendances increases our budget myth does it?...
Click to expand...

Higher than expected attendances allowed Mowbray to spend in 2015/16 winter window. What he brought in was crap has beens who were overpriced (wage wise). Just because it wasn't spent wisely doesn't mean it wasn't spent.

More money in means more money available to spend (not all will be playing budget). Suspect much of the activity seen so far this summer is funded by the Checkatrade win.
 
Reactions: vow

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #119
skybluebeduff said:
Hence why we sold a player and brought in free transfers...
Click to expand...

And bought Jones...
 
Reactions: SkyBlueZack
S

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #120
skybluebeduff said:
Hence why we sold a player and brought in free transfers...
Click to expand...

Jones cost a fee. Ghadzev had played international football. Regarding the Maddison money, we don't know how much we were paid up front.

Edit. Nick beat me to it.
 
S

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #121
mark82 said:
Higher than expected attendances allowed Mowbray to spend in 2015/16 winter window. What he brought in was crap has beens who were overpriced (wage wise). Just because it wasn't spent wisely doesn't mean it wasn't spent.

More money in means more money available to spend (not all will be playing budget). Suspect much of the activity seen so far this summer is funded by the Checkatrade win.
Click to expand...

Also we have next to no income for June and July.
 

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #122
skybluebeduff said:
I would think Maddisons money helped rather than increased attendances. After all people harp on about how Maddisons money went into the club...

And yes, people saying increased attendances increases the budget are guessing, because they cannot provide proof of it.
Click to expand...

Maddison was sold on the last day of the transfer window. That would likely have gone into the summer budget, however, as we know, most money from sales will go into covering operating losses. The only reason we have been sustainable the last couple of years is transfer money coming in.
 

skybluebeduff

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #123
Nick said:
And bought Jones...
Click to expand...
That was in the summer wasn't it, before the sale of Maddsion. People are on about the transfers we made in the winter, and alleging that increased attendances was why we brought in the players.

Look just find proof of what people are claiming, that's all I originally said... There isn't any proof.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #124
skybluebeduff said:
Coventry City accounts show £700,000 profit but debts of £44m
Sorry wrong link lol
Click to expand...

So without player sales the income through the gates (and other income) is insufficient to cover the club's expenditure. Selling players to cover a deficit is bad news and completely unsustainable.
 

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #125
SkyBlueZack said:
Jones cost a fee. Ghadzev had played international football. Regarding the Maddison money, we don't know how much we were paid up front.

Edit. Nick beat me to it.
Click to expand...

Did we pay a fee for Reid or is he just expensive wage wise?
 

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #126
skybluebeduff said:
That was in the summer wasn't it, before the sale of Maddsion. People are on about the transfers we made in the winter, and alleging that increased attendances was why we brought in the players.

Look just find proof of what people are claiming, that's all I originally said... There isn't any proof.
Click to expand...

Nope, last summer after the sale of Maddison.
 
S

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #127
mark82 said:
Maddison was sold on the last day of the transfer window. That would likely have gone into the summer budget, however, as we know, most money from sales will go into covering operating losses. The only reason we have been sustainable the last couple of years is transfer money coming in.
Click to expand...

The only reason most clubs at L1 and L2 are sustainable. Just some of our fans expect no sales and transfers in. Sky and the PL have ruined football and distorted people's view on football.
 
Reactions: mark82

skybluebeduff

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #128
So if we start doing well, and are near the top come Christmas when the gates will rise over the festive period like they did 2015/2016, our budget will increase?

Alright then. Can't wait.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #129
skybluebeduff said:
That was in the summer wasn't it, before the sale of Maddsion. People are on about the transfers we made in the winter, and alleging that increased attendances was why we brought in the players.

Look just find proof of what people are claiming, that's all I originally said... There isn't any proof.
Click to expand...

No, it was after the sale of Maddison.

Nobody is saying the increased attendances were the very reason, it was in reply to that the season we were "flying high" the manager did bring in plenty of players, they will be costing money.
 
S

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #130
mark82 said:
Did we pay a fee for Reid or is he just expensive wage wise?
Click to expand...

He was a free I believe. Possible signing on fee. Definitely a top earner at the club.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #131
skybluebeduff said:
So if we start doing well, and are near the top come Christmas when the gates will rise over the festive period like they did 2015/2016, our budget will increase?

Alright then. Can't wait.
Click to expand...

It will depend on income / revenue surely and how we do outside of the 4 or 5 games we get a high attendance?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #132
SkyBlueZack said:
Nothing for a footballer? Or nothing for your average man/woman in the street?
Click to expand...

he said he was on a pound a week, (think footballers can't play for nothing), he just wanted to play. He said it at that evening he did down the Butts, though I wasn't there so that's come to me 2nd hand.
 
S

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #133
clint van damme said:
he said he was on a pound a week, (think footballers can't play for nothing), he just wanted to play. He said it at that evening he did down the Butts, though I wasn't there so that's come to me 2nd hand.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. The others can't have been on a £1 though. Surprised it didn't make the news.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #134
SkyBlueZack said:
The only reason most clubs at L1 and L2 are sustainable. Just some of our fans expect no sales and transfers in. Sky and the PL have ruined football and distorted people's view on football.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, people don't seem to get the concept that lower league clubs will be using player sales and any money it generates to run the club and a decent chunk of ticket money. All of this "why should the fans pay to run the club" is a bit random.

I'd love for there to be level playing field where there are very strict FFP rules, parachute payments don't help either.

People see the Man City's and Chelseas and think it should happen at lower league clubs, it's all well and good when people try but look at Leyton Orient who were paying people £20k a week in League One, a few on £5k - £8k a week too. How did that work out when the owner decided he didn't want to throw all his money in any more?
 

Adge

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #135
mark82 said:
It's a shame. Assume you've probably stopped enjoying it? If not, the only person it affects would be you. I refuse to give up something I enjoy because of Sisu. Not letting them rule my life.
Click to expand...
Yes I stopped enjoying it, but again like everyone else, am looking forward to the football season beginning. I'm not letting Sisu rule my life, I'm looking at away games only so I will still be getting my fix but am not investing (season tickets etc/club coaches/merchandise etc) in Ccfc anymore (which is owned by Sisu).
The straw that broke the camels back for me was Fisher at the Sbt meeting, as if things weren't bad enough at the time, brazen as you like,when asked about season tickets or lack of, saying that he will just be cutting the budget to suit. People still it seems,are happy to go along with that and it doesn't matter what these people do or say. Lets not forget 2 relegations, no ground, an academy that could possibly be at a school in the future, shares that had been in generations of families removed by them, taking the team out of Coventry, this is all Sisu's doing. No doubt Fisher was being honest but his attitude on that night and also Seppala's outside the court the other day tells its own story with regard to the fans or "customers" if you prefer.
But yes your right, it's a double edged sword for me as I still want to go-hence away games only, so I am not cutting off my nose to spite my face.:emoji_ok_hand:
 
S

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #136
Nick said:
That's the thing, people don't seem to get the concept that lower league clubs will be using player sales and any money it generates to run the club and a decent chunk of ticket money. All of this "why should the fans pay to run the club" is a bit random.

I'd love for there to be level playing field where there are very strict FFP rules, parachute payments don't help either.

People see the Man City's and Chelseas and think it should happen at lower league clubs, it's all well and good when people try but look at Leyton Orient who were paying people £20k a week in League One. How did that work out when the owner decided he didn't want to throw all his money in any more?
Click to expand...

Ah, but the owner should just walk away and let the next person do it. Rinse and repeat. Do keep up.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #137
SkyBlueZack said:
Ah, but the owner should just walk away and let the next person do it. Rinse and repeat. Do keep up.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, they throw money in and are expected to walk away then for the next fool to do it.

I'd much prefer living within our means, we would do with fan ownership anyway.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueZack

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #138
Adge said:
Yes I stopped enjoying it, but again like everyone else, am looking forward to the football season beginning. I'm not letting Sisu rule my life, I'm looking at away games only so I will still be getting my fix but am not investing (season tickets etc/club coaches/merchandise etc) in Ccfc anymore (which is owned by Sisu).
The straw that broke the camels back for me was Fisher at the Sbt meeting, as if things weren't bad enough at the time, brazen as you like,when asked about season tickets or lack of, saying that he will just be cutting the budget to suit. People still it seems,are happy to go along with that and it doesn't matter what these people do or say. Lets not forget 2 relegations, no ground, an academy that could possibly be at a school in the future, shares that had been in generations of families removed by them, taking the team out of Coventry, this is all Sisu's doing. No doubt Fisher was being honest but his attitude on that night and also Seppala's outside the court the other day tells its own story with regard to the fans or "customers" if you prefer.
But yes your right, it's a double edged sword for me as I still want to go-hence away games only, so I am not cutting off my nose to spite my face.:emoji_ok_hand:
Click to expand...

I like how you put the (which is owned by SISU) to justify the stance of actively starving CCFC of income

At least you just say it straight up though!

He said they would cut outgoings to suit income, which is what people have been saying for a long while would happen.
 

mark82

Super Moderator
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #139
skybluebeduff said:
So if we start doing well, and are near the top come Christmas when the gates will rise over the festive period like they did 2015/2016, our budget will increase?

Alright then. Can't wait.
Click to expand...

Potentially, if we need additions to kick on, I can see that happening. Unfortunately, without knowing the budget before and after we won't know. Maybe a question for Mark Robins after the January window if attendances are good.

Salaries at the club have continued to go down year on year as we have been moved towards the self sustainable model nut budget will certainly be set according to ticker sales. That is what puts most money in the bank.
 
S

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 26, 2017
  • #140
Adge said:
Yes I stopped enjoying it, but again like everyone else, am looking forward to the football season beginning. I'm not letting Sisu rule my life, I'm looking at away games only so I will still be getting my fix but am not investing (season tickets etc/club coaches/merchandise etc) in Ccfc anymore (which is owned by Sisu).
The straw that broke the camels back for me was Fisher at the Sbt meeting, as if things weren't bad enough at the time, brazen as you like,when asked about season tickets or lack of, saying that he will just be cutting the budget to suit. People still it seems,are happy to go along with that and it doesn't matter what these people do or say. Lets not forget 2 relegations, no ground, an academy that could possibly be at a school in the future, shares that had been in generations of families removed by them, taking the team out of Coventry, this is all Sisu's doing. No doubt Fisher was being honest but his attitude on that night and also Seppala's outside the court the other day tells its own story with regard to the fans or "customers" if you prefer.
But yes your right, it's a double edged sword for me as I still want to go-hence away games only, so I am not cutting off my nose to spite my face.:emoji_ok_hand:
Click to expand...

He did say he will cut the budget to suit, that is why people are saying NOPM doesn't work, a total boycott doesn't work. For the very reason you have said. Relegations happen, it's football. For the whole time I have supported the club we have been in a relegation battle, before and during SISU. No ground when they arrived, do I have to keep pointing that out? An academy you hammer at every opportunity despite it's success. Shares that the Messiah Elliott had helped collect but he's absolved of blame for some bizarre reason. Didn't Elliott also want to close the academy? Would that not be worse than an academy at a school? Why is it bad to have an academy at a school. Surely the school would benefit from the facilities too, could it not be argued it would integrate the club into the community more?

Oh and one more thing, were you not the person who made a crude remark about Haynes and his injury? Then you have a go at TF and his attitude because he said the club has to fund itself? I think you should look at your own attitude if it was you that made the remark.
Apologies if it wasn't you.
 
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